Pi Zero bulk inquiry

[orthoplex64]

I'm a private individual looking to order the minimum possible quantity of Raspberry Pi Zeros (not W) in bulk. I understand the unit price is higher than $5 in bulk.
I found some similar threads from 2017/2018 where jamesh said to DM him for details, but I cannot find a way to send DMs on these forums. I tried sending a message using https://www.raspberrypi.org/contact/ but I didn't get a reply.
It's my impression that the minimum quantity is somewhere between 100 and 500.

Thanks

[jamesh]

Please email info@raspberrypi.org. Might take a while to get through the system.

Price will certainly be higher. Look into the ZeroW or ZeroWH which should be available in bulk already.

[mattmiller]

Look into the ZeroW .... which should be available in bulk already.

Typo or is it really available in bulk the same way as the PiZeroWH is i.e. from retail shops?

[W. H. Heydt]

Look into the ZeroW .... which should be available in bulk already.

Typo or is it really available in bulk the same way as the PiZeroWH is i.e. from retail shops?

I think the OPs understanding that buying in bulk will not be at the headline price ($5 for the Pi0) suggests that purchase of multiple Pi0W boards at retail for $10 each is NOT what jamesh (or the OP) meant. You can, however--subject to stock availability--buy multiple Pi0WH boards through the retail channel.

I took jamesh remark to indicate that there is likely quantities of Pi0W boards in stock should someone be interested in a bulk buy from the RPT at the higher rate for such things.

[ejolson]

For a frame of reference, the Pi Zero is generally available in quantity for the same price as the Pi Zero WH in store at Micro Center. For example,
.

pizero.png (126.73 KiB) Viewed 865 times

.
Therefore, it should be possible to beat the retail price of US$ 14.99 when ordering direct from the factory in quantity. Although the Pi 4B is very good, in my opinion the super-small Zero is perfection.

[Imperf3kt]

They also have a bogus "was $10.00, save $5.01" sales pitch. The Pi0 is $5.00USD, you're saving one cent, not five dollars.

They also are not supposed to be sold in bulk like this. I expect, now it has been brought to the attention of the RPF, this will stop soon.

[W. H. Heydt]

For a frame of reference, the Pi Zero is generally available in quantity for the same price as the Pi Zero WH in store at Micro Center. For example,
.
pizero.png
.
Therefore, it should be possible to beat the retail price of US$ 14.99 when ordering direct from the factory in quantity. Although the Pi 4B is very good, in my opinion the super-small Zero is perfection.

Can't tell from that ad, but in the past they have limited sales of Pi0/Pi0W to "in store only". Great if you live near one. Not very helpful if you don't. (Nearest one to me is about 400 miles away. Not exactly a spur-of-the-moment thing.)

Did a check of their web site...they don't even show the Pi0 or Pi0W there. And just for the weirdness of it all...the spec they give for the Pi2B is quad Cortex-A7. Either they've got leftover Pi2Bv1.1 or their list is *years* out of date.

[fanoush]

They also are not supposed to be sold in bulk like this. I expect, now it has been brought to the attention of the RPF, this will stop soon.

They are well known for doing this for years. As I understand it they are playing by the rule.

My interpretation of the rule for sellers:
We will supply you with Zeroes but you must agree to our charity goal and sell at least one piece of Zero for $5 (or W for $10) to one person.

For selling that one Zero to each customer for such price you as a seller have no profit/work for free/subsidize it. What is on top of that is your choice.

Some sellers like Farnell don't agree and don't sell Zero at all. Some use it as promotional item and/or agree with the charity goal.

[jamesh]

Zeros on the whole are in short supply at the moment anyway, heavy demand from the medical sector, so most are going that way.

[Imperf3kt]

They also are not supposed to be sold in bulk like this. I expect, now it has been brought to the attention of the RPF, this will stop soon.

They are well known for doing this for years. As I understand it they are playing by the rule.

My interpretation of the rule for sellers:
We will supply you with Zeroes but you must agree to our charity goal and sell at least one piece of Zero for $5 (or W for $10) to one person.

For selling that one Zero to each customer for such price you as a seller have no profit/work for free/subsidize it. What is on top of that is your choice.

Some sellers like Farnell don't agree and don't sell Zero at all. Some use it as promotional item and/or agree with the charity goal.

It has been stated many many many times in the past, the sale of Pi0 models except the "WH" model is supposed to be "strictly one per customer, ever"
Of course, this is impossible to enforce and largely falls back to "one per order"

[B.Goode]

A factual reply to the original question was given by a spokesperson for RPF/T within 30 minutes of the thread being started.

Is there any need to perpetuate it - there is nothing to discuss.

[B.Goode]

I cannot find a way to send DMs on these forums.

Relevant information from 2 years ago -
viewtopic.php?f=63&t=214084

[fanoush]

It has been stated many many many times in the past, the sale of Pi0 models except the "WH" model is supposed to be "strictly one per customer, ever"

Sure. This is message for you as a customer that you can't demand second one for $5. And for seller that he is not obliged to sell you a second one for that price if he does not want. That's all. The rest is self regulation because nobody wants to sell stuff for no profit.

[mattmiller]

Is there any need to perpetuate it - there is nothing to discuss.

Well -I wouldn't mind an answer to my question

[Burngate]

Zeros on the whole are in short supply at the moment anyway, heavy demand from the medical sector, so most are going that way.

I find that interesting.

In general, the medical profession tend to be quite obsessive about the safety and reliability of their equipment - rather more than we tinkerers, and with good reason; I wouldn't want to die just because some computer somewhere threw a wobbly.

So does that mean the zero is now over-certified for just tinkering?

[jamesh]

Zeros on the whole are in short supply at the moment anyway, heavy demand from the medical sector, so most are going that way.

I find that interesting.

In general, the medical profession tend to be quite obsessive about the safety and reliability of their equipment - rather more than we tinkerers, and with good reason; I wouldn't want to die just because some computer somewhere threw a wobbly.

So does that mean the zero is now over-certified for just tinkering?

Not used for safety critical parts of systems. There are lots of areas left, GUI for example, that can still make use of the Zero.

[ejolson]

For a frame of reference, the Pi Zero is generally available in quantity for the same price as the Pi Zero WH in store at Micro Center. For example,
.
pizero.png
.
Therefore, it should be possible to beat the retail price of US$ 14.99 when ordering direct from the factory in quantity. Although the Pi 4B is very good, in my opinion the super-small Zero is perfection.

Can't tell from that ad, but in the past they have limited sales of Pi0/Pi0W to "in store only". Great if you live near one. Not very helpful if you don't.

I don't live near one, but my younger brother does. According to him, it's the only store he feels comfortable to shop in these days because of the strict face mask policy and orderly procedure at the till. We've been having groceries home delivered since March--what a bunch of dented cans, bruised fruit, melted ice cream and squashed junk food. We are further frustrated by the present shortage of chocolate marshmallow cookies. Are they also part of the user interface?

On the bright side, rather than troubling my brother, I ordered some pies from OKdo. They took payment via PayPal and the 4B's arrived free shipping via DHL from the UK within a few days. It would have been good to place some packing material in the box so things didn't rattle, but nothing was dented, bruised, melted or squashed.

[W. H. Heydt]

The rest is self regulation because nobody wants to sell stuff for no profit.

You keep saying that, but it's not true. There is profit at all stages of the retail chain. It's just that there isn't very much profit. It is, so far as anyone here can tell, the thin profit that Farnell and RS objected to and thereby declined to carry the Pi0 line.

[fruitoftheloom]

The rest is self regulation because nobody wants to sell stuff for no profit.

You keep saying that, but it's not true. There is profit at all stages of the retail chain. It's just that there isn't very much profit. It is, so far as anyone here can tell, the thin profit that Farnell and RS objected to and thereby declined to carry the Pi0 line.

As a point of interest the RPi Zero family are the only models sold by Raspberry Pi Trading.

So they decide on pricing, hence why bulk purchases have always been at a higher price per unit, this then makes the CM1 or CM3 a viable alternative when creating a Product, which "theoretically" should leave plentiful supply of Zeros for people who can only afford a few $$$....

[rpdom]

As a point of interest the RPi Zero family are the only models sold by Raspberry Pi Trading.

I thought that some of the Pi 4B range were also sold by RPT. Maybe it was the 1GB version?

[fanoush]

The rest is self regulation because nobody wants to sell stuff for no profit.

You keep saying that, but it's not true. There is profit at all stages of the retail chain. It's just that there isn't very much profit. It is, so far as anyone here can tell, the thin profit that Farnell and RS objected to and thereby declined to carry the Pi0 line.

This is nitpicking. Even If I would replace "no profit" for "very little profit so it is not worth it" it would not change the meaning of what I wrote.

However maybe we also disagree on definition of profit. Hypothetically if I would get each Zero for $4.50 and sell it at $5, you may call that $0.5 difference as "There is profit It's just that there isn't very much of it". For me profit is what you can keep after you subtract cost of doing business (e.g. accepting card payment, printing invoice, handling/packing the item, handling some known percentage of returns and lost packages and related support cost and refunds, ... basically everything to keep lights on and business sustainable). So if this cost me in average more that $0.5 per customer order I would call it "there is no profit". Maybe this is where we disagree.

BTW I was the one who asked for clarification of 'one Zero per order' vs 'one Zero per person ever' because it happened to me that seller cancelled my second order of Pi Zero done few weeks after the first one. At that time the state of things was officially described as "one per order because there is high demand so that everyone can get one soon".
That shop lost me forever. It was worth the shop owner to do it and one of reasons he gave me is that by selling second Zero to me for $5 he is losing money. He had to answer my emails, cancel the payment and did not let it be even if I explained politely that I did not know exact rule and won't do it third time and will likely buy next Pi there. I bought several Pis there before, last being Pi2 before this happened. He still canceled it. So from this personal experience I have a reason to believe that even your sentence "There is profit at all stages of the retail chain. It's just that there isn't very much profit." is quite unlikely to be true. So that's why I keep saying that

[W. H. Heydt]

The rest is self regulation because nobody wants to sell stuff for no profit.

You keep saying that, but it's not true. There is profit at all stages of the retail chain. It's just that there isn't very much profit. It is, so far as anyone here can tell, the thin profit that Farnell and RS objected to and thereby declined to carry the Pi0 line.

This is nitpicking. Even If I would replace "no profit" for "very little profit so it is not worth it" it would not change the meaning of what I wrote.

It makes a difference because "no profit" would be selling at cost, with nothing to cover overhead. Selling for "very little profit" covers at least nominal overhead.

What is actually done on the part of the companies that sell Pi0s and Pi0Ws is that they try to get people to buy kits where they have a higher profit margin on the rest of the stuff in the kit. Alternatively, they hope that someone buying a Pi0 will also buy other stuff. The former doesn't make much sense for most customers (the ones that have those other items or know where to get them at less cost), while the later approach is adopted by at least some customers as a means to spread shipping and handling costs over more items. This is sometime done by buying other items and then just adding a Pi0 to the order as at that point the shipping on the Pi0 is--essentially--free of charge.

However maybe we also disagree on definition of profit. Hypothetically if I would get each Zero for $4.50 and sell it at $5, you may call that $0.5 difference as "There is profit It's just that there isn't very much of it".

That would be gross profit. Sometimes called gross margin. At, for retail, 11% *is* a very low gross margin. Typical retail markup is on the order of 50%.

For me profit is what you can keep after you subtract cost of doing business (e.g. accepting card payment, printing invoice, handling/packing the item, handling some known percentage of returns and lost packages and related support cost and refunds, ... basically everything to keep lights on and business sustainable). So if this cost me in average more that $0.5 per customer order I would call it "there is no profit". Maybe this is where we disagree.

That is net profit.

Whether $0.50 gross profit is enough to keep your net profit above zero will depend on how well you run your business. I think you will find that most Pi0 vendors also sell many items with a gross profit well below $0.50 each and still make a net profit on those items.

BTW I was the one who asked for clarification of 'one Zero per order' vs 'one Zero per person ever' because it happened to me that seller cancelled my second order of Pi Zero done few weeks after the first one. At that time the state of things was officially described as "one per order because there is high demand so that everyone can get one soon".

The official policy has always been "one per person, ever". In practice, that is unenforceable for most vendors, and with a little ingenuity on the part of a customer, not enforceable at all for any company. How do you check for second sales? Name? Address? CC number? There are easy ways around all of those. The ways around may be more trouble that just ordering from a vendor that doesn't try to enforce the policy, but they exist anyway. In any case, everybody I've ever ordered a Pi0 or Pi0W from has no issues with making another order for one. Enforcing one board per order is easy, where enforcing one per person is hard to impossible....and as your experience shows, likely counterproductive.

That shop lost me forever. It was worth the shop owner to do it and one of reasons he gave me is that by selling second Zero to me for $5 he is losing money. He had to answer my emails, cancel the payment and did not let it be even if I explained politely that I did not know exact rule and won't do it third time and will likely buy next Pi there. I bought several Pis there before, last being Pi2 before this happened. He still canceled it. So from this personal experience I have a reason to believe that even your sentence "There is profit at all stages of the retail chain. It's just that there isn't very much profit." is quite unlikely to be true. So that's why I keep saying that

There are more possibilities... The store owner may not run a very efficient business. He may spend too much time tracking orders and telling people "no" when just filling the order would cost him less. Personally, I think your point of stopping doing business with him and telling him why is the most effective thing to do. Then when he goes out of business for lack of customers (having ticked off too many of them), perhaps someone else will start a business and have a more reasonable attitude.

[emma1997]

The official policy has always been "one per person, ever".

IIRC that is not true. When it first came out for the crazy low price I was chided for using phrases like loss leader, sales promotion, etc etc. Replies from top Pi reps and Liz too I think were that it wasn't and just growing pains. Like virtually all previous models it would be available in quantity soon. As months and years go by the policy blurs apparently into the one you describe. Going back to the very first threads then should either confirm or disprove my recollection.

In retrospect it's obvious selling in qty for that price would be a ridiculous idea. Greedy entrepreneurs would hog up the stock with backlogs for years.

At that time I was involved with an institution that actually did purchase quantity (3 not Zer0). It was a major reason I signed up (or should say was signed up) to this site and it proved to be a goldmine for technical and logistic solutions regarding Pi. Not just the Pi company employees but other very interesting people too. Anyway couple semesters later they went with a cheaper but much less powerful ARM microcomputer. That's how I inherited a ton of 3B+, most of which were given to friends and family.

So Zero comes along and immediately I, being a Greedy Entrepreneur, had dreams of buying hundreds of these $5 computers and making huge profits reselling or incorporating into million dollar product lines. That bubble lasted about 10 minutes. I have bought dozens more models including Zero but mostly for fun or a few consulting jobs.

Kind of ironic some on my end still come to me for help when I really know very little compared to others here. Although that seems to be improving in spite of myself. lol

[fanoush]

The official policy has always been "one per person, ever".

Oh, no! That would be rewriting history and forgetting few years of changes before they finally settled on this officially.

Check official announcement and search for the limit https://www.raspberrypi.org/blog/raspberry-pi-zero/ it is not there.

Check second post https://www.raspberrypi.org/blog/did-yo ... y-pi-zero/ also comments from Liz below.

They are happy it sells well, they admit demand is high but no word about this being inteded as one per person ever. It was clearly not inteded at that time as price for one piece ever.

Here viewtopic.php?f=63&t=198705&p=1240761#p1240781 two years after announcement it is still not clear.

[orthoplex64]

Thanks jamesh. I sent an email to that address yesterday. Unfortunately right after sending it I noticed that I'd gotten a reply on the 16th to my /contact message from the 2nd, so I replied to that email with more details and an apology for the other email. Then this morning I got a reply from the other email asking for more details
What a mess I've made, but I'm sure we'll figure it out. Thanks again.