Using RPi in a commercial project

[sdybiec]

This topic has been discussed, but some new information I learned has me concerned. Derek Molloy in his 2016 book 'Exploring Raspberry Pi' doesn't recommend RPi for commercial projects: "The RPi platform is not ideal for project developments that are likely to be commercialized. The Raspberry Pi platform largely utilizes open source software (there are some closed source blobs used with the GPU, but it is not open source hardware. ... In addition, the Broadcom bootloader license3 explicitly states that its redistribution in binary form is only permitted if it will 'only be used for the purposes of developing for, running or using a Raspberry Pi device.' It is unlikely that such a license would transfer to a product of your own design."

What's the validity of this?

Here's the link to that page in the book.

https://books.google.com/books?id=ro0gC ... se&f=false

[davidcoton]

I am not a lawyer, but I would be surprised if a Raspberry Pi ceased to be a Raspberry Pi because it is embedded in a larger system. As discussed elsewhere, the alternative "own design" clones are unlikely anyway because the SOC will not be available.

[Heater]

sdybiec,

From you book quote:

"The Raspberry Pi platform largely utilizes open source software..."

That it no way makes the Pi unsuitable for commercial products. Most open sources software licences do not make restrictions on commercial use. Not even the General Public License (GPL). There are very many commercial products that use Linux and other open source software. You just have to abide by the terms of the licenses. Same like closed source software.

"the Broadcom bootloader license3 explicitly states that its redistribution in binary form is only permitted if it will 'only be used for the purposes of developing for, running or using a Raspberry Pi device.'"

Given that your post title implies using the Pi in a commercial product, then your will be using the bootloader in a Pi device. Therefore there is no problem with that.

What's the validity of this?

If you really want to know, check the licenses on all the software components you intend to use. Like any closed source or commercial software.

I can think of many reasons for not using a Pi in a commercial product. But none of the above would be a show stopper.

[W. H. Heydt]

Data point... The Compute Module is explicitly meant to be used in commercial products. It's a "stripped down" Raspberry Pi which one uses with custom carrier boards.

[johnb_summers]

I started off thinking I could use the raspberry pi in projects with a commercial interest, then when the sept/16 update came out I realised that raspberry pi was slowly going like all the others and using the machine to gain money vie licence fees, the everything is for sale mentality that has taken the world over, so what I have done is investigate I2C chips and designed circuits that have all the function of the GPIO and greater, all controlled from a I2C interface, I have also got myself 3 different types of Arduino's and some PICs, all have I2C interfaces, then your project can be controlled by either a raspberry pi, Arduino or a PIC, I am using I2C multiplexers, 4 channel and 8 channel, the 4 channel has interrupts.

[Heater]

johnb_summers

...raspberry pi was slowly going like all the others and using the machine to gain money vie licence fees,...

Perhaps I have missed an important point here. What licence fees are your referring to?

So far I have never been asked for license fees for using the Pi in any way and was not expecting to be.

[W. H. Heydt]

johnb_summers

...raspberry pi was slowly going like all the others and using the machine to gain money vie licence fees,...

Perhaps I have missed an important point here. What licence fees are your referring to?

So far I have never been asked for license fees for using the Pi in any way and was not expecting to be.

Perhaps he's fussing over the license for the wallpaper images that are part of the PIXEL package. If so, there is certainly no requirement to use those particular images, especially if the OP thinks the license requirements are onerous. Just delete them from the image he's going to build from.

If he's bothered by the requirements for GPL, then he's going to have to find a way to run without anything licensed under that, which os going to be tough unless he abandons Linux altogether. And even then, he's going to find himself with *some* form of license unless he writes literally *everything* from the ground up, including his entire tool chain.

[aTao]

johnb_summers

...raspberry pi was slowly going like all the others and using the machine to gain money vie licence fees,...

Perhaps I have missed an important point here. What licence fees are your referring to?

So far I have never been asked for license fees for using the Pi in any way and was not expecting to be.

Isnt there an optional video codec you may purchase?

[rurwin]

johnb_summers

...raspberry pi was slowly going like all the others and using the machine to gain money vie licence fees,...

Perhaps I have missed an important point here. What licence fees are your referring to?

So far I have never been asked for license fees for using the Pi in any way and was not expecting to be.

Mathmatica and RealVNC have restrictive licenses but it is highly likely that they would not be needed for a commercial product. If they were needed than one would have to arrange a license with the company involved, which is not any part of Raspberry Pi.

[Heater]

As I thought. There is no hint of "...going like all the others and using the machine to gain money vie licence fees, the everything is for sale mentality that has taken the world over,..."

I suspect that if one were using the Pi in a commercial offering then avoiding a few pictures and preinstalled commercial apps would be the least of ones problems.

[johnb_summers]

As I thought. There is no hint of "...going like all the others and using the machine to gain money vie licence fees, the everything is for sale mentality that has taken the world over,..."

I suspect that if one were using the Pi in a commercial offering then avoiding a few pictures and preinstalled commercial apps would be the least of ones problems.

Just because your ability to see past your nose is limited does not mean others suffer the same affliction, after the sept update my gut told me to avoid the raspberry pi if thinking about commercial applications, I am sure it is fine for your trainset in the loft.

[james-at-lo-tech]

Just about every commercial router, switch, firewall, access point etc depends on open source software, namely some Linux variant.

[jamesh]

As I thought. There is no hint of "...going like all the others and using the machine to gain money vie licence fees, the everything is for sale mentality that has taken the world over,..."

I suspect that if one were using the Pi in a commercial offering then avoiding a few pictures and preinstalled commercial apps would be the least of ones problems.

Just because your ability to see past your nose is limited does not mean others suffer the same affliction, after the sept update my gut told me to avoid the raspberry pi if thinking about commercial applications, I am sure it is fine for your trainset in the loft.

You are talking nonsense. There is no limitation to using the Pi in commercial products (there are 100k's already in commercial product), there are NO licence fees except for the MP4 codec. Just because you have misunderstood something doesn't mean we suffer the same affliction of paranoia and lack of comprehension. My gut feeling, which is much better informed that yours, tells me this. But, I'm not one to tell people what to think. It's just to tell people when they have their facts wrong.

So, to the OP, it's fine to use the RPi in commercial products, just ensure you stick to the licences for any software you install - the posts above are a good guide. You'll probably want to make you own cut down distro anyway, with only the stuff in you want.

[Heater]

johnb_summers,

Just because your ability to see past your nose is limited does not mean others suffer the same affliction, after the sept update my gut told me to avoid the raspberry pi if thinking about commercial applications,

When I put my spec's on my nose I can see that there is a big void between my nose and your gut containing no information as to what the perceived problem is.

I was hoping your gut could point us at the licensing terms that might indicate the Pi Foundation is moving in the direction of "using the machine to gain money vie licence fees". Seems there are none.

I will agree that having strings attached to pictures in Raspbian is a bit silly. Whoever those images belong to should make them free for all and be happy of the free advertising of his work.

I'm also not happy about pushing commercial products in Raspbian (Mathmatica). But that is nothing to do with this debate.

[jamesh]

I will agree that having strings attached to pictures in Raspbian is a bit silly. Whoever those images belong to should make them free for all and be happy of the free advertising of his work.

No! This is like a venue asking for a band to play 'for the exposure'. People need to live, and that requires being paid for the work you do. It's bad enough interns and the like not being paid (and even paying to work somewhere!), we really don't need more people to be expecting stuff for free.

[johnb_summers]

well you can insult all you like, but I know that once the renters enter anything that it will be milked to death, sacks of lard to keep on yachts don't you know. they come in small to start, my gut says they are entering this so avoid it.

[johnb_summers]

i was very happy with the PI right up to the sept/16 update, that rang alarm bells all over, I have made a card using the nov/16 update this seems a bit better than the sept/16 but still has images and that remote desktop I don't want, is true they can be removed, but that is not the point, I was very happy with windows up to windows 10, I fear the Pi is going the same way.

[Heater]

johnb_summers,

well you can insult all you like, but...

I don't see any insulting going on here.

As long as I bite my lip and ignore your jibes about my short sightenness and train set that is. As it's Christmas I'll forgive you that one.

What I do see is people wondering what actually is the problem you have with the Pi and Raspbian. A question you seem to not want to answer.

[Heater]

johnb_summers,

i was very happy with the PI right up to the sept/16 update, that rang alarm bells all over, I have made a card using the nov/16 update this seems a bit better than the sept/16 but still has images and that remote desktop I don't want, is true they can be removed, but that is not the point, I was very happy with windows up to windows 10, I fear the Pi is going the same way.

Sorry we were cross posting.

I agree about the silly license restrictions on desktop images. And I'd rather not see any commercial software loaded by default on Raspbian.

But wait a minute. You have been happy with Windows up till Windows 10. Do you mean the same Windows supplied by the greatest rent seeking company on Earth since 1970 something?

If all those Windows were OK, Raspbian is heaven on Earth!

[johnb_summers]

johnb_summers,

i was very happy with the PI right up to the sept/16 update, that rang alarm bells all over, I have made a card using the nov/16 update this seems a bit better than the sept/16 but still has images and that remote desktop I don't want, is true they can be removed, but that is not the point, I was very happy with windows up to windows 10, I fear the Pi is going the same way.

Sorry we were cross posting.

I agree about the silly license restrictions on desktop images. And I'd rather not see any commercial software loaded by default on Raspbian.

But wait a minute. You have been happy with Windows up till Windows 10. Do you mean the same Windows supplied by the greatest rent seeking company on Earth since 1970 something?

If all those Windows were OK, Raspbian is heaven on Earth!

Windows is a tool I use to write programs and program micro controllers and such, never seen windows as something to sell on, my involvement in raspberry pi was only about selling on what I made. windows 10 does not allow most of my tools to work, many programs I wrote in c do not work unless there is a program to run 16 bit programs, well that stopped working with windows 10, could be that I have things missing or have configured it wrong, I don't know nor do I care as I have written windows of now, my programmers are connected to a windows 7 machine.

So lets recap, windows runs the tools and wont be sold on, the pi was to be sold on but is that viable now, at the moment the main advantage the pi has is that it can run a webserver, php, MySQL and such, I am looking for alternative boards but these are more costly, plus I am getting to old for this, cant fight the bonus hunting parasites any longer.

[aTao]

well you can insult all you like, but I know that once the renters enter anything that it will be milked to death, sacks of lard to keep on yachts don't you know. they come in small to start, my gut says they are entering this so avoid it.

That'll be me then...

[Heater]

Jamesh,

No! This is like a venue asking for a band to play 'for the exposure'. People need to live, and that requires being paid for the work you do. It's bad enough interns and the like not being paid (and even paying to work somewhere!), we really don't need more people to be expecting stuff for free.

I totally agree. People should be able to make a living some how. Be that actual work exchanged for money. Or rewards for intellectual effort.

I don't object to copyrights or patents as such. Although both have been greatly abused for ages now. See James Watt and the history of steam power.

However....

Raspbian is based on Debian. Some might accidentally think it is Debian built for the Pi.

Debian has a long and respected history. It is based on the ideals of Free Software. It has "social contract" that it abides by.

Given that, it rather goes against the grain, the spirit of things, to encumber Raspbian with license strings. For included images or commercial software packages etc.

Sure, offer those goodies as options in raspi-config perhaps. They have no place in a default installation.

By the way. Speaking of bands and venues. Back in the day radio stations had to pay royalties to play pop records. Still do as far as I know. I always thought this was backwards as the whole point of the stations playing that music was to get the kids to go out and buy the records. Basically the radio station was paying to advertise for the record companies!

[johnb_summers]

well you can insult all you like, but I know that once the renters enter anything that it will be milked to death, sacks of lard to keep on yachts don't you know. they come in small to start, my gut says they are entering this so avoid it.

That'll be me then...

A cabin cruiser with a big flag pole

[jamesh]

And..banned, for continual insults against forum members, and generally not taking on board what he has been TOLD.

Sorry, my Xmas spirit ran low a few of your posts back, and they didn't get any better.

(BTW, Fastnet '99, top ten placing in class, in case you were wondering about sailing credentials)

[jamesh]

Jamesh,

No! This is like a venue asking for a band to play 'for the exposure'. People need to live, and that requires being paid for the work you do. It's bad enough interns and the like not being paid (and even paying to work somewhere!), we really don't need more people to be expecting stuff for free.

I totally agree. People should be able to make a living some how. Be that actual work exchanged for money. Or rewards for intellectual effort.

I don't object to copyrights or patents as such. Although both have been greatly abused for ages now. See James Watt and the history of steam power.

However....

Raspbian is based on Debian. Some might accidentally think it is Debian built for the Pi.

Debian has a long and respected history. It is based on the ideals of Free Software. It has "social contract" that it abides by.

Given that, it rather goes against the grain, the spirit of things, to encumber Raspbian with license strings. For included images or commercial software packages etc.

Sure, offer those goodies as options in raspi-config perhaps. They have no place in a default installation.

By the way. Speaking of bands and venues. Back in the day radio stations had to pay royalties to play pop records. Still do as far as I know. I always thought this was backwards as the whole point of the stations playing that music was to get the kids to go out and buy the records. Basically the radio station was paying to advertise for the record companies!

I dunno. Raspbian is a distro specially for the Raspi (not sure of the legalise with regard to PIxel on x86), and using Raspbian on the Pi comes with no restriction as long as you use it on the Raspi. There are no licence issues AFAICT. I'll lok in to it more a week or two in to the new year.