Are young people tech-savvy or tech-dependent?
00:00:00:03 - 00:00:29:00
James
Hello world and welcome to the podcast for educators passionate about computing and digital making. I'm James Robinson, a senior learning manager here at the Raspberry Pi Foundation and this is the third of three podcast episodes that will be releasing to accompany the recent issue of the Hello World magazine. The theme of that issue is digital literacy, asking what we actually mean by that term and how we can best teach the skills that young people need to use digital technologies effectively, safely and responsibly in the classroom.
00:00:29:02 - 00:00:49:03
James
On the podcast today, we're answering this question. All the young people who grew up with technology around them, so-called digital natives, truly tech savvy, or are they actually dependent on digital tools without understanding how they work? To discuss and debate that. I'm joined remotely by three guests. Welcome, everybody, and please introduce yourselves.
00:00:49:05 - 00:00:53:13
Nicole
Hi, I'm Nicole O'Connor, digital learning specialist at the. You know this.
00:00:53:15 - 00:01:00:07
Anna
Hi. I'm on a lockdown senior researcher at Haga University of Applied Sciences in Helsinki, Finland.
00:01:00:09 - 00:01:05:05
Sway
Hi, I'm Suoi Grantham and I am senior learning manager at the Raspberry Pi Foundation.
00:01:05:07 - 00:01:16:06
James
Super. Let's kick this conversation off with a little bit of a rapid fire question. So each of my panellists, what does the term digital native mean to you?
00:01:16:08 - 00:01:32:17
Anna
It has been this the assumption that since they were born with basically an iPhone or a technology in their hand, that they would automatically be very well equipped for the digital skills that are needed in the work life.
00:01:32:19 - 00:01:34:24
James
Cool. And Nicole, what does it mean to you?
00:01:35:01 - 00:01:47:19
Nicole
Maybe digitally native means, young person who has been exposed to technology is naturally going to be gifted in the skills, competence and fluency that they need to navigate future technologies.
00:01:47:21 - 00:01:50:04
James
Nice and sweaty. How about you?
00:01:50:06 - 00:02:07:06
Sway
Yeah. I think to me, a digital native is a label given to people who have been born with regular access to equipment which develop a unique skill set. We might call it digital literacy, where those who were not exposed in that way do not have that skillset.
00:02:07:08 - 00:02:10:11
James
Great. And is it a helpful term, Nicole?
00:02:10:13 - 00:02:37:05
Nicole
No. It leaves at least a lot of nuances and the individual ality of of of people. So when you use a blanket term, in any case you're always going to have exceptions to it. But I think with technology and anything digital, it's far too grey an area to just blanket term everyone as a digital natives. And there's there's far too many ways and privilege and that access and impacts this.
00:02:37:05 - 00:02:39:07
Nicole
And we just can't take it for granted.
00:02:39:09 - 00:02:40:18
James
And, Swain.
00:02:40:20 - 00:03:02:05
Sway
I think I'm going to go with useful. For whom? I think useful for young people. Not so much. There is that blanket terminology. I think for those people that are a little bit nervous, it justifies that they feel behind in certain spaces. And that can be a great starting place to say, well, that therefore you need to build up your skills.
00:03:02:07 - 00:03:07:01
Sway
But, I wouldn't want to do that at the detriment of the children and young people.
00:03:07:03 - 00:03:09:15
James
And what are your thoughts on the same question? Is it helpful?
00:03:09:20 - 00:03:42:04
Anna
I'm going to go ahead and say yes. I believe it's helpful as a conversation starter. However, we're noticing that, digital natives, some sometimes translates into digital naive when it comes to the digital skills that are needed to perform the work tasks. And even if our young people might be truly digitally native, it doesn't necessarily mean that they would be that in the context of work.
00:03:42:06 - 00:04:08:00
Anna
I believe it opens the door to have that discussion about our world today. What type of skills access, and confidence we need in order to operate in this digital world. So as a conversation starter, yes, I believe it's a useful term which raises I believe, a lot of, also feelings, thoughts and debate.
00:04:08:02 - 00:04:22:06
James
That's really interesting. So I think where you're coming from is very much a sort of workplace kind of lends to this. Nicole and Swae, what are your thoughts on this? Are there other aspects of this term that are sort of problematic, maybe in the workplace, but also beyond it?
00:04:22:08 - 00:04:42:03
Sway
So I think, the point that's made, is that all tasks on equal and so when we're saying digital native, we're assuming that everyone is using technology in the same way and that that is the same way, they will then need to use it in the future in education, in the workplace, and arguably for the rest of their lives.
00:04:42:05 - 00:05:07:17
Sway
But actually, when you dig in to what young people especially are doing on devices, there is often a consumption angle. So they might be watching video playing things that someone else has created more so than a creation angle, and then using the technology to solve problems and meet an end. And the other point I wanted to mention was what devices they are using.
00:05:07:17 - 00:05:42:17
Sway
So there is, a common trend in the UK that when you're younger, you're using touchscreen devices like phones and tablets, and at some point you have to transition to laptops and other things. And I know with some work we've been doing in Kenya with the education system, there, a lot of their day to day exposure is using mobile technologies, but then when they try and use a laptop for the first time, that's a whole other skill set that requires a whole different level of understanding in both how you interact with it, but what it can do and the functionality.
00:05:42:21 - 00:05:53:18
Sway
So this new, notion of a digital native, meaning you can use absolutely everything in any way possible is just so broad that it's very, very difficult to apply.
00:05:53:22 - 00:06:03:01
James
And Nicole, what does this look like for you in Northern Ireland? Because we I know we've spoken before about like disparities between levels of technology that people might be exposed to. Do you want to talk about your context?
00:06:03:03 - 00:06:30:17
Nicole
Yeah. So I think just on this point there, like I've seen, I'm sure many teachers know the pain of when children start taking digital assessments. And they left them myself and put it on the screen because they're not used to then transferring from touch screen devices to, mice and keyboards. So again, that that notion and I also agree that it's a mess for digital natives because I spend a lot of my time doing teacher training, going out and doing digital workshops.
00:06:30:19 - 00:06:48:14
Nicole
And I have often heard the slightly older teacher go, oh, I near retirement. I don't need to learn this. More often than not, I find then the older teachers are the ones who have the skills behind them because they've evolved with technology over time and they're the ones that they know how to assemble, search, they know how to use it critically.
00:06:48:16 - 00:07:06:15
Nicole
Whereas those younger teachers who have maybe come from the consumption background for a lot of it and then suddenly have to apply it and work, they actually need just as much upskilling as everybody else there. So it's not always it's like the young people are instantly going to be techie.
00:07:06:17 - 00:07:31:18
James
I think something that we've could have or maybe hinted at as well, but we haven't talked about, is that the term digital natives assumes maybe that, all young people or people that are exposed to technology at an early age are being exposed in similar ways or have sort of equality of access. And actually, I think there is huge disparity in the level of exposure and opportunity to, to sort of explore technology.
00:07:31:20 - 00:07:55:18
Nicole
Yeah. So there's there's kind of like two prongs to this. One, you have the digital poverty issue where, just some families don't have access to Wi-Fi, never mind to actual devices. Or it's a shared device, for the entire family. And that's maybe prioritised for parents who are working and things like that, or for the older siblings who are doing more, exam courses, and coursework.
00:07:55:20 - 00:08:19:10
Nicole
But then you also have the issue of parental choice. So some parents choose not to expose their children to any screen time. And that also creates a digital gap, a digital skills gap. So even if you did believe in digital natives and you thought, yeah, children are going to come into school with all of these skills, we can't assume that they have access to it, either through digital poverty or through parental choice.
00:08:19:12 - 00:08:38:08
Nicole
And then we also have the fact that even in classrooms, even when children come into school, depending on the teachers confidence of technology, depending on the access of devices on down the school, then children aren't getting the same exposure from post to post code, but also from classroom to classroom with technology, so we definitely can't make any assumptions.
00:08:38:10 - 00:09:01:15
Sway
What I've seen a lot of in early years education. So pre five in the in England, and even into key stage stage one year 6 or 7 year olds is that it's, it's very challenging like hands off to all those teachers that manage a class of 30, five, four, five, six year olds on devices. It's a really difficult thing to do.
00:09:01:17 - 00:09:29:12
Sway
You've also got this skills barrier yourself, and you also are very nervous about it to then look at these, these children that you need to sit down long enough and have expensive equipment that you don't want to break, is is quite scary. And I think what's really it, what's really important is school is our main equaliser, where we have things like parental choice that we've talked about, where we've got lack of access due to infrastructure and financial reasons.
00:09:29:13 - 00:09:50:03
Sway
School is our place to remedy that and to give opportunities to those who haven't had it. And ensure they have those skills that they need for the rest of their education and going forward. So the earlier we can get that into the education system, the better. And I know that that is sometimes controversial because the young children having screen time debate comes up again.
00:09:50:05 - 00:10:26:22
Sway
But if we are not at least getting them to log on to a computer independently and in a moderated and safe way, having exposure, knowing what devices can do, how they can help us, we aren't going to mitigate that gap, and it's just going to grow and grow as they get older and older. So I think, yeah, I would take that as my plea that even though I and I have been that teacher with 30 year ones who can't type their own name yet trying to get them to log on, battle through it, because once you've done that, you've given them a skill for life that is really, really important in the
00:10:26:22 - 00:10:27:12
Sway
modern age.
00:10:27:16 - 00:10:58:23
Anna
I find the examples that Nicole and Swae are giving a truly fascinating. And, it actually inspired me to think, you know, what are our aims for education schools? So in school, we want to prepare children for, for life, for happy, healthy lives, for, of course, to develop the type of competence that will, inspire them and help them to find, their own professional calling and to succeed also in the professional environment.
00:10:59:00 - 00:11:27:14
Anna
And I would like to draw a parallel now, because of my own work, it has focussed for the past five years on artificial intelligence. And how do we adopt that, especially in the workplace context? And, what I see happening there with this new digital tools that we are seeing entering our world, we cannot longer talk about, a single learning curve, which is to, gradually rises.
00:11:27:14 - 00:12:01:18
Anna
But we talk about multiple learning curves, individual learning curves, because what happens when you face, a technology like artificial intelligence, each of us are individuals, so we interact with it in different ways. And in that context, the first question that James posed to us about equity, it's no longer a question necessarily about that. You have it is rather, what will each individual student need in order to, get somewhere with that technology?
00:12:01:21 - 00:12:16:11
Anna
So, James, this term digital native, I don't think that we should, just, forget and let go of it, but it's just it has so, so many more dimensions to it in the today's context.
00:12:16:13 - 00:12:34:02
Nicole
Along, like, digitally literate and illiterate. You know, we we don't we don't assume that children are slang and the language that they are growing up with before they enter school because they still have so much vocabulary to access, they still have so much enrichment ahead of them and and skills to learn with reading, writing, talking and listen and so on.
00:12:34:02 - 00:12:50:09
Nicole
So forth. But they're on their journey to be fluent in that, in that language. And I think it's the same with technology. So yes, they might have had some exposure, but over time they need to learn the skills to be digitally literate. They need to learn how to be critical thinkers, discerning users of. But they must have.
00:12:50:10 - 00:13:10:23
Nicole
They need to learn how to be aware of data privacy and how to be secure using technologies. They're not even close to that. But, you know, whenever they're, entering school or until it's formally and explicitly taught to them. So perhaps the literacy, part, this is where I'm going more than just needs, you know, they're on their journey to be leaders.
00:13:11:00 - 00:13:34:02
James
I think that's really interesting because I think so. I've got a, a child who's just entered reception and I think, you know, before they start school, there's a lot of focus on, like, can you have conversations about mathematics when you're, when you're in the supermarket, look at prices. Can you read words? We do all of these sort of preparatory activities to help our young learners make sure that they are entering school with the right level of literacy and numeracy.
00:13:34:05 - 00:13:49:21
James
But do we have the same care and thought when it comes to the digital exposure they have, or do we just kind of give them the devices and assume they'll figure it out? And I think there's there is this sort of scale of literacy, which I think is really interesting. How best can we support them learning those skills?
00:13:49:23 - 00:14:12:21
Sway
Yeah. So I think it's really interesting in these dimensions that we're talking about, because I think another dimension that is often mislabelled digital native is digital confidence, and that is the ability to pick up a device or to open an application and press buttons and see what happen. It's not tied to age or stage per se. But I think thinking about how do we build confidence in subjects.
00:14:12:21 - 00:14:35:00
Sway
So we need a robust knowledge of what something can do and how it does that. And I don't mean all the intricate things, but I'm not going to choose to use a device if I don't have any concept of how it can help me and what it can do. So even just modelling in the first instance, it's not about here's a piece of software, click here and then click here.
00:14:35:00 - 00:14:54:22
Sway
And then click here where you're prescribing how to do a task. It's like, okay, here are your toolbars. This one here has some shapes on it. What might they do if you clicked on one. You think they might draw a shape okay let's try that. Like let's click it and you just click on the screen once and nothing happens because you need to click and drag.
00:14:55:02 - 00:15:15:10
Sway
Well this gives them an understanding that the first time I tried it didn't work. That was fine. That helps build their confidence that I don't know when I open a new application, how it works, but I can try it, try it again and you start to build their skills that way. So it's a mixture of little and often.
00:15:15:12 - 00:15:27:23
Sway
You can't do it once and say it's done, modelling the right approaches and giving them opportunities to explore, not always telling them the quote, right way to achieve an outcome or do a task, would be where I would start.
00:15:28:00 - 00:15:41:08
James
That's great. So thank you, Nicole. So so you just talked about the importance of digital confidence. And and I talked about new digital tools. Like I, how best do you think we should be teaching those skills or giving young people confidence in those tools?
00:15:41:12 - 00:16:00:19
Nicole
That's a great term that I haven't actually been able to land on before. Is actually maybe they're just digitally confident. Because the first piece of advice I give to teachers here maybe feel nervous about introducing technology in the classroom is I was like, just facilitate a just like, play, just put out the tools during play. Because, I referenced the process of design.
00:16:00:19 - 00:16:23:24
Nicole
Squiggle by Damien Newman. Hi. We have all of this chaos at the start was where researching, gathering insights and then to present to flow and focus and clarity and that comes I look at that as play the first bit when we are just hitting buttons to see what happens and praying that there's an undo button. But the the point that spikes out of it as well about modelling best practices, I think is so important.
00:16:23:24 - 00:16:55:00
Nicole
Did all the time for my pupils, especially for any learner should I had a specific left to see difficulties. So even just showing how I can use dictation tools, text to speech tools, I can look up things, do typing, feedback, all of that. I would of model that as a classroom teacher without necessarily needing it for myself, but just modelling that like, hey, I'm just using technology to help me because then that removes any stigma or barriers of pupils who actually then rely on us and find that that technology is essential for them accessing the curriculum.
00:16:55:02 - 00:17:21:06
Nicole
So those type of ways are really like subtle ways that you can you can read and end, just, you know, without too much formal instruction, whenever it comes. Then to classroom time, obviously, we have whichever curriculum you're following in your school, but you also have to work with what devices you have. So, I had to rely on cloud based tools that would work on every device, and everyone would have similar experience.
00:17:21:08 - 00:17:37:06
Nicole
But it was also very important to me then that pupils weren't just used to only being on one type of device, that they did rotate to the other devices the next week, even if that meant a bit of frustration that they were on a slightly older device. But I got this term from the course director at Ulster University.
00:17:37:06 - 00:18:02:06
Nicole
Cool. And Beverly McCormick, about this concept of, being device agnostic so that you have transferable skills to apply to any device, but then also to be software fluent or operating systems fluent, so that you don't turn into me. Starting my first day on my PGCE going, I'd use pages. I've only used Microsoft Word my entire life and then completely thrown off for a week trying to learn a new thing.
00:18:02:06 - 00:18:06:19
Nicole
You know that I've got those transferable skills that apply no matter what.
00:18:06:21 - 00:18:36:21
James
I'm glad that we've given Beverley a shout out because, Beverley is great, but something else that I think teachers and educators should and can be modelling is vulnerability. Like not knowing everything and being exploratory in front of the learners. That's really important. I'm coming to you next. I wonder if there are maybe better or more suitable frameworks that we could use to describe digital engagement, particularly those that maybe help learners explore through play and curiosity, and not just passive consumption.
00:18:36:21 - 00:18:39:10
James
If you come across anything in your research.
00:18:39:12 - 00:19:09:00
Anna
Yes, I have, of course. And, in fact, one of the term that comes to my mind, also listening to Nicole is, agency. So, when we talk about technologies, yes, it's important to, test, the technologies that are out there to teach students, to use them to build their digital confidence as well. At the same time, it's all about the relationship that we're teaching.
00:19:09:02 - 00:19:41:18
Anna
The children to, to have with technologies. Because of course, we know that, in addition to those product skills, we do have the consideration of how to balance the screen time. And in terms of access of technology, you know, there is an interesting initiative in Finland that allow the teacher to, forbid, let's say mobile phones in a classroom and, give the freedom to the schools also to do that, even during, during breaks.
00:19:41:23 - 00:19:57:14
James
And I think we see a lot of new stories, you know, in around the world about, you know, exposure to screen time or devices in school. And I think one of the challenges there is that I don't think it's like a binary on. So we don't just say, well, let's take all technology out the classroom or let's do more.
00:19:57:14 - 00:20:17:10
James
I think it is that sort of case by case. What's the problem? We're trying to solve? What's the learning we're trying to facilitate here? Where do we use this sort of edtech? How do we I think it's being it's much more selective and much more sort of, and it's a whole it's a whole set of skill, a discipline, and probably the whole episode.
00:20:17:10 - 00:20:38:14
James
So I'm not going to like, open up a whole can of worms that we can explore. But like, it's a really important, point that is far more nuanced. So I'm going to come to you next, because this, that what that comment from Anna kind of leads nicely into this. How do we as educators are either in the classroom or developing future resources?
00:20:38:16 - 00:20:52:18
James
How do we decide what digital skills are going to be important for young people's futures, and what are the things that perhaps we should be emphasising or developing now? So it's a really small question for you to answer in a couple of minutes. Way over to you.
00:20:52:20 - 00:20:59:23
Sway
Yeah. I mean, if we if we had a perfect sentence for that answer would probably be millionaires because wicked, wicked market that.
00:20:59:23 - 00:21:02:20
James
What I was hoping for. So I sorry.
00:21:02:22 - 00:21:23:11
Sway
What is important is that we, we think about a few few different aspects to it. So one is what do they need to know now to get through the context they're in right now to increase, we need digital skills to be able to access my, doctors if I need a doctor's appointment. We are no longer allowed to phone them.
00:21:23:11 - 00:21:45:14
Sway
Is forbidden. You have to go online and book an appointment. But there's increasingly a digital demand to be able to access vital services. So at a very baseline, to be able to, function in this world and access, things that, that they might need, what skills are needed for that? So we're talking about a lot of that being device agnostic.
00:21:45:18 - 00:22:17:15
Sway
Also, how many people are stuck using an iPhone for the rest of their lives because they don't dare leave Apple being able to use devices to access services? And what skills do those require? So web browser searching for information, understanding misinformation and data privacy we've already mentioned, but I think what we're also talking about is acknowledging that the skills we have right now, or the need that there is right now in the world, if we're talking about a four year old, by the time they reach the workplace, there's going to be a whole load of new digital skills that they're going to need.
00:22:17:17 - 00:22:44:02
Sway
We have seen this most recently with the introduction of AI technologies and lots of people trying to upskill in that space. So what we don't want is to teach them the very fundamental, you have to do it this way. We want to teach them that metacognition, not knowing how to learn that digital confidence. So it's like, right, I have never used AI, but I've heard it can do this thing and I'm going to have a go and see if I can make it do that thing.
00:22:44:08 - 00:23:06:04
Sway
And it's really about building up their experience at using lots of different things. Now I use things lightly, but we could be talking devices, we could be talking software and operating systems, giving them as much exposure to different contexts, and shows that when they come across a new context, which they inevitably will do, there is no way of us sheltering them from that.
00:23:06:06 - 00:23:13:03
Sway
They have got the skills that they need to be able to be successful. In that space.
00:23:13:05 - 00:23:33:16
James
That's great. So I thank you. Nicole, I was going to come to you because I think we've been we've had a conversation recently about, curriculum in, in, in Northern Ireland. I know that that's something that's being reformed over there. What do you think the role of curriculum is in, in this space of helping learners develop the appropriate digital skills that are going to prepare them for their future?
00:23:33:18 - 00:23:56:22
Nicole
When we get our curriculum reform and live and and in in the skills, I will, I will expect to see much of what's already grade up on our curriculum. A lot of it is focussed on transferable skills, and it's asking children to create films and animations. But it's not saying collect this, it's talking about it as a bigger picture because also the technology to solve also rapidly.
00:23:56:22 - 00:24:23:11
Nicole
So there's no point being that you know particular about it because the ink would be, still wet with by the time outside of date. But where the curriculum can come in handy here is for actually talking about some of the non-digital aspects that are essential, for being, you know, a digital citizen and a digital worker and a digital maker, such as the thinking skills and the partial capabilities.
00:24:23:11 - 00:24:43:22
Nicole
So we've already touched a little bit on critical thinking. But also when we talk about arts, that's it. Clear communication. We know right now that high efficient communication is needed for prompting by eventually, you know, AI is going to get good enough that we don't need to house like perfect prompt frameworks to get the best result. It'll it'll evolve over time from that.
00:24:43:22 - 00:25:00:18
Nicole
But at the moment, that's what we're encouraging people to be is very succinct in their communication. You know, did they put their adjectives even in the right place? I got primary savants excited about prepositions last year because of I like. I did not expect that to happen. It wasn't on my bingo card, but we were developing digital skills.
00:25:00:18 - 00:25:31:12
Nicole
Yes, but also your communication skills. But also there's there's a massive difference between urban and rural skills. And also, you know, for families there, I took part in the women's Parliament this last few weeks ago. And, you know, that really highlighted to me some of the issues for rural women being able to navigate the world is very challenging whenever you don't have the digital skills there, but with the curriculum maybe enforcing and saying that that's statutory for children to learn this, this and this, then that, that's the great equaliser.
00:25:31:14 - 00:25:37:02
James
So do you think that young people, tech dependent or tech savvy.
00:25:37:04 - 00:26:08:09
Anna
Old age maybe where maybe they and we are all on the continuum of those two things? My research that we did together with a team here in Finland, among the knowledge workers, it has showed that there are, three super competencies that sets apart those who are, very excited about new tech and are able to adopt it easier, quicker and better as opposed to those who are not.
00:26:08:11 - 00:26:39:19
Anna
And those competencies are proactivity, job crafting. So the ability and the desire to craft your own work tasks and to shape your own landscape of work. And the third one was, self-efficacy, referring to, your ability to and your belief in how you're able to cope with the difficult situations and how good you are at facing facing those.
00:26:39:21 - 00:27:06:19
Anna
So in terms of fresh research and also, I think tying nicely this concept of digital confidence, those are some of the skills that we see are making the difference. And maybe that's also what helps to, make the difference and bring that digital dependent more towards the tech savvy without losing that, digitally, native way of dealing with technologies.
00:27:06:21 - 00:27:25:00
James
So, thank you. I it is really interesting to hear about the three super competencies that I think what would be really great is to kind of get some final thoughts from each of you on this topic. So, we'll go to Nicole first. Nicole, should we say clear the term digital native? And how do we help young people become more digitally literate?
00:27:25:02 - 00:27:57:14
Nicole
Yeah, I think I'm more convinced than ever to put digital native in the digital confidence probably slots and that are there for me because rather than assuming that young people are naturally tech savvy, I think what we what we need to do then is to provide structured, inclusive digital education for all ages. That doesn't just start from an foundation stage or nursery or reception that actually needs come in, on off the skill as well, because they maybe haven't had that experience yet.
00:27:57:16 - 00:28:15:10
Nicole
So education, critical thinking, all the thinking skills that we talked about and communication, if they are delivered during this exposure is that children have, then I think they're going to be in a really good place to access the digital skills that we're intentionally and explicitly teaching them.
00:28:15:12 - 00:28:18:24
James
Great. Thanks. Nicole. Anna, what what what what about you? Same questions.
00:28:19:04 - 00:28:50:01
Anna
Oh, James, I think Nicole said it all, but she also inspired me to keep in mind other dimensions to this discussion. And of course, in the world where being digitally literate, it's no longer an option. It is. It is a must, for me personally, in both in personal life and at work, everything starts with, values with the, working with also technology from the right values.
00:28:50:01 - 00:29:20:21
Anna
Because we've had this, fascinating discussion today. And, a huge element of it is, of course, also the ethics in the use of technologies, new technologies. I so if we installed the right type of values into student, then eventually that will, translate into, a healthy relationship with technologies and with the ethical use of new technologies in their work and in their lives.
00:29:20:23 - 00:29:24:00
James
Thanks. And that's great. And, sway over to you.
00:29:24:02 - 00:29:53:01
Sway
Yeah. I mean, I definitely, obviously everything that's come before, I think the term digital native does a disservice to children and young people, both in minimising those who are really keen. And I've put a lot of time and effort into developing their skills, some of that through the privilege of access that they've got and the expectation. But what it does potentially do is make certain adults feel more reassured where they don't have that digital confidence, but that is masking the problem.
00:29:53:01 - 00:30:16:11
Sway
What we need to do is give those adults or digital immigrants the digital confidence that they need to be able to access the tools and in fact, in turn, that will benefit the digital natives or the younger children. I think in terms of what else can we do in this space? The big takeaway I've seen since the move, with AI becoming much more prominent, is talk about it.
00:30:16:13 - 00:30:32:19
Sway
You have to get to a certain level of digital competence before it becomes something you think about using. And if we put that in an AI context, there are lots of things every day that would benefit me. But often I don't think of AI first because I've got all these other strategies I'm used to using to solve that problem.
00:30:32:21 - 00:30:52:08
Sway
And so the more you hear, oh, I did this and oh, I looked this up and oh, I, I created a quick thing, a quick invitation for a birthday party. And that is not just with the children and young people we work with. All the adults in our lives could benefit from knowing that technology could help them solve that problem.
00:30:52:14 - 00:31:10:11
Sway
And that doesn't mean you have to be an evangelist trying to convert everyone. Technology isn't always the right answer, but what it does mean is the more you can say, oh, I did this using technology, you will benefit like one of the person that hears you going, oh, I've never thought of doing that. I might think about that next time.
00:31:10:16 - 00:31:22:00
Sway
And particularly where exposure isn't an option due to access to equipment. And that will mean when you do have access to that equipment, you have this array of different options you can choose from.
00:31:22:02 - 00:31:28:05
James
Sadly, we need to wrap up the conversation there. This has been a really fantastic conversation. Thank you all for joining me.
00:31:28:07 - 00:31:40:21
Anna
This this was such a interesting discussion. Thank you so much. It was such a pleasure also to, to to be here with you. And I feel like I've also learned something new. So that is also a good sign.
00:31:40:23 - 00:31:48:21
Sway
It's great to, to be a part of this. It's been really interesting to hear different perspectives and how we're all on the same journey and working towards the same thing. So I really enjoyed it.
00:31:48:23 - 00:31:53:09
Nicole
It was a joy to chat with Sway and Anna as well. So thank you kindly.
00:31:53:11 - 00:32:22:11
James
We'd love to hear your thoughts on this topic. Do you think the term digital native is still a useful one? And what area of digital literacy is most important for your learners? You can get in touch with us on email. We're podcast@hallowell.cc and hallowell.cc is where you can go to read the new issue of the Hallowell Magazine. You can read the digital version there for free, and if you'd like a physical copy and you're based in the UK, you can subscribe to have a print copy delivered directly to your door for free as well.
00:32:22:13 - 00:32:31:11
James
We hope you find the Hallowell Magazine and podcast uplifting and useful, and that our content really helps you engage and educate young people in computing. We'll see you soon. Bye.