there are many people who love the Pi and will not hear a bad word said against it”.
I have to agree it’s not working YET please remember we are yet to see the full educational release model “A”.I think the idea of the Raspberry Pi is really great, i love the idea of making computers available to all, and making it part of education. I love the idea that the first computer experiences kids will have will be with open source ideas like Linux and Python. This is a really great idea but i don't think it is working.
The Foundation have always made it clear (Note I am not of the Foundation) what you get for your money.The problem i feel is how the Pi is marketed. currently it is marketed as a $35 computer, and that sounds great but first of all $35 will buy you a brick, you cannot use it as a computer without adding other parts, like an SD card, OS, power cable, etc. so any school that thinks they can provide cheap computer projects for their pupils for $35 a head will be disappointed that they will have to be spending more than that to get something that works. Now i understand that this is not a hidden secret, that the website quick start makes it clear that extra parts will be needed, and i am sure that education packages would have some kind of reduced cost or bulk buy, but i still think the marketing is a bit misleading. When i first heard about the Pi, i saw an article saying: "$35 computers now on sale" which i thought would be, $35 and i have a compute i can use.
I’ve never bought a computer yet that did not need something spending on it although these days I tend to be able to take old hardware and spend a few quid making it at least as good as entry level current hardware. You make a fair point and as you say you are happy with that.anyway, i found out later i had to spend more money, and i was perfectly happy with that
This is a flaw in your perception the “B” was nominally released as a precursor to the Educational release model “A”i bought a Pi. but the Pi is not made for me, it is made for schools, and i can see this being a catch.
Sure is Linux fully grown up operating system.Secondly, it is marketed as a "computer" and sure it is, it runs linux, it is about as computer as it gets,
Please 3 year old , Console, The Raspberry Pi Foundation never said it would compete against that demographic.but people who don't know how to use linux or command prompt might be a little lost. i have seen kids at the age of 3, playing with games consoles and iPads etc, before they have even got to school they have a base idea of computers. they know that they are graphical, fun, interactive and easy to use.
There is a lot of but's in there but I will try to answer the points.But the Pi is not so straight forward, of course its all a matter of learning, which is the whole point, learning how to use linux etc, but i think this will put a lot of children off. If the idea is to get kids to want to use Linux over something like windows then i think their first experience with linux will be a bad one. For a start anyone who doesn't know linux, (which will most likely be both the pupils and teachers) will find the command prompt a bit backwards, compiling binaries, patching kernels, checking dependencies etc is certainly not the user friendly 'dumbed down' computers they are used to.
Still in development I have to keep brining this back to the fact that this is not the Educational release. The target demographic is the likes of myself trying to produce educational stuff.But also the Pi has a few more problems with its hardware, things like: it has an SD slot, but not all SD cards work with it. It has a USB cable, but it won't work in all USB sockets. these things take ideas that should be universal, like SD and USB and put some exceptions in the mix. if the Pi came with a jack socket and AC power supply, there would be no confusion and no issues with low power, the USB sockets wouldn't reset the Pi when things were plugged in, the computer wouldn't lock up with low power etc. so an AC power supply would mean that kids could get started quicker and there would be less "weird" power issues causing problems which can be sometimes hard to track down. These kids are trying to be educated and cant spend a whole lesson trying to find out why the Pi keeps crashing.
You have to admit that’s not a foundation created problem.My first experience with the Pi crashing was actually due to the USB cable. i had a power supply that was rated 5v @ 2A, so it was fine, i bought a USB cable from ebay that had in the listing "for Raspberry Pi" but the Pi kept locking up, eventually i tracked the problem down to the cable, it turns out the internal resistance was too much and the cable just didn't work. i returned it to the seller who confirmed the entire batch was bad.
I hope you are loosing the obsession with children there are some in the loop but it appears they know how to use Google and the Wiki. It appears to come naturally.This kind of problem and fault finding was enough of a problem for me and i am experienced with computers and electronics, but for children who are just starting out with computers, this will not inspire them.
Yes the very kids you claim won’t be able to handle the Raspberry Pi live on line in their phones, facebook accounts and twitterings.The other problem is the Internet, one of the first things kids would probably want to use their new Pi for is to log onto facebook, they want the internet. the latest generation of kids don't know a life without the internet, it is an essential part of their world. but the Pi can barely run the internet, the web browsers don't support some of the basic internet requirements like flash, and the processor is just too slow to run the internet reasonably. Why would any child be inspired to buy a linux computer when they are older if their first impression of linux is that it can't even go on the net? even mobile phones can go on the internet. I think this could be a deal breaker for some kids.
Remember the Raspberry Pi GPIO interface is still waiting for a mass release of the Gertboard but I actually have seen and responded to a post (from a early teen) who was trying to find a source of fly leads so he could wire his GPIO to a project board.Personally, i wasn't expecting the Pi to be much, i looked at the hardware and i understood that it was going to be limited. that wasn't a problem for me, all i wanted to use it for was to create a graphical interface for some electronic projects. the Pi and its powerful HDMI level graphics processor, would handle the graphics, and then send simple commands out the GPIOs to turn things on and off and receive information from sensors.
Sounds like you have given up.I chose the Pi over something like an Arduino because it had much better graphics support and higher level programming options, where as the Arduino takes a lot of effort to get a graphical interface of any kind out of it.
but when i look at other people's projects, most of them are not using graphics at all, they are using them to turn things on and off, or as servers etc, which means that these extra graphics are not even being used.
Yes you are right why try and reinvent the Arduino yes that is a “waste of Pi”. It’s their Pi they are wasting, not yours and it’s a free world if that’s what they want to do then let them it’s not like they are using your RPi, electricity and bandwidth.so basically lots of people are using the Pi as a powerful Arduino, and to me that seems like a waste, if the Pi is only good at doing Arduino style tasks then its not really a computer, and with the Arduino being cheaper, better supported, and easier to use, why try and reinvent the arduino?
Yesso i think that if kids are going to get into programming and electronics they should use Arduinos instead of the Raspberry Pi.
Your opinion here is that for some things the Arduino is better than the Raspberry Pi an that has to be true. Arduino and it was equipment I had not heard of till I started at this forum is a hardware led solution with software support.which is a shame because that doesn't allow them to use Linux and Python, but i feel the Pi will put kids off linux and programming.
I had to twist a Mods arm to let me print a response I felt you were dueso anyway, i want to discuss this.
UNBELIEVER :lol I would contest “normal” and replace it with “other” the Raspberry Pi is based on an ARM Architecture RISC chip an architecture that powers nearly all of our current technology the Raspberry Pi is just another arm to that processors influence.Dont get me wrong the Raspberry Pi concept is great, I understand that a $35 computer is never going to compete with "normal computers"
Time will tell the Raspberry Pi could well end up as a hobbyist cul-de-sac there is a possibility that the educational release could be a game changer as could the camera and the Gertboard but we have to be clear the Raspberry Pi has already written it’s place in history however flaky the command line startx it has had to date.but i think as it is, its going to put kids off computers rather than get them inspired. What does everyone else think?
Well nearly the end of the beginning.Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning.
Well, it's the moderators decision here, so I suggest you keep your views to yourself. Given the number of PM's and reports on this thread, I think I was right to close it straight away. So closing it again since I don't think anyone can be trusted to keep it polite. DIsent? I've heard of it.dextrus wrote:While I agree with the response above, it's a bit rich to open the thread for this. Moderators: Please live with a modicum of dissent and stop being so grumpy. The OP had a point, from his point-of-view, and you ended the discussion with a good post that was entirely one-sided.
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