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Gavinmc42
Posts: 4534
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 3:31 am

Die shrinking

Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:16 am

For those that don't know
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Die_shrink

The Pi3B+BCM2837 SoC is currently made in 40nm.
Over the years there has been word of Broadcom moving to 28nm as preferred.

A google of Broadcom press releases about 40nm to 28nm die shrinks show figures of 50% power savings.
Small dies, faster chips, lower power, cheaper chips(more per wafer).

A speculated Pi4 with no changes but a die shrunk BCM2837(call it BCM2838).
No redesign for VC5 or more memory or anything, maybe power supply mod?

Is it just a matter of shrinking the artwork or do other things like IO have to change?
Could speeds of the ARM cores and VC4 go up by 50% yet draw less power?

There has been lots of speculating about next Pi's.
But what are the realistic changes we can expect if all we get is 40 to 28nm die shrink?
Anyone got hard figures for die shrinks?

The last time I was in a fab it was 1.5um, so my knowledge is old.

Likewise my DRAM spec sheet knowledge is dated, would a faster RAM be needed, do they exist?
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jahboater
Posts: 5824
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2015 6:38 pm
Location: West Dorset

Re: Die shrinking

Wed Jan 09, 2019 7:36 am

Gavinmc42 wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:16 am
The last time I was in a fab it was 1.5um, so my knowledge is old.
The latest ARM designs are 7nm (the Cortex-A76).
Intel is slowly moving to 10nm for its mainstream CPU's (Cannonlake)

jamesh
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Posts: 26716
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 7:41 pm

Re: Die shrinking

Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:46 am

Gavinmc42 wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:16 am
For those that don't know
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Die_shrink

The Pi3B+BCM2837 SoC is currently made in 40nm.
Over the years there has been word of Broadcom moving to 28nm as preferred.

A google of Broadcom press releases about 40nm to 28nm die shrinks show figures of 50% power savings.
Small dies, faster chips, lower power, cheaper chips(more per wafer).

A speculated Pi4 with no changes but a die shrunk BCM2837(call it BCM2838).
No redesign for VC5 or more memory or anything, maybe power supply mod?

Is it just a matter of shrinking the artwork or do other things like IO have to change?
Could speeds of the ARM cores and VC4 go up by 50% yet draw less power?

There has been lots of speculating about next Pi's.
But what are the realistic changes we can expect if all we get is 40 to 28nm die shrink?
Anyone got hard figures for die shrinks?

The last time I was in a fab it was 1.5um, so my knowledge is old.

Likewise my DRAM spec sheet knowledge is dated, would a faster RAM be needed, do they exist?
It's not just a matter of shrinking the artwork (masks), otherwise it woudl be easy moving to another process node. It isn't. The original VC3 was on 65nm, and when we moved to the vc4 a lot of stuff was shrunk to 40nm. It's not easy, gates behave differently at different process nodes, so lots of things change.

As for the "What's in the future stuff" I would have thought people by now would have got the hint that these sorts of threads are discouraged as they basically just repeat themselves.

Patience. The Pi4 will come out when the Pi4 comes out. And it will have cool stuff. There are a lot of changes, so most of your questions are moot.
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