bullen
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Java future on ARM

Wed Oct 24, 2018 10:05 pm

So with the new "DIY" approach from Oracle; when can one expect to see a "fully performant (same JVM core performance as the current Oracle JDK) and open source" version of the OpenSDK JDK on apt-get?

Some say Java 10 is the version I'm looking for, some say Java 11... it's messy!
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jamesh
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Re: Java future on ARM

Thu Oct 25, 2018 8:30 am

You probably need to ask the openjdk devs that.
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bullen
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Re: Java future on ARM

Thu Oct 25, 2018 11:12 am

Ok, feels a bit like "pushing the problem onto someone else".

Found this: https://blogs.oracle.com/jtc/build-jdk- ... our-device

And it makes more sense if someone "trusted" does this once and puts it on the raspbian repository, than everyone compiling this for 3.5 hours individually?

If that "trusted" person is you James or someone at OpenJDK makes no difference to us.

Edit: Just realized I too did the "pushing the problem onto someone else" there :\ well at least I gave a good argument for it! ;)
Last edited by bullen on Thu Oct 25, 2018 11:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
https://github.com/tinspin/rupy - A tiny Java async HTTP application server.

fruitoftheloom
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Re: Java future on ARM

Thu Oct 25, 2018 11:24 am

bullen wrote:
Thu Oct 25, 2018 11:12 am
Ok, feels a bit like "pushing the problem onto someone else".

Found this: https://blogs.oracle.com/jtc/build-jdk- ... our-device

And it makes more sense if someone "trusted" does this once and puts it on the raspbian repository, than everyone compiling this for 3.5 hours individually?

If that "trusted" person is you James or someone at OpenJDK makes no difference to us.

Edit: Just realized I too did the "pushing the problem onto someone else" there :\ well at least I gave a good argument for it! ;)

Please explain how the RPT / RPF using valuable hours creating a Raspbian Package and offering ongoing support helps the RPF fulfill their "Mission Statement" of Education and Learning.

https://www.raspberrypi.org/about/


FYI Debian list OpenJDK 10 in Buster Testing:

https://packages.debian.org/buster/openjdk-10-jdk
Adieu

jamesh
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Re: Java future on ARM

Thu Oct 25, 2018 11:26 am

Ah, I've misread your post I think.

What you are asking for is a newer version of OpenJDK in the repos?
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bullen
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Re: Java future on ARM

Thu Oct 25, 2018 11:27 am

@fruitoftheloom They don't have to support it, it's open source.

So when is the release of Raspbian Buster planned for?

@jamesh Yes, can I just add the debian repository to apt-get for that? https://packages.debian.org/buster/armh ... k/download
Last edited by bullen on Thu Oct 25, 2018 11:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
https://github.com/tinspin/rupy - A tiny Java async HTTP application server.

fruitoftheloom
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Re: Java future on ARM

Thu Oct 25, 2018 11:48 am

bullen wrote:
Thu Oct 25, 2018 11:27 am
@fruitoftheloom They don't have to support it, it's open source.

So when is the release of Raspbian Buster planned for?

@jamesh Yes, can I just add the debian repository to apt-get for that? https://packages.debian.org/buster/armh ... k/download


If a package is offered in the Raspbian Stretch repository provided by RPT / RPT then it will have to have updates, that takes time and effort, there is nothing from stopping you offering a package to the Community.



Buster is loosely slated for next spring as per Debian's page found via Googling:

https://wiki.debian.org/DebianBuster


Adding Debian Mirrors will likely break Raspbian Stretch !!
Adieu

bullen
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Re: Java future on ARM

Thu Oct 25, 2018 11:49 am

"it will have to have updates" - Why?

In this particular case where the future of Java on ARM is at stake (the old OpenJDK ARM release is like 4x slower than the Oracle JDK one) it makes sense to just push a "most recent" build periodically to the raspbian repository until we can ascertain that the claims from Oracle (that the performance of the open source version of Java will be identical to the closed source Oracle JVM) has been prooven true.

"Adding Debian Mirrors will likely break Raspbian Stretch !!" - Ok, thx!
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jamesh
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Re: Java future on ARM

Sat Oct 27, 2018 12:36 pm

Ocassionally we do add more recent versions to our repo that those in standard Debian. I'll ask on Monday if the latest OpenJDK would be considered.
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bullen
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Re: Java future on ARM

Sun Oct 28, 2018 4:27 pm

Ok, thx.

According to this guy the common binary will be in Java 11: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFfTqUQxFTs
https://github.com/tinspin/rupy - A tiny Java async HTTP application server.

bullen
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Re: Java future on ARM

Thu Nov 08, 2018 2:45 am

Any news on this?
https://github.com/tinspin/rupy - A tiny Java async HTTP application server.

jamesh
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Re: Java future on ARM

Thu Nov 08, 2018 11:04 am

Not that I have heard of. I'll ping some people, but its probably not a priority given we have a chunk of work on at the moment.
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bullen
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Re: Java future on ARM

Thu Nov 08, 2018 2:17 pm

Do you have a public tracker for the software projects you are working on?

I'm very pleased to see the missing software to make Aeon Alpha run on a raspberry was fixed in about one year. (rpi audio and Java pulse)

But I cannot imagine what software is now still in limbo?
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ShiftPlusOne
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Re: Java future on ARM

Thu Nov 08, 2018 2:30 pm

There are no plans to add OpenJDK 11 to Stretch.

jamesh
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Re: Java future on ARM

Thu Nov 08, 2018 2:40 pm

bullen wrote:
Thu Nov 08, 2018 2:17 pm
Do you have a public tracker for the software projects you are working on?

I'm very pleased to see the missing software to make Aeon Alpha run on a raspberry was fixed in about one year. (rpi audio and Java pulse)

But I cannot imagine what software is now still in limbo?
No, we don't have a tracker, since the majority of projects currently underway are unrelated to current releases, and are strictly private. The majority of work done on current releases is bug fixes when necessary, rather that specific projects.
Principal Software Engineer at Raspberry Pi (Trading) Ltd.
Please direct all questions to the forum, I do not do support via PM.

bullen
Posts: 252
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Re: Java future on ARM

Thu Nov 08, 2018 2:57 pm

ShiftPlusOne wrote:
Thu Nov 08, 2018 2:30 pm
There are no plans to add OpenJDK 11 to Stretch.
:(
https://github.com/tinspin/rupy - A tiny Java async HTTP application server.

fruitoftheloom
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Re: Java future on ARM

Thu Nov 08, 2018 3:20 pm

bullen wrote:
Thu Nov 08, 2018 2:57 pm
ShiftPlusOne wrote:
Thu Nov 08, 2018 2:30 pm
There are no plans to add OpenJDK 11 to Stretch.
:(

You could fully update Stretch then reboot, then change Stretch to Buster in the repositories, install software, reboot then change repositories back to Stretch and hope it works !!

https://packages.debian.org/buster/openjdk-11-jdk

Always back up first......


Alternatively just run Buster Testing and put up with foibles !!
Adieu

bullen
Posts: 252
Joined: Sun Apr 28, 2013 2:52 pm

Re: Java future on ARM

Thu Nov 08, 2018 3:54 pm

Aha thx for the tip... might try this if desperate or just let time solve things for me as usual! ;)
https://github.com/tinspin/rupy - A tiny Java async HTTP application server.

ShiftPlusOne
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Re: Java future on ARM

Thu Nov 08, 2018 4:00 pm

Before you go down any more rabbit holes, are you sure OpenJDK 10 doesn't already have the features that you want?

When I updated to OpenJDK 10, I was told it's because it uses the Java instruction set on the ARM, which was formerly locked down. It kind of sounds like that's what you were looking for.

bullen
Posts: 252
Joined: Sun Apr 28, 2013 2:52 pm

Re: Java future on ARM

Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:34 pm

Aha, interesting!
https://github.com/tinspin/rupy - A tiny Java async HTTP application server.

knute
Posts: 353
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Re: Java future on ARM

Sat Nov 10, 2018 10:15 pm

openjdk-9 is available in the stretch repository now. I don't think 10 is going to give you anything substantial over 9. 11 is the long term support version. I would hope that 11 is incorporated into buster but who knows.

I'm running openjdk-8 which is version 1.8.0_181 on one machine. I haven't noticed any performance drop from the oracle version but I didn't look at any in between.

knute
Posts: 353
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Re: Java future on ARM

Sun Nov 11, 2018 4:09 pm

I found a testing build of jdk-11 for arm on Aleksey Shipilev's site, https://shipilev.net/. The jdk-11 for arm builds are at https://builds.shipilev.net/openjdk-jdk11/. I tried it on my Pi3+ and it seems to work fine. You can get openjfx11 early access at https://gluonhq.com/products/javafx/. I tried it with a simple program and it too seems to work fine.

jdk-8 still has a lot of capabilities and on the Pi it sure seems like it will be the default for a while. jdk-9 is available now and it has the new module environment it you want to start developing with that. jdk-11 is where things are going and you can run Shipilev's binaries or compile it yourself if you want.

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