Knowledge of Visual Studio -- what will I need to use my knowledge or do I need to learn something new

[jfeeney]

I have spent the last week reading through the forums on the RPi. For many years I have worked with visual studio -- C#. I have also used Visual Studio C# for playing with my Netduino board.

I am very interested in the RPi as well.

I am trying to discover how I can use my existing C# knowledge and work with the the RPi

Questions:

a) Does a SD card come with the RPi to get it up and running?

b) If so, what will come on the SD disk that comes with the RPi -- a version of Linux? If so, what version of Linux?

c) What will I need to download, compile, install to get Mono working on RPi?

d) If I get Mono working, am I correct in thinking that writing code in Visual Studio C#, and then save it on to the SD card...I can use Mono to (compile? and) run the code?

e) Do I need Mono if I want to use other Visual Studio programs such as IronPhyton or IronRuby?

f) Finally -- if I didn't use Visual Studio C#, IronPython or IronRuby....what appears to be the most popular program that others will be using to start programming on the RPi?

Thanks, John

[error404]

a) No.

b) See a). Though apparently the officially supported image at launch will be Fedora-based.

c) It is unclear to me at this point whether a full distribution is planned, or if only the software provided on the image will be available. If the former, you should be able to just download Mono prepackaged. If the latter I'd probably just wait for Debian to be ported.

d) Your compiled assembly (ie. .exe file) should run directly if it sticks to supported libraries and .NET features. See: http://www.mono-project.com/Gu.....ortability

e) IronPython and IronRuby are mechanisms of turning Python code into .NET bytecode for execution in that environment. You can just use Python and Ruby directly, though I believe at least IronPython is supported by Mono.

f) Do you mean IDE or programming language? I'd say Python for programming language. Your choice of programming language will guide your choice of IDE.

[spurious]

Here is the Mono/ARM page:

http://www.mono-project.com/Mono:ARM

As for IDE, maybe SharpDevelop will run, but not sure:

http://www.icsharpcode.net/ope.....source/sd/

You might want to look at this thread:
http://www.raspberrypi.org/for.....38;ret=all

[emg]

I plan on doing something similar. Pay attention to what parts of the .net framework are supported under Mono. From reading about others experience, don't try to get fancy with the UI, pinvoke, etc and your application should run OK under Mono.

My question is will Mono packages be available for the Fedora distro? Has the official distro changed from Debian to Fedora?

[abishur]

To further answer question b, this is taken off the FAQ Page (emphasis added):

What Linux distros will be supported at launch?

Fedora, Debian and ArchLinux will be supported from the start. We hope to see support from other distros later. (Because of issues with newer releases of Ubuntu and the ARM processor we are using, Ubuntu can’t commit to support Raspberry Pi at the moment.) You will be able to download distro images from us as soon as the Raspberry Pi is released, and we will also be selling pre-loaded SD cards shortly after release.

[Huulivoide]

There is also the newish Vala programming language which is very

alike with C# and it can compiles into native code, so it might run

faster on RPi

(valac hello.vala -> gcc hello.c -> hello.o)

http://live.gnome.org/Vala

[bbramble]

Abishur said:

 You will be able to download distro images from us as soon as the Raspberry Pi is released, and we will also be selling pre-loaded SD cards shortly after release.




If it's at all possible, wouldn't it make sense to release distro images before the boards are available, otherwise you are going to get hammered on the day, whereas if it was available now people could download at their leisure.

[abishur]

bbramble said:


Abishur said:


You will be able to download distro images from us as soon as the Raspberry Pi is released, and we will also be selling pre-loaded SD cards shortly after release.




If it's at all possible, wouldn't it make sense to release distro images before the boards are available, otherwise you are going to get hammered on the day, whereas if it was available now people could download at their leisure.



Indeed it would, and IIRC Liz has stated that in the next X days here they hope to do just that, I was just directly quoting the FAQ (it has a lot of frequently over-looked answer... we should just about call them FOAs )

[jamesh]

A little bird told me that the rootfs is pretty much finalised, so images should be along soon.

[jfeeney]

Thanks for the many replies.

i) So it is now my understanding that after I get my RPi, I would then download from the http://www.rapberrypi.org one of the three Linux distribution packages. I assume that I download and place this onto a SD disk?

ii) I am going to assume that Mono is not part of one of the three distribution packages and is not found on the Raspberry.org site.

iii) After I have downloaded the Linux distribution package, will I then download Mono onto the same SD card?

iv) The other alternative would be to download one of the three distributions from http://www.raspberry.org and then go to http://www.python.org and download phyton 2.7.2 for windows. Create my program using phyton and make a .exe file. Copy the .exe onto the SD disk and run the program on the RPi?

v) When I download one of the three distribution packages from http://www.raspberry.org, will there be any setup involved once I put the SD card into the RPi or do they fire up once the RPi is turned on like my IBM Dos disketes did in the early 1980's. (Those were actually 5.25 inch disketes in that first IBM DOS computer).

Thanks, John

[Huulivoide]

i) Correct. But you don't copy it there but instead write it to it (like burning a cd) and not copy it like you would do for a holliday picture backup.

ii/iii)You clearly don't understand linux. In linux you NEVER go to any site to download a app. Instead we have these applications called packagemanagers. Theese applications are bit like the "Remove application" menu in Windows control panel, except that they can also install and update all of your applications. These applications download the applications and libraries ("aplications" which themself cannot do anything alone, but when called by another application can provide functionality [handling .jpeg files for example] whitout needing the app developper to write code from scrach to do that). So you would launch the pkgmanger of your distro and write "mono" on the search-box.

iv) Linux doesent use .exe files and doesent even understand them, these are purely windowsexecutables. Well if you write the app in .NET language then you can run the .exe files trought mono. Instead the linux executables don't have a file extension at all so python executable is just simply called 'python' not python.exe. The fileformat these linux executables use is called elf-files, same format is used on the libraries too, but they have .so extension or .so.library.version (like libjpeg.so.8.0.2). Python is so common in linux world that it is installed by default mostlikely, so you can just simply open terminal window and run "python pydevel/hello_world.py" to run your python application

v)Depending on your distribution of choise it may contain none, or max user setup. + additional utilities and application you want from pkg-manager.

ArchLinux is a total differend case and it isin't for you that is for sure, at least not in this point yet. It need A LOT of manual config file tweaking and common linux knoweledge. But I really encourage you to learn much about linux and then try rchLinux it is really woth it and you learn A LOT of usefull stuff you can apply in pretymuch any distro out there while using it.

[jfeeney]

Thanks Huulivoide for your excellent reply. As I was reading through it I was coming to the same conclusion that you made....my major problem is that I do not understand Linux so the whole concept of getting started is a big fog.

I tried to do a google search on rchLinux but did not come up with anything....I kept getting pages for ArchLinux. Can you give me some link or direction on where I might find or try rchLinux?

Also, your comment about not trying ArchLinux was very good. I certainly appreciate that experience players can give complete newbie a good starting point. I am very excited about being able to write programs and play with a RPi....however, I know from my own experience that if early in the game you get frustrated with the thing they soon become dust collectors.

My goal this weekend is to gain some basic knowledge of Linux and then go back to reading the forums to gain and understanding of the first steps needed to get my (hopefully soon) newly acquired RPi working.

Thanks, John

[jamesh]

jfeeney said:


Thanks Huulivoide for your excellent reply. As I was reading through it I was coming to the same conclusion that you made....my major problem is that I do not understand Linux so the whole concept of getting started is a big fog.

I tried to do a google search on rchLinux but did not come up with anything....I kept getting pages for ArchLinux. Can you give me some link or direction on where I might find or try rchLinux?

Also, your comment about not trying ArchLinux was very good. I certainly appreciate that experience players can give complete newbie a good starting point. I am very excited about being able to write programs and play with a RPi....however, I know from my own experience that if early in the game you get frustrated with the thing they soon become dust collectors.

My goal this weekend is to gain some basic knowledge of Linux and then go back to reading the forums to gain and understanding of the first steps needed to get my (hopefully soon) newly acquired RPi working.

Thanks, John


I think rchLinux is a typo - surely means ArchLinux. Which isn't for beginners.

I use Ubuntu on the desktop, I find that has been a great introduction to Linux.  There ar eplenty of good guides to using Linux, Dummies Guide to, Idiots guide to etc. DOnt go in to huge detail but van cetainlky get across the basics.

And really, the basics are all pretty simple unless you want to go power user in which case it can be as complicated as you want!

[Huulivoide]

Yeah sorry, I made a typo and meant ArchLinux.

I admit that Ubuntu has its use cases and is probably the easyest one to use and is the most popular distro. But I myself find 99% of Ubuntu's policies not appealing to me and Ubuntu has lots of problems and tries to be the Windows of linuxes. They do stuff differently from others and instead of trying to communicate with others to create standarts they create their own rules and won't stick to the standards...Ubuntu also tries to hide as much of technical stuff from the user as possible so if you wan't to know or learn something Ubuntu cant teach that you, but instead you have to go somewhere else to get that knowledge and then apply it in Ubuntu. Also Ubuntu ships with EXTREAMLY old applications as thats how they define word "stable".. but if you like and want to use Firefox 3.1 instead of current version 10.0.1 Ubuntu is the way to go.

[Instead of offering a never version of app with the security patches, they take the security patches out of the new version and modify them to be compitable with the older version {doing double the work is always nice (isin't it? O_o)}]

Also Ubuntu won't be compitable with Raspberry Pi, so I recomond using some other distro. Fedora will support Rasbperry Pi so that might be good starting point Fedora also contributes to upstream projects instead of creating own patched forks that only work with other patched forks of other apps like Ubuntu does...

Fedora also tries to make things easy for the end-user so you don't have to be scared of it.

And as said ArchLinux is not for beginners and requires certain level of knowledge. But I do believe that if uoi are willing to learn and ACCEPT (accepting things is the only thing you need to learn stuff, if you cannot accept Russian does not have word "is" you can never learn to speak it properly. And this applys to everything) things, own common sense and know how to use it so that you can click the "OK"-button when a popup window comes up and tells you to press that "OK"-button you can easily learn to use ArchLinux. Also a private mentor ready to guide and help you won't hurt .

I thought my ex-boyfriend to install and use ArchLinux via phone from other-side of the country and he had never used nor head of anything other than Firefox, Word and solitaire.... And he did it, he can now use Unix based OSs from GUI and on console DDDD So ArchLinux is not a monster that will eat you.

All you need is a skill to understand english and read the BEST (I really mean it) wiki in world archlinux.org/wik, knoweledge on using google and these few commands.

cd dir_name = go to directory ....

rm file/dir = remove a file or directory

nano file_name = easy text file editor

That is all you need to get started, everything else you can find from the handy, good and UP-TO-DATE guides (Ubuntu guides never work, they are always ment for some older release) on how to do stuff in ArchWiki and/or from simple google searches.

I have seen many people coming from other distros to ArchLinux in the arch's irc channel and they do have a lot of problems. These "Give your hand to mammy"-distros have made them stupid (or then they were stupid to start with) and they don't even try to learn stuff instead they just bark on how things are done differently on how there are no lights on the crossing but instead you have to look out for the cars yourself. Arch stick to pure upstream so basicly things that work in Arch will work in every distro, but not the other-way around cuz there isin't that  mammy in Arch, who would make you a sandwich, you have to make it yourself.

I gave to admit tough that even tough most of people in Arch's irc channel are nice and willing to help (I have heard that Ubuntu people just throw rock at you in their irc channel and treat you like scumbag......) migh tell you yo just simply leave and try out some easyer distro 1st if you are being really helpless and hoples noob, but I'm sure there are several people there who are willing to help even the noobs and give some hand in hand guidance.

[We also get people from all kind of distros seeking for help in our channel , cuz their own rspecive channels arent being helpfull every now and then.]

I feel so bad now for sayin only bad things about Ubuntu and no good at all. But being a more advanced user myself, I can't really see the good sides anymore. Many swear to the name of Ubuntu so it must be good in some aspects but I can't see them myself. ArchLinux is best for me and I do love its Keep-it-simple policy on things and how it lets YOU to decide on how to do things instead of forcing you into some way.

I understand you fully on the fustration thing. I have been trying to learn to program for years allredy, but I always get stuck in some early stage due to some error in my syntax and can't get around it and then just leave the whole thing after 5h of non resultive googling and nonanswerious ircing...

If you can find a "teacher" go with Arch if you can't Fedore might your best choise

[joeofloath]

Huulivoide said:

 Also Ubuntu ships with EXTREAMLY old applications as thats how they define word "stable".. but if you like and want to use Firefox 3.1 instead of current version 10.0.1 Ubuntu is the way to go.
[Instead of offering a never version of app with the security patches, they take the security patches out of the new version and modify them to be compitable with the older version {doing double the work is always nice (isin't it? O_o)}]



Um what?

Ubuntu is pretty damn up to date.

Maybe you're thinking of Debian? That uses older packages for stability's sake.

[abishur]

joeofloath said:


Huulivoide said:


Also Ubuntu ships with EXTREAMLY old applications as thats how they define word "stable".. but if you like and want to use Firefox 3.1 instead of current version 10.0.1 Ubuntu is the way to go.
[Instead of offering a never version of app with the security patches, they take the security patches out of the new version and modify them to be compitable with the older version {doing double the work is always nice (isin't it? O_o)}]


Um what?

Ubuntu is pretty damn up to date.

Maybe you're thinking of Debian? That uses older packages for stability's sake.



I believe he's talking about Ubuntu "stable" (Long Term Support) release which is Ubuntu 10.04, but they do offer the latest release (11.10) which is very, very up to date, but I'm not a big fan of their unity business so I went back to the LTS release, but that's my own fault.

[Huulivoide]

joeofloath said:


Um what?

Ubuntu is pretty damn up to date.

Maybe you're thinking of Debian? That uses older packages for stability's sake.



No Im thinking of ubuntu. For me using the 1.2 branch of libpng is prety dam out of date, as it has been deprecated by 1.4 branch in janruary 2010 and when current version is 1.5.8