SpaceHobo
Posts: 23
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 8:31 pm

Re: Ubuntu

Sat Sep 17, 2011 8:42 am

Quote from jamesh on September 17, 2011, 08:40
I'm not flaming people who wish the Raspi didn't have prop drivers. *I* wish is had non-prop drivers. I'm not flaming myself, I'm am flaming those who continue to bring up the subject, even though it has been explained many times why it has to be done like this. It's not perfect, but it is necessary. A pragmatic approach, that is generally accepted . There are many questions that need answering on this forum, and to continually be drawn back to this argument is a waste of time when it has been so fully explained already. That and continually having to state 'No not till November', 'no you can't have an alpha' 'yes, we ship worldwide'.

Stop reading problems in to peoples comment when there are none. You seem to be the only one who is 'disapointed' with the attitude, and you are the one who started it all by not listening to what people were saying, or by deliberately bringing up the subject again.


I would caution you to stop reading problems into my comments when there are none, as well. I made one small comment specific to relationships with the Ubuntu project, and it is all of you who dragged this thread down into the tired old arguments.

The "Not 'til November" and "No Alphas" responses you people give aren't nearly as antagonistic and defensive as you people get with the mere mention of licensing.

And please, don't call us vicious or fanatical. That's not very pleasant, and so far from the truth. We haven't said that about you.


Again, please re-read what I said. I don't believe you're vicious or fanatical people, but something about this forum encourages discourse that appears that way. I've been nothing but reasonable from the moment I joined, and I have put up with this "us-vs-them" attitude because I believe the R-Pi will be amazing if it ships.

Just look at the reasoned response that one Ubuntu project member posted on his own time for this bug about the R-Pi, and the "VIOLENT" (his word) response it garnered from an r-pi forum member:

https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/848154

I really worry that this forum community will hamper the project's goals, this way.

obarthelemy
Posts: 1407
Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2011 10:53 pm

Re: Ubuntu

Sat Sep 17, 2011 10:07 am

I made a post suggesting that a free OS project might be more inclined to make an effort if the result meets their published goals of furthering free software
1- you did not make *A* post, you made about 20. We heard you the first time, thanks.
2- the Pi's goal is not to further free software, but to give kids an opportunity to learn about programming; especially poor ones. Ubuntu are not interested, it's their right, I'm OK with that.

I don't understand why you folks are all the ones who keep dragging out these peculiar claims that secrecy will assist education completely out of the blue and yet you try to paint me as the unreasonable one
Except we're not, we're trying over and over again to explain to you that we can't make the driver open (you should be talking to Broadcom); that an open driver would be better, but a closed driver does NOT prevent success of our goals.

People wishing the R-Pi had a VGA port get nods of agreement and talk of unfortunate compromise
How would a VGA port be "unfortunate" (sic)?

People wishing that the R-Pi didn't require proprietary drivers get mercilessly flamed.
People who enquire or request an open driver get the situation nicely explained to them. People who come back over and over again about to troll about this pet peeve, get flamed, and soon booted out.

Again, the dichotomy is either a Pi with closed graphics driver, or no Pi. I'll take the PI, thank you.

Tide
Posts: 93
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2011 11:21 am

Re: Ubuntu

Sat Sep 17, 2011 10:11 am

I think it's quite clear from the content you linked why Canonical's goals and target group differ substantially from those of the RaspberryPi Foundation. Disagreeing vehemently and violently won't help, I agree it must have been slightly off-putting for the Ubuntu chap. You simply cannot protect a product from it's fans (just think of the ongoing Mac/Win fanboi flamewars).

Could you please stop going on about it though? Getting tedious. Take a break, go out with your gf or whatever. Relax, life's to short so accept the things you won't change.

jamesh
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Posts: 26059
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 7:41 pm

Re: Ubuntu

Sat Sep 17, 2011 10:50 am

Ah, if only I had a girlfriend. Mind you, the wife might get a bit cheesed. And the children mean I never get out. And I'm having a yard sale right now, and it's chucking it down with rain. So I've come in to answer some questions.
Principal Software Engineer at Raspberry Pi (Trading) Ltd.
Contrary to popular belief, humorous signatures are allowed. Here's an example...
I've been saying "Mucho" to my Spanish friend a lot more lately. It means a lot to him.

SpaceHobo
Posts: 23
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 8:31 pm

Re: Ubuntu

Sat Sep 17, 2011 11:25 am

Quote from obarthelemy on September 17, 2011, 11:07
I made a post suggesting that a free OS project might be more inclined to make an effort if the result meets their published goals of furthering free software
1- you did not make *A* post, you made about 20. We heard you the first time, thanks.
2- the Pi's goal is not to further free software, but to give kids an opportunity to learn about programming; especially poor ones. Ubuntu are not interested, it's their right, I'm OK with that.

I worry that perhaps English may not be the primary language of correspondents here, and that reading comprehension problems may be causing friction. I was not speaking of the Pi's goals, but of Ubuntu's stated and published goals. Further, I made one post on this thread, and was then mercilessly attacked for points I had not made. If I have posted much, it is because posts like yours keep dragging this forum into the mud.

I don't understand why you folks are all the ones who keep dragging out these peculiar claims that secrecy will assist education completely out of the blue and yet you try to paint me as the unreasonable one
Except we're not, we're trying over and over again to explain to you that we can't make the driver open (you should be talking to Broadcom); that an open driver would be better, but a closed driver does NOT prevent success of our goals.

I wish that this were true!

People wishing the R-Pi had a VGA port get nods of agreement and talk of unfortunate compromise
How would a VGA port be "unfortunate" (sic)?

Again, I worry that this is is all caused by defecits in reading comprehension. The compromises that prevent ready addition of a VGA port are, of course, the unfortunate part of this. That seemed obvious to me, and still does upon re-reading the quoted section above. *shrug*

People wishing that the R-Pi didn't require proprietary drivers get mercilessly flamed.
People who enquire or request an open driver get the situation nicely explained to them. People who come back over and over again about to troll about this pet peeve, get flamed, and soon booted out.

I object to being labeled a "troll". If anything, I'm the one being trolled into constantly addressing a set of complaints against my posts that have little connection to the points I actually made. More fool, me, I guess.

Tide
Posts: 93
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2011 11:21 am

Re: Ubuntu

Sat Sep 17, 2011 11:43 am

Quote from jamesh on September 17, 2011, 11:50
Ah, if only I had a girlfriend. Mind you, the wife might get a bit cheesed. And the children mean I never get out. And I'm having a yard sale right now, and it's chucking it down with rain. So I've come in to answer some questions.


Ehm I was referring to Space Hobo, not advising the admin to get a life.
Sorry if that wasn't clear from the context. Apologies to the Missus and
good luck with the yard sale (got some LC-10 ribbons by any chance?)!

ShiftPlusOne
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Posts: 6225
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2011 5:36 pm
Location: The unfashionable end of the western spiral arm of the Galaxy

Re: Ubuntu

Sat Sep 17, 2011 11:44 am

Ok, I am going to be somewhat neutral here. Whoever you think is the troll, don't respond to them. If that person continues being disruptive, then they won't be around for long anyway.

Everyone has said what they wanted to say, now move on. Thank you.

No need to reply to this.

Blars
Posts: 88
Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2011 3:22 am
Contact: Website

Re: Ubuntu

Sat Sep 17, 2011 12:53 pm

Quote from SpaceHobo on September 17, 2011, 01:27

If I remember correctly, Debian supported m68k until around 2002 or so (woody). That's a pretty good track record for supporting older architectures.

Debian still has an active m68k port, it just is no longer one of the officially supported ones. Part of the problem was the speed of the buildds (build machines) -- if it takes m68k 4 days to compile a new kernel on the fastest buildd, that would mean delays in security support for all supported architectures.

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