Heater
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Re: Multiple Pi's to replace W10

Sat Mar 30, 2019 9:04 am

Gavinmc42,
Most of my PI's and PC's don't need multi user OS's, so why have complex OS's I don't understand ?
I can be almost be certain that all of your Pi's and PC's have multiple users, many of them. Who might they be?

1) Yourself of course.

2) Yourself masquerading as the root/admin user.

3) In the case of Windows, Microsoft. They like to control your updates and spy on you.

4) Arguably all the authors of all the software you have installed on the machine.

5) All the authors of the Javascript that runs in web pages you visit.

6) All the visitors to any pages you have served up by a web server that uses PHP or some such.

7) All the authors of all the malware that is around looking to get into your machine via various network connections or whatever other interface.

Security aside it's useful to have 2), that can save you from shooting yourself in the foot. Like for example accidentally deleting the file system when logged in a yourself. Or perhaps some buggy program you are developing does something bad like that.

Security aside, it's useful to have tasks running in the background, they are likely to be the main purpose of the machine, whilst you only actually log in occasionally.

Then there is security. See 4), 5), 6), 7) and no doubt many others I have neglected.

Of course 3) is a good argument for a single user operating system :)
Last edited by Heater on Sat Sep 14, 2019 7:58 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Gavinmc42
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Re: Multiple Pi's to replace W10

Sat Mar 30, 2019 10:38 am

It's even worse on Android, every app author seems feel a need to spy ;)
Might have to learn how to write Android apps too.

Got two OS books yesterday, learning how to write my own :o
ttps://ultibo.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1269&sid=278831d894aac29b57213233b18bced8
Turned out the GUI was easy, nothing left to do except glue the pieces together.

Windows 10 greatly annoyed me when my hard disk got trashed acting as a server updating someone else's PC.
Now time to reboot and try the Icarus desktop again ;)
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mahjongg
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Re: Multiple Pi's to replace W10

Sat Mar 30, 2019 1:04 pm

could we get on-topic again, and stop swearing.
don't forget our first rule....

fruitoftheloom
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Re: Multiple Pi's to replace W10

Sat Mar 30, 2019 1:52 pm

mahjongg wrote:
Sat Mar 30, 2019 1:04 pm
could we get on-topic again, and stop swearing.
don't forget our first rule....

Yes quite so the OP has been given options & opinions, hopefully the OP will return !!
Retired disgracefully.....

RegB
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Re: Multiple Pi's to replace W10

Wed Sep 04, 2019 10:03 am

Minor step omission on the Ubuntu dual boot thing.
You will need space for it (Captain Obvious said).
On contemporary size drives it is usually easy enough to find 32 or 64 Gig
Before you close down Windoze resize the C partition

Control panel > Administrative tools > Computer Management > Storage > Disc Management > Shrink Volume(right click)

Then when you get to do the Linux install use that free space.

GRUB will take care of multi boot - though on re-boot Linux will be the default system booted.

Remember that when you boot to Linux you will still be able to access everything on the windoze partitions - IIRC you don't even have to be root to open files on the Windoze C: drive.
This can be handy if you ever get locked out of your own Windows files (on the windows side)

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Re: Multiple Pi's to replace W10

Wed Sep 04, 2019 12:13 pm

I dont need multiple RPis to replace W10

at the moment I just need one RPi3B+, still currently my desktop PC....
...based on my use-case (not other's, mine alone!)

Uptimes in rough percentage:
RPi3B+ Raspbian Stretch Desktop: 97%
W10 Laptop: 2% (for running Synctoy only).... but that's going to go away as well in the next few months, making the uptime to probably less than 1%
Other SBC (Stretch/Buster): 1%
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jcyr
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Re: Multiple Pi's to replace W10

Wed Sep 04, 2019 12:41 pm

Depends on how many professional grade tools you need to use. Sadly, many of them only support Windows and others who have Linux versions only support Intel architecture. If you don't use any, then I'm puzzled as to why you want a cluster of Pis when a single one would do?
It's um...uh...well it's kinda like...and it's got a bit of...

RegB
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Re: Multiple Pi's to replace W10

Wed Sep 04, 2019 1:40 pm

BTW, it may be worth mention that clusters (brambles) don't buy you much for "regular" programs,
e.g. programs that have not been written (or have not been adapter/re-written) to take advantage of them.

It isn't as if you can casually type "make" and expect all of your pis to volunteer their services and join in to compile the various bits in parallel.

(I was under a false impression that I could do something very much like that)
I don't think there is (currently) a cluster O/S for ARM that will do all of the behind the scenes work for you either - - BICBW

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Re: Multiple Pi's to replace W10

Wed Sep 04, 2019 2:34 pm

RegB wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 1:40 pm
BTW, it may be worth mention that clusters (brambles) don't buy you much for "regular" programs,
e.g. programs that have not been written (or have not been adapter/re-written) to take advantage of them.

It isn't as if you can casually type "make" and expect all of your pis to volunteer their services and join in to compile the various bits in parallel.

(I was under a false impression that I could do something very much like that)
I don't think there is (currently) a cluster O/S for ARM that will do all of the behind the scenes work for you either - - BICBW
For compilation,. doesn't distcc do what you want? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distcc
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RegB
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Re: Multiple Pi's to replace W10

Wed Sep 04, 2019 6:02 pm

jamesh wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 2:34 pm
RegB wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 1:40 pm
BTW, it may be worth mention that clusters (brambles) don't buy you much for "regular" programs,
e.g. programs that have not been written (or have not been adapter/re-written) to take advantage of them.

It isn't as if you can casually type "make" and expect all of your pis to volunteer their services and join in to compile the various bits in parallel.

(I was under a false impression that I could do something very much like that)
I don't think there is (currently) a cluster O/S for ARM that will do all of the behind the scenes work for you either - - BICBW
For compilation,. doesn't distcc do what you want? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distcc
For "make" yes.
That was largely my point, i.e. for a task to become distributed across several nodes requires a change of tools or significant changes to the task itself.

RegB
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Re: Multiple Pi's to replace W10

Tue Sep 10, 2019 10:17 am

In my various browsing and interest in clusters I came across bccd - - bootable cluster CD.
https://bccd.net

Points in favor;
Debian base, in fact they describe it as a thin veneer laid over Debian.
Open source.
There was a question (about 6 years ago) about compiling for ARM (specifically R Pi) which was met with a very encouraging response.
http://bccd.net/pipermail/bccd-develope ... 06384/html
R Pi has come a LONG WAY in 6 years, whereas it may have been marginal in 2013 the Pi 4 offers MORE !

Points against;
The original developers were focused on x-86 architecture.
There doesn't appear to have been a lot of activity in recent years.

Questions;
Is anyone known to be picking this up with a view to porting it to ARM ?
Anyone WANT to pick this up ?

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Gavinmc42
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Re: Multiple Pi's to replace W10

Thu Sep 12, 2019 5:55 am

Some computer languages allow splitting among computers, Erlang?

There is probably lots for things that might just work when recompiled for Pi's.
It really depends on how clean the code is, assembler optimisations will cause problems.
I am running Desktop GIS software now, not just one but two of them compiled :o

It looks like W10 is working via KVM now too.
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ejolson
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Re: Multiple Pi's to replace W10

Thu Sep 12, 2019 3:09 pm

RegB wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 10:17 am
In my various browsing and interest in clusters I came across bccd - - bootable cluster CD.
https://bccd.net

Points in favor;
Debian base, in fact they describe it as a thin veneer laid over Debian.
Open source.
There was a question (about 6 years ago) about compiling for ARM (specifically R Pi) which was met with a very encouraging response.
http://bccd.net/pipermail/bccd-develope ... 06384/html
R Pi has come a LONG WAY in 6 years, whereas it may have been marginal in 2013 the Pi 4 offers MORE !

Points against;
The original developers were focused on x-86 architecture.
There doesn't appear to have been a lot of activity in recent years.

Questions;
Is anyone known to be picking this up with a view to porting it to ARM ?
Anyone WANT to pick this up ?
Even if ARM compatible, I'm not sure how many Raspberry Pi computers have a CD ROM drive to boot from.

Now that the Pi 4B has true gigabit networking, it makes good sense to cluster them. Rather than a special-purpose distribution targeting clusters, I've always had better results sticking with the most popular distributions. It only takes about 20 or 30 lines of shell script to automate setting up and maintaining a cluster. Generic scripts written by someone else are usually more complicated and never quite work for what needs to be done.

Though they don't discuss this much in a computer-science curriculum, there are many problems which are better to solve one at a time using simple throw-away code, rather than trying to engineer a comprehensive solution for all cases.

RegB
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Re: Multiple Pi's to replace W10

Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:34 am

I see the CD/DVD drive as the least of issues, .
Plenty of USB drives available and (generally) whatever can be burned to CD/DVD as a live distro can be put on a USB stick or SD card.
Net boot ?

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Gavinmc42
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Re: Multiple Pi's to replace W10

Sat Sep 14, 2019 7:01 am

Need to wait for netboot, it's not ready on Pi4's
You could practice with Pi3's.
uSD's are the next CDROM, easier to use on Pi's too.
Or USB stick, as there are more ports for them.
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Heater
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Re: Multiple Pi's to replace W10

Sat Sep 14, 2019 8:07 am

jcyr,

When you say "professional grade tools" do you mean proprietary, closed source tools that only run on Windows and or Mac and one has to pay for?

I ask because I use a lot of tools on Linux that are "professional grade". Starting from the Linux kernel itself. They are however all Free Software and Open Source.

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