Quality/Heat issues?

[gpharos]

I have bought two PI's from a qualified distributor. The purchase was made on November 13, 2013 and since then both PI's have failed. The first one within a month and just recently the second one. They honored the warranty, but my concern is the quality of the product. I am loading these device with Raspbmc and using them as front ends to my xbmc server. I just now ordered a pack of 8 heat sinks to add to the warranty replacements, I had both units set for fast according to the Raspbmc settings. I have the replacement set for default, but I think it must be a heat issue or quality of the parts. Has anyone else had problems with these going out over a period of months?

[iinnovations]

No. I have been running a dozen Pis for a year or two with no failures except one due to operator error.

[GTR2Fan]

I am loading these device with Raspbmc and using them as front ends to my xbmc server. I just now ordered a pack of 8 heat sinks to add to the warranty replacements, I had both units set for fast according to the Raspbmc settings.

I've been running RaspBMC 24/7-ish for just over a month now on the custom overclock settings in my forum signature with no sign of issues so far. I realise that this falls short of your several months, but temperatures are only slightly higher than on stock clocks here and are always at least 25°C below the recommended maximum of 85°C with an ambient room temperature of around 20°C.

I do have a small heatsink on my CPU/GPU which the previous owner fitted as he liked to overclock too, but whether that's really necessary in the long term I can't say as I've never operated without one.

[gpharos]

No. I have been running a dozen Pis for a year or two with no failures except one due to operator error.

That's what I am looking for, a reliable low cost solution. I currently have 2 PI's working now, and another one coming as a warranty replacement. @ GTR2Fan when I ck temps on the working ones at idle they are running around 57-60C and under load stay in the 60C mark. The last one to go, I had moved some folders around on the server and added new movies. While it was cleaning the lib (it stalled around half way trhough for 3-5 minuites due to the cahnges I made) and once it reached the 100% mark it just froze. After power off it never came back up, tv just posts no hdmi 2 input is attached and no boot Splash. Changed power supply and sd card from a working one with no success. I am just concerned that maybe PI's built say in the UK are better quality than ones from China.

[gkreidl]

@gpharos: what do you mean by "failed"?

[GTR2Fan]

I am just concerned that maybe PI's built say in the UK are better quality than ones from China.

I hope not. Mine's a Model B Rev1, possibly Chinese? Thankfully it was a present from a very good friend.

[Heater]

There is more to this than you are saying.

With 2 million units now out in the world and having been out for, what is it, nearly two years now, I think if there were such quality issues we would have heard about it by now. And loudly.

Anecdotally my two Pi's were among the first out, I think made in China. They are they are still working well.

[redhawk]

Well you must be doing something wrong, my Pi including the same memory card has been running near solid for 2 years.
Lots of things can go wrong you need to check the obvious like power supplies and memory cards - http://elinux.org/R-Pi_Troubleshooting

Richard S.

[jamesh]

I have bought two PI's from a qualified distributor. The purchase was made on November 13, 2013 and since then both PI's have failed. The first one within a month and just recently the second one. They honored the warranty, but my concern is the quality of the product. I am loading these device with Raspbmc and using them as front ends to my xbmc server. I just now ordered a pack of 8 heat sinks to add to the warranty replacements, I had both units set for fast according to the Raspbmc settings. I have the replacement set for default, but I think it must be a heat issue or quality of the parts. Has anyone else had problems with these going out over a period of months?

Do you have any information on what actually failed on the Pi's? It would be exceptional unusual for you to have two failures, so knowing exactly what went wrong with them would be a good start to figuring out the problem.

The Raspi has a very low failure rate for a commercial product, much below the average. There is no need for anyone to worry about quality - 2.5M sold, most returns have been finger trouble, very few actual failures.

[jdb]

What is the TP1-TP2 voltage on the Pi when it is plugged into the same power supply that the "failed" Pi used?

[gpharos]

@gpharos: what do you mean by "failed"?

Stopped working, no boot Splash screen, dead in the water with pwr light lit on the PI. Sitting here looking at the one I requested an RMA on there is a power light on the PI but no pwr light on an attached four port passive usb hub nor a usb attached Kybd. Looks to be a power problem. The first one popped up a D-BUS error and was non responsive while accessing xbmc menus on tv, reset pwr and unit was non responsive.

@Redhawk
" Well you must be doing something wrong, my Pi including the same memory card has been running near sold for 2 years."

Yes I agree that it is strange, but having a initial product release running for 2 years when the first batches were given 100% QC before being released out the door is a little different when a mature product which is tested at maybe 1-2% QC of production units. Plus you need to take into account that manufacturers will change components that supposedly have same specifications (generic) to the original components to reduce manf costs. and increase profit margins. There could be many reasons, just asking if anyone else has had issues with current PI's on the marketplace. Not knocking the product, just curious why I am having these issues.

[mahjongg]

you probably only managed to scramble the sd-cards somehow.
I suggest trying again with another sd-card.

[jamesh]

@gpharos: what do you mean by "failed"?

Stopped working, no boot Splash screen, dead in the water with pwr light lit on the PI. Sitting here looking at the one I requested an RMA on there is a power light on the PI but no pwr light on an attached four port passive usb hub nor a usb attached Kybd. Looks to be a power problem. The first one popped up a D-BUS error and was non responsive while accessing xbmc menus on tv, reset pwr and unit was non responsive.

@Redhawk
" Well you must be doing something wrong, my Pi including the same memory card has been running near sold for 2 years."

Yes I agree that it is strange, but having a initial product release running for 2 years when the first batches were given 100% QC before being released out the door is a little different when a mature product which is tested at maybe 1-2% QC of production units. Plus you need to take into account that manufacturers will change components that supposedly have same specifications (generic) to the original components to reduce manf costs. and increase profit margins. There could be many reasons, just asking if anyone else has had issues with current PI's on the marketplace. Not knocking the product, just curious why I am having these issues.

If you are using an unpowered hub, my guess would be you have overloaded the USB polyfuses. The USB on the Raspi is only rated for 100mA IIRC, so any more than that and you need a powered hub. They can take a couple of days (!!) to recover. Check the voltage as suggested above to ensure the Pi is getting enough power.

When they stopped, did you try with new SD cards? Or try again after a couple of days?

You seem to be making some incorrect assumptions in your final paragraph, which need to be refuted. AIUI All UK made Pi's go through a quality test in production, to ensure they work before leaving the factory. This has always been the case. In addition any component changes need to be ratified with the Foundation before they are made by the manufacturers, to ensure quality is maintained. Quality now should be the same or better than the early devices. The fact they have a very very low failure rate confirms that.

In précis, it's almost certainly something you are doing, or perhaps a freak coincidence, rather than a quality control problem which would have been flagged up well before now, had one existed.

[gkreidl]

And what was connected to the 4 port passive (crazy idea, btw.) USB hub, drawing power from the RPi? You certainly managed to get a power break (polyfuse) which in turn might have damaged the root file system on your SD card.

[gpharos]

I do not need you fan boys answering questions that are of no help. I bought two PI's at one time from the same distributor. Both serial numbers within a few numbers. I was looking to see if anyone in the Nov/Dec time frame had any pre-mature failures. Not telling me attaching a 4 port usb is bad (works extremely well and usb 2.0 compliant device I own, about 30). The PI has it's own separate pwr supply with 2000mw output power. I connect the four port hub up so I can connect a 1TB external Powered (for you) so I have enough ports for keyboard and MCE receiver. Once programmed and tested for a few days it is attached to my TV's with one MCE receiver and hardwired to a gigabit network. I shouldn't have to come in here to get bashed by ppl who think they know everything and asking/answering questions that are not what I posted. Read the post by me and quit asking questions that have already been answered. The mod can close this thread, I will look elsewhere.

[iinnovations]

It is annoying when you get a lot of answers you didn't ask for, but no need to ragequit. There was some help in there.

[mahjongg]

Not telling me attaching a 4 port usb is bad (works extremely well and usb 2.0 compliant device I own, about 30).

they did not tell you that, instead you said:

on an attached four port passive usb hub

the key word is passive, which means it derives its power from the host (the PI), which on a PI is indeed a bad idea! you need a powered hub! The PI is not designed to power externally powered passive hubs, it has only a few hundred mA reserved for 2 USB devices, but a passive hub with multiple USB devices attached might need 500mA instead which may be too much! It may eventually blow its polyfuse when you try to do that! And in this case it probably did.

Nothing wrong with attaching a 4 port USB hub, but its highly recommended to use an externally powered one! its in the FAQ!

[jamesh]

I do not need you fan boys answering questions that are of no help. I bought two PI's at one time from the same distributor. Both serial numbers within a few numbers. I was looking to see if anyone in the Nov/Dec time frame had any pre-mature failures. Not telling me attaching a 4 port usb is bad (works extremely well and usb 2.0 compliant device I own, about 30). The PI has it's own separate pwr supply with 2000mw output power. I connect the four port hub up so I can connect a 1TB external Powered (for you) so I have enough ports for keyboard and MCE receiver. Once programmed and tested for a few days it is attached to my TV's with one MCE receiver and hardwired to a gigabit network. I shouldn't have to come in here to get bashed by ppl who think they know everything and asking/answering questions that are not what I posted. Read the post by me and quit asking questions that have already been answered. The mod can close this thread, I will look elsewhere.

Can I ask you to be polite please. I do not like the use of the word fanboy - I regard as insulting, so please don't use it. You are posting on a public forum, and are bound to get a variety of answers, some to questions you haven't asked, but in general the people here know an awful lot, quite likely more than you and anywhere else on the internet, so please calm down. Having read the above, there doesn't seem anything you need to be riled about - it all seems perfectly valid diagnostic advice by people trying to help you. If you don't want help, that's fine, but don't go off on one about it.

Also, you made some points about quality control above that needed to be refuted - that was not an answer to your post, but we cannot have inaccuracies being posted without some sort of response to fix those inaccuracies.

But to to answer you original post - again - NO THERE HAVE NOT BEEN ANY QUALITY ISSUES.

So, now we need to know exactly why you have had two failures. Which is very unlikely and indicative of a problem with what you are doing, so it would be prudent to find out what the problem is before you break your replacements. My guess is the polyfuses, because you may be overloading the Pi's USB Ports since you said you were using a passive hub. Or it could be corrupted SD cards.

So, if you really want to find out what the problem is, can you please answer my questions above - did you try a freshly imaged SD card, and did you try again with the Pi's after a couple of days off?

[jdb]

The PI has it's own separate pwr supply with 2000mw output power. I connect the four port hub up so I can connect a 1TB external Powered (for you) so I have enough ports for keyboard and MCE receiver.

If you're going to answer any questions, at least provide the answer to this one:

What is the TP1-TP2 voltage on the Pi when it is plugged into the same power supply that the "failed" Pi used?