Geeman2000
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Just out of curiosity, what x86 is RPi3 equivalent.

Fri Dec 30, 2016 7:21 am

Does anyone have a feel for what old PC processor the RPi3 would be similar too? Something like 286 or 386?

gregeric
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Re: Just out of curiosity, what x86 is RPi3 equivalent.

Fri Dec 30, 2016 7:35 am

The comparison for the original Model B was "overall real world performance is something like a 300MHz Pentium 2, only with much, much swankier graphics".

I think it's claimed the Pi3 offers ~10x the performance of the original Model B, so it's whatever x86 offers 10x the performance of a 300MHz Pentium 2. Or something like that.

Heater
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Re: Just out of curiosity, what x86 is RPi3 equivalent.

Fri Dec 30, 2016 8:04 am

Which aspect of these machines do you want to compare?

Single core instruction execution rate or MIPS or FLOPS.
Multi core capability.
Power consumption.
Size.
I/O through put.
....

I could say that Intel processors did not get to where the Pi 3 is today until 2010 when the first x86 with integrated a GPU on the chip came out.

That Intel chip's GPU managed about 50GFLOPS where the PI is about 25GFLOPS.

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bensimmo
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Re: Just out of curiosity, what x86 is RPi3 equivalent.

Fri Dec 30, 2016 9:29 am

I think it's a bit hard to say,
Here are some benchmarks and good for some reading.
https://www.element14.com/community/com ... hmark-ever


The problem is Intel had a good FPU as you can see even back in the P3 era and the RPi3 does not in comparison but its integer is better than that level.

Hence it depends on what you do.
Then you hit other instruction sets like SSE and NEON and multiprocessor, that is before you start to use 'GPU' potential for running instructions.

So I have no idea.

But PIXEL reminds me of using Linux's back on my Pi3 1GHz (Dell Inspiron laptop) and AthlonXPs.
My PentiumM's seemed to be quicker in desktop use from memory.
But once I remember where I put them I can get them out and have a play with Pixel on them.

A 6 year old Pentium Dual T4500 2.2GHz is a lot faster in Pixel use ;-)
You can tell instantly as soon as you do anything.

They all sip more power and take a lot more room.

Geeman2000
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Re: Just out of curiosity, what x86 is RPi3 equivalent.

Fri Dec 30, 2016 9:31 am

I know there is an array of specs, just in general I was thinking back to my first laptop (286, 40Mb hdd, 12Mb RAM Win3.1, cost 1 - 2 months pay) while I was setting up a new install on RPi.

Any way it looks like it's at least later Pentium series possibly considerably better.

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bensimmo
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Re: Just out of curiosity, what x86 is RPi3 equivalent.

Fri Dec 30, 2016 9:37 am

I suppose I should add.
I did not have to run the mass processor intensive data using 'Internet' and Chrome we have nowadays back them.
I'm sure the Intel P-3 and even the P-Ms would-be killing themselves now, in fact I'm sure that was one of the reasons for looking for something a bit newer.
Well that and track pads/nipples and casing gradually giving up even with all the spares I had to keep them going.

fruitoftheloom
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Re: Just out of curiosity, what x86 is RPi3 equivalent.

Fri Dec 30, 2016 9:37 am

Geeman2000 wrote:Does anyone have a feel for what old PC processor the RPi3 would be similar too? Something like 286 or 386?
The ARM CPU architecture is quite different to a x86 CPU Architectur so any comparison is largely meaningless.

Though as we are playing fantasy would say running Windows XP on the last of the Pentium 4 Socket 478 CPU is a "reasonable" comparision when undertaking Web Browsing and Office Suite tasks in the latest Raspbian Jessie with Pixel.
Adieu

gregeric
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Re: Just out of curiosity, what x86 is RPi3 equivalent.

Fri Dec 30, 2016 10:05 am

fruitoftheloom wrote:The ARM CPU architecture is quite different to a x86 CPU Architectur so any comparison is largely meaningless.
That's a complete non-sequitur. We have computers to aid us with... computational tasks. Of course you can derive useful comparisons between two beige boxes given the same computational task you demand of it, be it ray-tracing, finite-element analysis, calculating the digits of pi, or rendering a web page.
fruitoftheloom wrote:Though as we are playing fantasy would say running Windows XP on the last of the Pentium 4 Socket 478 CPU is a "reasonable" comparision when undertaking Web Browsing and Office Suite tasks in the latest Raspbian Jessie with Pixel.
If we are trying to find the equivalent computational power of the underlying hardware, a better comparison would be RPi3 running Raspbian Pixel vs x86 box running Debian Pixel - why conflate the comparison by introducing another OS?

gregeric
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Re: Just out of curiosity, what x86 is RPi3 equivalent.

Fri Dec 30, 2016 10:30 am

fruitoftheloom wrote:What part of Fantasy do you not comprehend ???
Your bonkers usage of capital letters on the beginning of random words, for one.

jb63
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Re: Just out of curiosity, what x86 is RPi3 equivalent.

Fri Dec 30, 2016 2:51 pm

Rather than going into all the reasons as to why a comparison is meaningful or not, we need to try and understand the question form the OP. I must admit it is a very legitimate question.

The computers around us are 'replete' (full) of metrics that help us assess the performance(s) of machines we use. Examples:

1. User Performance Index in WIndows - tells you how each component (graphics, processor, RAM, storage, ... ) is performing.

2. Matlab 'bench' function - runs a series of matrix calculations and 2D/3D graphics and outputs a series of performance factors that are then lumped into a single number to rate the specific conputer's 'overall' performance'.

So, while there might not be a 'single' answer to the OP's question, one for sure can give it an honest attempt. Examples?

1. Typical performance for doing excel/spreadsheet calculations
2. Running Mathematica on RPI vs x86 (granted, software versions are NOT the same)
3. Web browsing - no need here to load the two procesors with the same pages as the demands back in x86 time were very small, compared to the web pages we have today (java and the like, vs static GIFs 10-20 years ago)

Anyone willing to give this a try?

fruitoftheloom
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Re: Just out of curiosity, what x86 is RPi3 equivalent.

Fri Dec 30, 2016 3:28 pm

jb63 wrote:Rather than going into all the reasons as to why a comparison is meaningful or not, we need to try and understand the question form the OP. I must admit it is a very legitimate question.

The computers around us are 'replete' (full) of metrics that help us assess the performance(s) of machines we use. Examples:

1. User Performance Index in WIndows - tells you how each component (graphics, processor, RAM, storage, ... ) is performing.

2. Matlab 'bench' function - runs a series of matrix calculations and 2D/3D graphics and outputs a series of performance factors that are then lumped into a single number to rate the specific conputer's 'overall' performance'.

So, while there might not be a 'single' answer to the OP's question, one for sure can give it an honest attempt. Examples?

1. Typical performance for doing excel/spreadsheet calculations
2. Running Mathematica on RPI vs x86 (granted, software versions are NOT the same)
3. Web browsing - no need here to load the two procesors with the same pages as the demands back in x86 time were very small, compared to the web pages we have today (java and the like, vs static GIFs 10-20 years ago)

Anyone willing to give this a try?
This what OP wrote:
Geeman2000 wrote:Does anyone have a feel for what old PC processor the RPi3 would be similar too? Something like 286 or 386?
http://www.androidauthority.com/arm-vs- ... ed-568718/
Adieu

mikerr
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Re: Just out of curiosity, what x86 is RPi3 equivalent.

Fri Dec 30, 2016 3:36 pm

IMO the equivalent to the Pi3's A53 is something like an Intel Atom (i.e. low end netbook / chromebook)
(or older Pentium 4 -certainly much better than a 486 !)

Subjective desktop performance seems to bear that out.

Now we have PIXEL on x86 and pi - we could actually do a proper comparison using same OS and apps...
Android app - Raspi Card Imager - download and image SD cards - No PC required !

W. H. Heydt
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Re: Just out of curiosity, what x86 is RPi3 equivalent.

Fri Dec 30, 2016 5:12 pm

It's not a benchmark, but--rather--more of a "stake in the ground" to compare a system I built in 2002 to see if an SBC can handle the load it was built for.

Relevant machine specs: Dual Opteron 240 (1.4GHz). 2GB ECC DDR RAM. 3 36GB SATA-I WD Raptor HDDs. nVidia 5200 GPU. OS SuSE 9.2.

For the intended job, that machine was replaced by a Cubieboard 2.

While I mostly haven't benchmarked the Opteron system against a Pi3B, I did run disk I/O benchmarks and the old system was decidedly faster than a Pi3B, but read speed is slower than the Cubieboard 2 (it has a native SATA-II interface, hence my choice). The one SBC that I have that can beat the I/O speed all around is a Roseapple Pi using an SSD attached to its USB 3.0 port.

So...right now, with the exception of I/O speed, a Pi3B is a decent match, at least on paper, to a machine that cost $2000 to build in 2002.

jamesh
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Re: Just out of curiosity, what x86 is RPi3 equivalent.

Fri Dec 30, 2016 6:26 pm

fruitoftheloom wrote:
Geeman2000 wrote:Does anyone have a feel for what old PC processor the RPi3 would be similar too? Something like 286 or 386?
The ARM CPU architecture is quite different to a x86 CPU Architectur so any comparison is largely meaningless.

Though as we are playing fantasy would say running Windows XP on the last of the Pentium 4 Socket 478 CPU is a "reasonable" comparision when undertaking Web Browsing and Office Suite tasks in the latest Raspbian Jessie with Pixel.
The architectures are pretty much the same - they are both Von Neuman or Harvard (can never remember which is which) architectures AFAIK. They do have different instructions sets however....
Principal Software Engineer at Raspberry Pi (Trading) Ltd.
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fruitoftheloom
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Re: Just out of curiosity, what x86 is RPi3 equivalent.

Fri Dec 30, 2016 6:45 pm

jamesh wrote:
fruitoftheloom wrote:
Geeman2000 wrote:Does anyone have a feel for what old PC processor the RPi3 would be similar too? Something like 286 or 386?
The ARM CPU architecture is quite different to a x86 CPU Architectur so any comparison is largely meaningless.

Though as we are playing fantasy would say running Windows XP on the last of the Pentium 4 Socket 478 CPU is a "reasonable" comparision when undertaking Web Browsing and Office Suite tasks in the latest Raspbian Jessie with Pixel.
The architectures are pretty much the same - they are both Von Neuman or Harvard (can never remember which is which) architectures AFAIK. They do have different instructions sets however....
Semantics, still a pretty stupid question, which over the last 6 years has been regurgitated in different guises and likely will be ad-infinitum........
Adieu

jamesh
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Re: Just out of curiosity, what x86 is RPi3 equivalent.

Fri Dec 30, 2016 6:54 pm

No, not semantics, accuracy. Please learn what a CPU architecture actually means during your day off.

With regard to the content of this thread, I have left it running because it's actually a useful exercise. In effect, what era of x86 does the current Pi3 represent. It nothing to do with architectures, with benchmarks, with fine details, but just with how does it feel to use.
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james-at-lo-tech
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Re: Just out of curiosity, what x86 is RPi3 equivalent.

Fri Dec 30, 2016 8:36 pm

According to Geekbench, it scores about the same as an iPhone 6 or an Intel E5300.

RPi: https://browser.primatelabs.com/geekbench2/2596704
Charts: https://browser.primatelabs.com/processor-benchmarks/

It really does depend on the application though; some database needing heaps of IOPS will be fairly hopeless compared to anything with a SATA SSD attached. Then there is the lack of RAM to contend with.

That's not to knock the RPi though, I have them deployed extensively as syslog servers, user terminals, cycling media playback devices, remote monitoring devices, layer 2 LAN extensions between sites, and more besides. Sometimes performance issues surface in user terminal applications, like Youtube playback or flash media on e.g. BBC News site.

But for 1 Watt and £25, really it is a triumph indeed.

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bensimmo
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Re: Just out of curiosity, what x86 is RPi3 equivalent.

Fri Dec 30, 2016 9:55 pm

Do those two compare, I don;t know GeekBench scores. But one is a trial/test v2 Geekbench and the others are newer.


Given the PC with T4500 (geekbech processor of 1240) is next to me and is a lot smoother running Pixel and Chromium etc than my Pi3 (geekbench 2 of 2128) something doesn't seem to 'add up' :|
maybe it's the keyboard...


A quick search
Geekbench 4
(android ?)
http://browser.primatelabs.com/v4/cpu/s ... spberry+Pi ~480/1200 (single/multi core)

T4500 (in a medion) 1200/2000

sounds more like it.

ejolson
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Re: Just out of curiosity, what x86 is RPi3 equivalent.

Fri Dec 30, 2016 10:34 pm

james-at-lo-tech wrote:According to Geekbench, it scores about the same as an iPhone 6 or an Intel E5300.
From what I can tell, the E5300 is one of a series of CPUs which were introduced around 2007 as alternatives to the Pentium 4 NetBurst architecture. They are essentially scaled back versions of the Pentium Core Duo. Systems with 1GB RAM capacity started appearing with later Pentium III machines in 2003. The 480 mbit speed of the USB2 system bus was surpassed with PCI in the original Pentium design around 1993. The VC4 GPU is advertised as having a performance of 24 single-precision GFLOPS, which is less than a Radeon HD 4350 from 2008. In summary,

Code: Select all

Raspberry Pi 3B      PC Equivalent     Year
--------------------------------------------
4-core ARMv8         Intel E5300       2007
1GB RAM              Pentium III       2003
480 mbit USB         PCI33             1993
VC4 GPU              Radeon HD4350     2008  
Clearly using a single USB port as the system bus is the weakest point of the current Pi 3B design. Such a slow system bus also makes the 1GB RAM limitation worse as there is no high-speed swap available. Therefore, depending on your usage, the Pi 3B will perform similarly to a PC that is anywhere from 8 to 23 years old.

There is a similar thread here.

W. H. Heydt
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Re: Just out of curiosity, what x86 is RPi3 equivalent.

Fri Dec 30, 2016 11:06 pm

ejolson wrote:Clearly using a single USB port as the system bus is the weakest point of the current Pi 3B design. Such a slow system bus also makes the 1GB RAM limitation worse as there is no high-speed swap available. Therefore, depending on your usage, the Pi 3B will perform similarly to a PC that is anywhere from 8 to 23 years old.
I think the early end of that can be brought forward a few years, since the max memory normally supported in Win98 was 512MB.

fruitoftheloom
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Re: Just out of curiosity, what x86 is RPi3 equivalent.

Sat Dec 31, 2016 7:45 pm

Geeman2000 wrote:Does anyone have a feel for what old PC processor the RPi3 would be similar too? Something like 286 or 386?
Depends on the operating system / software you are running and if the specific operating system / software is optimised for the hardware it is running on.

Therefore please can you provide an example of what exactly you would like a comparison of.........
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gregeric
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Re: Just out of curiosity, what x86 is RPi3 equivalent.

Sat Dec 31, 2016 8:27 pm

From what ejolson and others have put forward, we can update the original, official (@EU?) 'something like' quote, "overall real world performance is something like a 300MHz Pentium 2, only with much, much swankier graphics" for a Pi3 to:

A 2007 era desktop class processor, constrained to 1GB RAM, still retaining the 's' on the "swankier" graphics (but without the "much, much"), and with weaker i/o.

fruitoftheloom
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Re: Just out of curiosity, what x86 is RPi3 equivalent.

Sat Dec 31, 2016 8:42 pm

gregeric wrote:From what ejolson and others have put forward, we can update the original, official (@EU?) 'something like' quote, "overall real world performance is something like a 300MHz Pentium 2, only with much, much swankier graphics" for a Pi3 to:

A 2007 era desktop class processor, constrained to 1GB RAM, still retaining the 's' on the "swankier" graphics (but without the "much, much"), and with weaker i/o.
I recently replaced a Acer Revo R3700 (Intel Atom, 4GB Men, W10) which was used for Web Browsing, eMail and Word /Excel with a RPi 3B running latest Jessie release.

In this situation the RPi 3B was an adequate replacement and could still use a HP ePrinter..
Adieu

ejolson
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Re: Just out of curiosity, what x86 is RPi3 equivalent.

Sat Dec 31, 2016 11:24 pm

gregeric wrote:A 2007 era desktop class processor, constrained to 1GB RAM, still retaining the 's' on the "swankier" graphics (but without the "much, much"), and with weaker i/o.
That sounds about right. Perhaps retain the "much, much" for the poetic effect but put it in front of "weaker i/o."

TheMonkeyKing
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Re: Just out of curiosity, what x86 is RPi3 equivalent.

Tue Mar 07, 2017 9:16 pm

Great! I was just looking for something like this.

I was trying to explain to a friend that I work with some people who use HP thin clients for their business purposes. But there are no applications really installed on the clients, just that each "application" is just a URL to a web-based application. So my reasoning is that you only need a network card with a GPU (video card) with a enough 'oomph!' to drive HTML5 graphics and resolutions. We aren't watching movies but there may be some graphical based education tutorials online to view.

If something like the Pi3 could be used, it would mean one-tenth the cost of owning a thin client. I will be testing just to make sure the Pi could even log on and handle the sites but it would be nice to show where the Pi3 fits in terms of web-based activities with other PCs.

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