Why not VGA on RPi

[nightmare64]

I have a simple question: why there is not VGA on the RPI?
That is a question i have to answer, for a school project.

NightMare

[jamesh]

There are many many posts on the subject on the forum, from a couple of years ago - Google is your friend.

[ShiftPlusOne]

Given that it's for school, I am not going to answer the question directly. But these facts should help: The pi has to meet a price point. The main chip on the pi is able to output HDMI without the need for any additional chips. VGA requires a lot of 5v analog signals.

[Burngate]

Some-one* here on the forum has as his signature a quote from an American politician** along the lines of "Never answer the question asked, rather answer the one you wish you were asked"

So you could start by answering the questions "why would a purchaser want VGA?" and "would the addition of VGA advance the aims of the maker?"

*Joe Schmoe
**Robert S. McNamara

[DougieLawson]

I think that it's more to do with the shift away from analog TVs to digital TVs (and digital broadcasting) and with HDMI becoming ubiquitous the cost of HDMI has come down.

We've moved on from CRTs to flat screens and now in most houses you'd have more chance of finding a TV with HDMI than with VGA. We have five TVs all except the oldest one have HDMI. Even my Android tablet can emit HDMI.

It is all an excellent thing, it's much easier to read 1080p than 480p. It's the difference between the WII and the XBox One / PS4.

If the original poster insists on VGA he'll have to invest in the HDMI to VGA adapters or will have to invest in new screens.

[fruitoftheloom]

I have a simple question: why there is not VGA on the RPI?
That is a question i have to answer, for a school project.

NightMare

As stated price point, VGA is analog and requires consderable electronics to achieve a VGA output, this would make the board bigger and make the cost of the product higher.

A school can buy in bulk and DVi Monitors ex-corporate stock are cheap.........

[plugwash]

We've moved on from CRTs to flat screens and now in most houses you'd have more chance of finding a TV with HDMI than with VGA. We have five TVs all except the oldest one have HDMI. Even my Android tablet can emit HDMI.

Unfortunately bottom of the barrel LCD monitors are still VGA only. So if your computer lab was set up by people who buy bottom of the barrel products you have a bit of a problem.

You can pick up used monitors with DVI for next to nothing but that can be awkward in some situations (beuracracy and second hand purchasing often don't fit together very well) and you need a car because most of the cheap offers are collect in person only.

[jamesh]

We've moved on from CRTs to flat screens and now in most houses you'd have more chance of finding a TV with HDMI than with VGA. We have five TVs all except the oldest one have HDMI. Even my Android tablet can emit HDMI.

Unfortunately bottom of the barrel LCD monitors are still VGA only. So if your computer lab was set up by people who buy bottom of the barrel products you have a bit of a problem.

You can pick up used monitors with DVI for next to nothing but that can be awkward in some situations (beuracracy and second hand purchasing often don't fit together very well) and you need a car because most of the cheap offers are collect in person only.

Are there really still some VGA only LCD's for sale out there? Weird since they actually require more electronics that digital in ones...!

[Joe Schmoe]

Are there really still some VGA only LCD's for sale out there? Weird since they actually require more electronics that digital in ones...!

I think the narrative is that electronics are free, but connectors cost money.

So, if you are going for both minimum cost and VGA capability, then including the electronics to convert to VGA (and not offering HDMI or DVI or anything other than VGA) is the way to go.

[jamesh]

Are there really still some VGA only LCD's for sale out there? Weird since they actually require more electronics that digital in ones...!

I think the narrative is that electronics are free, but connectors cost money.

So, if you are going for both minimum cost and VGA capability, then including the electronics to convert to VGA (and not offering HDMI or DVI or anything other than VGA) is the way to go.

Hmm, good point. Sad, but true.

[plugwash]

Are there really still some VGA only LCD's for sale out there?

I'm afraid so, I just went to all of the suppliers I regularlly use for computer bits, went to the monitors section sorted by price and picked the first result that was in-stock (prices shown inc VAT and rounded to nearest pound)

http://www.dabs.com/products/edge10-18- ... html?src=3 <-- VGA only £63
http://www.cclonline.com/product/123190 ... s/MON2323/ <-- VGA only £65
http://www.scan.co.uk/products/195-asus ... vesa-black <-- DVI+VGA £75
http://www.microdirect.co.uk/Home/Produ ... -e950Swdak <-- DVI+VGA £72
http://www.uk.insight.com/en-gb/product ... 4-00000001 <-- VGA only £66
http://cpc.farnell.com/aoc/e970swn/moni ... dp/SB05292 <-- VGA only £72

Weird since they actually require more electronics that digital in ones...!

I suspect the problem is that a VGA+DVI monitor requires more parts than a VGA only one and they don't want to risk the customer backlash from making a DVI only one.

[FTrevorGowen]

Are there really still some VGA only LCD's for sale out there?

I'm afraid so, I just went to all of the suppliers I regularlly use for computer bits, went to the monitors section sorted by price and picked the first result that was in-stock (prices shown inc VAT and rounded to nearest pound)
http://www.dabs.com/products/edge10-18- ... html?src=3 <-- VGA only £63
http://www.cclonline.com/product/123190 ... s/MON2323/ <-- VGA only £65
http://www.scan.co.uk/products/195-asus ... vesa-black <-- DVI+VGA £75
http://www.microdirect.co.uk/Home/Produ ... -e950Swdak <-- DVI+VGA £72
http://www.uk.insight.com/en-gb/product ... 4-00000001 <-- VGA only £66
http://cpc.farnell.com/aoc/e970swn/moni ... dp/SB05292 <-- VGA only £72

Weird since they actually require more electronics that digital in ones...!

I suspect the problem is that a VGA+DVI monitor requires more parts than a VGA only one and they don't want to risk the customer backlash from making a DVI only one.

Both my daughter's and my own netbook's only have VGA output's for an external, larger display - not sure if that's still the case for newer devices (ie. less than ~2 years old). Whilst I still have a few VGA only monitors/TV's around (useful for testing an HDMI-to-VGA converter ), I've found the VGA+DVI combination very useful and share one of such with my netbook and (one of) three Pi's via a 3-port HDMI switch. (My other, "the first", Pi is mounted on the back of said monitor but run "headless").
Trev.

[drgeoff]

Back to the question which was originally asked.

The chip in the RPi was originally targetted at mobile phones with cameras. To display the pictures, the phones would be connected to TVs. Almost every TV has a composite video input. Almost every modern TV has an HDMI input. A VGA input on TVs has never been close to universal to the same extent as composite and HDMI.

Also, though I'm not sure if it's chicken or egg, I don't think there has ever been a widely used miniature connector for VGA that is commensurate with the dimensions of a mobile phone.

And finally, VGA requires delivering several signals of 1 volt peal to peak into 75 ohm loads. That is not an insignificant amount of power to take from a mobile's battery.

[hippy]

I think that it's more to do with the shift away from analog TVs to digital TVs (and digital broadcasting) and with HDMI becoming ubiquitous the cost of HDMI has come down.

I would disagree. That's why it 's not a fatal omission but the primary reason is the Pi SoC doesn't support VGA. It would cost money to add VGA support and require more PCB real estate, and that's not desirable nor necessary given support for composite and HDMI.

If the SoC did support VGA I would bet it would have been supported, unless routing the signals from the SoC was extremely difficult. Header pins could have been used instead of a 15-way D socket if keeping costs down were an issue.

Likewise, if the SoC had not supported composite video, I don't think that would have been a show stopper if it were missing. It would have prevented cheap car TV displays being easily used but they are mainly used by hobbyists using the Pi as an application platform and would not affect the Pi's educational goals much.

[mrpi64]

Well, VGA is older (1980s?), and you can get VGA-HDMI adapters anyways.

[mikerr]

Are there really still some VGA only LCD's for sale out there?

I'm afraid so, I just went to all of the suppliers I regularlly use for computer bits, went to the monitors section sorted by price and picked the first result that was in-stock.

Yep, at the low end, there still seems to be a £10 premium for DVI over just VGA
and that adds up when a school etc is buying 50 units...

[jamesh]

Are there really still some VGA only LCD's for sale out there?

I'm afraid so, I just went to all of the suppliers I regularlly use for computer bits, went to the monitors section sorted by price and picked the first result that was in-stock.

Yep, at the low end, there still seems to be a £10 premium for DVI over just VGA
and that adds up when a school etc is buying 50 units...

But the savings in the long term...oh....hold on,...education doesn't really think long term.