Heater
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Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 3:02 pm

Re: Board rev for USB-C fix?

Sun Nov 10, 2019 11:34 am

Not to worry, there is plenty of small stuff to fuss about passing through here everyday :)
Memory in C++ is a leaky abstraction .

hippy
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Location: UK

Re: Board rev for USB-C fix?

Sun Nov 10, 2019 8:38 pm

W. H. Heydt wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 3:17 am
In general, if all devices that didn't meet some standard or other couldn't be sold, there would be vast swaths of stuff on the market that would have to be withdrawn.
It depends on which standard it fails to meet. If a product fails to meet a safety standard or mandated legislative standard it should not be on sale and it will often be ordered that it is recalled and the public informed as such.

If a product fails to meet some standard a seller or manufacturer explicitly claims or implies it meets; the seller or manufacturer can be ordered to stop claiming or implying as such, and purchasers will usually be entitled to refunds, repairs or replacement if they seek them.

That's the case in the EU and UK. The situation may differ in other jurisdictions.

Moonmarch
Posts: 151
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Re: Board rev for USB-C fix?

Mon Nov 11, 2019 2:00 am

When you purchase the RPI4 you either only receive the computer nothing else or if you purchased the starter kit you will have everything you will need to run the computer, which means the computer should run out of the box if you read the instructions the starter kits will include the power supply, now if you are a person that buys every component individually if you let's say you build your own computers you will the description of all the components required to build the computer before checking out the shopping cart at your choice of online store, the RPI computer is not any different if the comptuer does not start up you will need to know why the computer will not start which can involve numerous scenarios you need to narrow down the reasons why you are running into these problems which includes searching around the internet for answers.

Even if you have a large number of power adapters you still need to verify the power adapter meets the 5V 3A power requirements, you will see power adapters rated at 5V 1A or 5V 2A powering the RPI computer is not challenging if you have access to all of the necessary components, if people do not understand how to use the RPI computer then request a refund use a Windows PC instead.

Heater
Posts: 13626
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 3:02 pm

Re: Board rev for USB-C fix?

Mon Nov 11, 2019 3:50 am

hippy,

Yes, which is exactly what I wrote a couple of posts back: https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/view ... 2#p1564098

None of which applies in this case. There are no safety regulation violations. There has been no misleading advertising, quite the opposite.

And as I said there: "Big fuss about nothing"
Memory in C++ is a leaky abstraction .

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Imperf3kt
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Location: Australia

Re: Board rev for USB-C fix?

Mon Nov 11, 2019 4:39 am

The USB port in my car does not transfer data to the on board computer. It merely supplies 12vDC to 5vDC conversion.
Can i rightly accuse the manufacturer of the USB device of not following usb2.0 spec?
Not really, as the device was never intended as anything other than a way to power 5v usb devices, similar to how the Pi was never intended to communicate with "Smart" chargers, but rather be powered via a 5v usb power supply.

The fact that you can use an appropriate usb charger to power your Pi, is a mere bonus, not its intended design.
55:55:44:44:4C
52:4C:52:42:41

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davidcoton
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Re: Board rev for USB-C fix?

Mon Nov 11, 2019 9:51 am

Imperf3kt wrote:
Mon Nov 11, 2019 4:39 am
... the Pi was never intended to communicate with "Smart" chargers, but rather be powered via a 5v usb power supply.
... except the Pi WAS intended to work with a smart charger, the resistors should instruct the charger to deliver 5V. But there is a circuit error, so they don't work as intended.
Imperf3kt wrote: The fact that you can use an appropriate usb charger to power your Pi, is a mere bonus, not its intended design.
You are conflating two issues. Some chargers will not maintain 5V while supplying their rated load. That is nothing to do with the smart charger issue. You should be able to power the Pi4B from any 5V source that can provide 3A at 4.75V-5.25V. That includes (some) smart chargers. So there is a design fault on the first release of the Pi4B, it has been agreed as a fault by RPT, it will (at some time) be fixed, probably with other minor board changes (markings for Japanese regulatory approval, possibly). Then the Pi4B will conform to the USB3 PD spec (as a consumer, not sure about as a source).
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hippy
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Location: UK

Re: Board rev for USB-C fix?

Mon Nov 11, 2019 10:54 am

Heater wrote:
Mon Nov 11, 2019 3:50 am
hippy,

Yes, which is exactly what I wrote a couple of posts back: https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/view ... 2#p1564098

None of which applies in this case. There are no safety regulation violations. There has been no misleading advertising, quite the opposite.

And as I said there: "Big fuss about nothing"
Seeing as my reply was deleted it appears I am not allowed to address this in the manner I did. I therefore won't be addressing this point.

Lewis-H
Posts: 14
Joined: Thu Oct 31, 2019 12:45 pm

Re: Board rev for USB-C fix?

Mon Nov 11, 2019 12:04 pm

The Pi 4 is not the first high-profile device to get the USB-C spec wrong. The Nintendo Switch also has a non-compliant USB-C port and Nintendo has warned against using substandard cables with the device.

Regards,
Lewis

jamesh
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
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Re: Board rev for USB-C fix?

Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:44 pm

Lewis-H wrote:
Mon Nov 11, 2019 12:04 pm
The Pi 4 is not the first high-profile device to get the USB-C spec wrong. The Nintendo Switch also has a non-compliant USB-C port and Nintendo has warned against using substandard cables with the device.

Regards,
Lewis
Yes, but whoever Nintendo are, they cannot be that big a company, so making a mistake is understandable....oh...hold on.....

Nice to be in the same paragraph as Nintendo though!
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