ggarg118
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Desktop less (Linux based) OS for RPI

Sat Aug 11, 2018 2:38 pm

folks.. i am looking for some Desktop less OS for RPI pretty much similar to Windows 10 IOT and Android things but other than these.
Any suggestion?

Heater
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Re: Desktop less (Linux based) OS for RPI

Sat Aug 11, 2018 5:39 pm

B.Goode,
Personally I think it confuses the issue to refer to these cooperating frameworks as 'Operating Systems'
I'm not sure what you mean by that.

If a user can interact with the thing, write software, run software, etc, etc, than that is an operating system. Even if it does not have a graphical user interface or any weird abstractions like "desktop" or any GUI applications.

Raspbian Lite is a fine example of a "headless" operating system.

drgeoff
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Re: Desktop less (Linux based) OS for RPI

Sat Aug 11, 2018 7:48 pm

Heater wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 5:39 pm
Raspbian Lite is a fine example of a "headless" operating system.
I would not classify Raspbian Lite as a headless OS but surely it is, in the words of the OP, a "Desktop less (Linux based) OS for RPi"

Heater
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Re: Desktop less (Linux based) OS for RPI

Sat Aug 11, 2018 8:05 pm

Why not?

Do we have a terminology problem here?

Traditionally "headless" referred to a system with no user interface. No display, keyboard, mouse, etc.

That is how most of my Pi installations work. Mostly using Raspbian Lite.

n67
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Re: Desktop less (Linux based) OS for RPI

Sat Aug 11, 2018 8:12 pm

Heater wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 8:05 pm
Why not?

Do we have a terminology problem here?

Traditionally "headless" referred to a system with no user interface. No display, keyboard, mouse, etc.

That is how most of my Pi installations work. Mostly using Raspbian Lite.
"Headless" is a description of a hardware configuration, not of an OS.

For example, one of my Pis runs full Raspbian, but is "headless".
"L'enfer, c'est les autres"

drgeoff
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Re: Desktop less (Linux based) OS for RPI

Sat Aug 11, 2018 9:06 pm

Even if there was an agreed definition of "headless" and we could say whether it was meaningful to apply it to an OS and, if yes to that, which side of the line Raspbian Lite lies on, I doubt the answers would benefit the OP.

More to the point, is there some reason that Raspbian Lite would not meet the OP's actual needs for his task?

hippy
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Re: Desktop less (Linux based) OS for RPI

Sat Aug 11, 2018 11:06 pm

Just to note the OP said "Desktop less", not "Headless".

I imagine he means he wants some way of being able to display full-screen from a standalone app without a desktop or windows manager getting in the way.

So Raspbian Lite would seem to be up to the job, even Raspbian Full with boot to CLI selected.

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HawaiianPi
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Re: Desktop less (Linux based) OS for RPI

Sun Aug 12, 2018 12:51 am

Any OS can be "headless" with some kind of remote access, even the Desktop version of Raspbian (using VNC).

Raspbian Lite is a CLI, or command line interface based OS. There is no "Desktop" GUI, which makes it very lightweight, and you interact with it by typing commands into the CLI. This can be done directly with a keyboard and screen, or you can run it on a headless PI and connect via SSH. If the OP wants a lightweight OS with no GUI, Raspbian Lite is the officially supported OS. I have a few headless Pi computers running Raspbian Lite, and a Tinker Board running the "Lite" equivalent version of Armbian (also available for the Pi).

For the Pi models with an Ethernet port, headless access will require a network connection (wired or wireless). For the Pi Zero, you also have the option of running in USB Gadget mode and connecting via SSH over a USB cable.

This is the procedure I use for setting up headless boot with SSH and wireless network. It works with Raspbian Jessie or Stretch, Desktop or Lite, and with the built-in WiFi on the Pi3B(+) & Pi Zero W, or a Raspbian compatible USB WiFi dongle on other models. Everything is done before you boot, and can be done on a Windows or Mac computer which only has access to the small FAT32 "boot" partition of a Raspbian imaged SD card.
  1. Grab the latest Raspbian image from https://www.raspberrypi.org/downloads/raspbian/
  2. Grab the Etcher software from https://etcher.io/
  3. Use Etcher to write the Raspbian image to your SD card.
    • You don't need to extract the image or format the card prior to writing.
    • Just run Etcher, choose the Raspbian .zip you downloaded, pick your SD card and write.
    • If you have trouble, verify the SHA256 checksum of the download.
    • Writing an image to your card will erase everything previously on it!
  4. Remove and reinsert the SD card so that your Windows or Mac PC can see the small FAT32 partition on the card (labelled "boot").
    • If you get a message telling you the card must be formatted, cancel it.
  5. On that small FAT32 partition, create a file with the name ssh (or ssh.txt). It can be empty, the contents don't matter.
  6. To connect to a wireless network, create another file on the card called wpa_supplicant.conf, which has the following inside:

    Code: Select all

    ctrl_interface=DIR=/var/run/wpa_supplicant GROUP=netdev
    update_config=1
    country=US
    
    network={
         ssid="Your network name/SSID"
         psk="Your WPA/WPA2 security key"
         key_mgmt=WPA-PSK
    }
    • Edit country=, ssid= and psk= with your information and save the file.
    • Use the 2 letter country abbreviation in CAPS (without this you will have no WiFi).
    • Use a pure text editor, not a word processor, to edit the wpa_supplicant.conf file.
  7. Make sure that both files are in the main directory of the small FAT32 partition, not in any folder.
  8. Safely eject the card from your PC and use it to boot the Pi.
If Raspbian finds an ssh file it will enable SSH and delete the file. If it finds a wpa_supplicant.conf file, it will move it to its correct location and connect to your wireless network. Give your Pi some time to boot and connect to your network (the first boot always takes longer), then you should be able to SSH into the Pi and configure it how you like.

If you have a Zeroconf network service installed (Apple's iTunes or Bonjour install Zeroconf to Windows), you can SSH into [email protected]cal (provided you don't have any other Pi computers on your network with the same default hostname). Otherwise you must SSH into your Pi's IP address, which you can find by logging into your router and checking the list of connected clients, or using a network scanner app (like Fing for smartphones).

To login using SSH from Windows, you can use an app called PuTTY, which looks like this (click picture for download link).
Image

In the Host Name (or IP address) field, enter either, make sure SSH is selected (it should be by default) and click on Open.

If you have done everything correctly, a terminal window will open and you should see a password request. Although, if it's the first time you've connected to your Pi, you may have to answer "yes" to a security question, and then you'll get the password prompt. After login you'll get a warning about having SSH enabled with the default password, so type passwd[Enter] and enter a new password (twice). And now you can do whatever you need to configure your little Raspberry Pi computer.

Code: Select all

sudo raspi-config
Will bring up the Raspbian configuration utility. If you have more than one Raspberry Pi computer on your network it's a good idea to change the hostnames to something unique so that they can easily be identified.

Note:
If you have attempted this and failed, then unplugged power to turn off your Pi, you should start over with a freshly imaged card. Improperly powering down the Pi can cause SSH key generation to fail, which will prevent SSH logins (even if everything else is correct).

Alternatives to PuTTY:
If your main PC has the Windows 10 OS, there are 2 alternatives to PuTTY. The Windows 10 Fall Creators Update (2017) added the ability to install the Windows Subsystem for Linux, which is a Linux Bash shell for Windows (there are a few different versions of Linux in the Microsoft Store). And the recent Windows 10 Spring Update (2018) added OpenSSH directly to the Windows command and powershell utilities.
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ggarg118
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Re: Desktop less (Linux based) OS for RPI

Mon Aug 13, 2018 2:57 am

folks... Thanx for the replies.. I wasn't sure whether the RPI community is so much active.
"Headless" I believe is the term used for the application running WITHOUT SCREEN. The OS may or may not be capable of running a GUI.

My App is not HEADLESS. Its a complete GUI based. All i dont want is a Desktop, File Explorer, etc etc. As Windows10 IOT, it doesn't offer you any Desktop and the user can create its own app from scratch.

"Raspbian Stretch Lite" (not sure although) is a command line interface. I don't think i can run my GUI there.

Heater
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Re: Desktop less (Linux based) OS for RPI

Mon Aug 13, 2018 6:08 am

It is quite possible to run X Windows with no desktop, no icons, no menus, no window boarders, no login greeter, nothing.

What you get is a blank grey screen. With perhaps a mouse cursor on it.

Then when you somehow get your application started and it will display on that grey background, without any window boarder or window controls. With suitable parameters at startup the application can occupy the entire screen.

I'd like to be able to tell you how to do this but I have not done it since the late 1990's and have long since forgotten.

You going to have to dive into X configuration and it's start up.

See here:

https://linuxconfig.org/how-to-run-x-ap ... op-or-a-wm

https://raspberrypi.stackexchange.com/q ... ow-manager

https://www.linuxquestions.org/question ... de-804021/

http://www.nongnu.org/ratpoison/

https://askubuntu.com/questions/79804/r ... ow-manager

Heater
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Re: Desktop less (Linux based) OS for RPI

Mon Aug 13, 2018 6:11 am

Alternatively, if you write your application in C++ and use the Qt graphics libraries the resulting program can be run directly into the frame buffer. No X required at all!

Such a Qt application can also make use of accelerated 3D graphics in that frame buffer.

Presumably other languages that have bindings to Qt5 could also be used.

ggarg118
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Re: Desktop less (Linux based) OS for RPI

Mon Aug 13, 2018 7:05 am

Heater wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 6:11 am
Alternatively, if you write your application in C++ and use the Qt graphics libraries the resulting program can be run directly into the frame buffer. No X required at all!

Such a Qt application can also make use of accelerated 3D graphics in that frame buffer.

Presumably other languages that have bindings to Qt5 could also be used.
yeah, I am making that app on Qt/c++ only. It gives me an executable. My issue is user have to double click it in order to run that application and can minimize or close that application anytime and use that machine as normal PC which i dont want. Windows10 IOT core provides very excellent method to do this as it provides only core windows libraries with file explorer, thus making my machine made for that app only. Just like an kiosk or POS machine

ggarg118
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Re: Desktop less (Linux based) OS for RPI

Mon Aug 13, 2018 7:11 am


yeah, I am making that app on Qt/c++ only. It gives me an executable. My issue is user have to double click it in order to run that application and can minimize or close that application anytime and use that machine as normal PC which i dont want. Windows10 IOT core provides very excellent method to do this as it provides only core windows libraries
with
file explorer, thus making my machine made for that app only. Just like an kiosk or POS machine
without

Heater
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Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 3:02 pm

Re: Desktop less (Linux based) OS for RPI

Mon Aug 13, 2018 8:32 am

As I indicated above, Raspbian provides very excellent method to do this as it provides X Window System libraries.

Just don't use all the other junk than normally comes on top.

ggarg118
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Re: Desktop less (Linux based) OS for RPI

Mon Aug 13, 2018 3:01 pm

Heater wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 8:32 am

Just don't use all the other junk than normally comes on top.
But the user will still have permission to close or minimize my app and use it by any other way?

Heater
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Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 3:02 pm

Re: Desktop less (Linux based) OS for RPI

Mon Aug 13, 2018 3:27 pm

If your application is running into an X Window and there is no desktop or window manager, etc, running then the user has no minimize, maximize, close buttons. The app is just a boarderless rectangle on the screen. Perhaps full screen.

So unless your application provides such things the user cannot do that.

You may have to deal with signals some how. Control-C from the keyboard for example.

I'm sure it's possible. As I said, it's a long time since I did such things.

timrowledge
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Re: Desktop less (Linux based) OS for RPI

Mon Aug 13, 2018 3:51 pm

Raspbian lite and Squeak in framebuffer mode.
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HawaiianPi
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Re: Desktop less (Linux based) OS for RPI

Mon Aug 13, 2018 11:03 pm

ggarg118 wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 7:05 am
Windows10 IOT core provides very excellent method to do this as it provides only core windows libraries with file explorer, thus making my machine made for that app only. Just like an kiosk or POS machine
So why don't you just use Windows 10 IOT Core, since it seems to do exactly what you want?

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/downloa ... x?id=53360
My mind is like a browser. 27 tabs are open, 9 aren't responding,
lots of pop-ups...and where is that annoying music coming from?

Heater
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Re: Desktop less (Linux based) OS for RPI

Tue Aug 14, 2018 2:53 am

Because:

You need a Windows 10 machine in order to use Win 10 IoT.

You get locked in to MS.

Who knows how long MS will support Win 10 IoT on the Pi.

It's closed source and inflexible.

The Open Source and Free Software alternative will work just as well. Perhaps better.

There will be far more support available for the Open Source and Free Software alternative.

ggarg118
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Re: Desktop less (Linux based) OS for RPI

Tue Aug 14, 2018 6:34 am

Heater wrote:
Tue Aug 14, 2018 2:53 am
Because:

You need a Windows 10 machine in order to use Win 10 IoT.

You get locked in to MS.

Who knows how long MS will support Win 10 IoT on the Pi.

It's closed source and inflexible.

The Open Source and Free Software alternative will work just as well. Perhaps better.

There will be far more support available for the Open Source and Free Software alternative.
Exactly

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