lilzz
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Why the boot code.bin and Start.elf aren't open sourced?

Thu Oct 30, 2014 6:40 pm

The whole Pi project is for learning. Why need to cover them up?

fruitoftheloom
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Re: Why the boot code.bin and Start.elf aren't open sourced?

Thu Oct 30, 2014 6:42 pm

Broadcom Intellectual Property Rights
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mahjongg
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Re: Why the boot code.bin and Start.elf aren't open sourced?

Thu Oct 30, 2014 6:56 pm

Why the boot code.bin and Start.elf aren't open sourced?
Because the Raspberry PI foundation doesn't own this code, they cannot give it away. They also cannot buy it.
Plus it isn't really relevant for learning to code.

lilzz
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Re: Why the boot code.bin and Start.elf aren't open sourced?

Thu Oct 30, 2014 7:09 pm

fruitoftheloom wrote:Broadcom Intellectual Property Rights
It's nothing more than init their chipset SOC, broadcom's business is selling chipsets. No point in hiding those code. They got no use outside of the specific chipset.

In fact, most companies give away their chipset specific driver codes so to enable widespread usage of those chipsets.

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Re: Why the boot code.bin and Start.elf aren't open sourced?

Thu Oct 30, 2014 7:14 pm

The code runs on the GPU, which has a closely guarded architecture, its does NOT run on the ARM.
Exposing the code might give others the chance to study actual GPU code, which is something Broadcom definitely does not want, and will do anything to prevent.

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DougieLawson
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Re: Why the boot code.bin and Start.elf aren't open sourced?

Thu Oct 30, 2014 7:21 pm

lilzz wrote:The whole Pi project is for learning. Why need to cover them up?
Why does the code need to be open sourced, it's function is clearly defined and the parameters you can pass in /boot/config.txt are well documented. Bootcode.bin gets the GPU running start*.elf gets the kernel loaded and running on the ARM.

Is the UEFI boot loader on your laptop open sourced?
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ShiftPlusOne
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Re: Why the boot code.bin and Start.elf aren't open sourced?

Thu Oct 30, 2014 8:06 pm

There's closed source firmware running on your sd card, graphics card, HDD, SDD and lots of other hardware.

I do like that the pi is an exception. The firmware is right there on the sd card, rather than hidden away inside the SoC. You get a datasheet for most of the peripherals (enough to write/port an OS). You get a manual for the 3D core (enough to take advantage of hardware acceleration for 3D and other applications). You get the source code for everything that runs on ARM as well. The reverse engineering effort on the firmware has gone unhindered as well and you now have enough information to write your own bootcode.bin and start.elf. The tools and information to do that is there.

If start.elf is 'just init code' then you should be able to disassemble it (if it's legal for you to do so) and write your own bootloader. However, there's much more to it. There are proprietary parts licensed from parties who's business depends on being able to sell those licenses. Why would they give it away? Alternatively, why would broadcom or the foundation risk getting sued by releasing things they don't have the right to release?

I would love to live in a world where things are simpler, but it's just not the case.

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Re: Why the boot code.bin and Start.elf aren't open sourced?

Thu Oct 30, 2014 10:34 pm

lilzz wrote:The whole Pi project is for learning. Why need to cover them up?
Consider the counter-argument: when you get the average secondary school student sufficiently fluent in computer science to point at the "binary blob" sections of the firmware, having been brought up on Python and collaborative development methods, and exclaim "why can't I see what's inside these?" - MISSION ACCOMPLISHED.

As ShiftPlusOne said, there is an innumerable number of devices that contain arbitrary programmable logic, the insides of which will never be publicly released. The average automobile has a scary number of lines of code in it, nowadays. One would hope that the realisation that there's a binary blob that is necessary to boot the Pi is an adequate catalyst for open-sourcing the washing machine*.

*disclaimer: I have a washing machine that's microprocessor-controlled. I have no natural inclination to make it play Für Elise.
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