kosso
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EMC Compliance of a Pi in a case for commercial use

Wed Dec 14, 2016 1:26 pm

Hello,

Apologies if this has been asked before, but I can't seem to get a definitive answer to what should be a simple question:

Given that the Pi3 is CE/FCC certified (and also the power supply), does putting an unmodified Pi inside a plastic case (with it only being connected to a screen via HDMI) require it to be EMC tested again for use in a commercial environment?

Again: nothing else connected to it than what is required for 'normal use'. It would just be in a case behind a screen.

Thanks.

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Re: EMC Compliance of a Pi in a case for commercial use

Wed Dec 14, 2016 1:46 pm

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kosso
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Re: EMC Compliance of a Pi in a case for commercial use

Wed Dec 14, 2016 2:38 pm

Hi.

No. That didn't actually answer the question definitively.

Also: "typical configuration" is surely: a Pi with a power supply plugged into a screen. No?
A plastic case is not going to make anything worse. Surely?

ie:" What is "typical configuration"? The 'bare' PCB on a desk?

(Obviously, if the case I wanted to put it in was some huge metallic spiky sputnik-shaped thing, I can imagine EM fields being somewhat distorted ;) )

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Re: EMC Compliance of a Pi in a case for commercial use

Wed Dec 14, 2016 2:45 pm

  1. A typical headless system is power supply, Raspberry and SDCard.
  2. A typical desktop system is power supply, Raspberry, SDCard, TV, USB mouse, USB keyboard.
  3. A typical RPF screen system is power supply, Raspberry, SDCard, RPF touch screen.
Unless the EMC stuff has an explicit description of what their typical set-up consists of, then assume option 2.
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Re: EMC Compliance of a Pi in a case for commercial use

Wed Dec 14, 2016 2:47 pm

kosso wrote:Hello,

Apologies if this has been asked before, but I can't seem to get a definitive answer to what should be a simple question:

Given that the Pi3 is CE/FCC certified (and also the power supply), does putting an unmodified Pi inside a plastic case (with it only being connected to a screen via HDMI) require it to be EMC tested again for use in a commercial environment?

Again: nothing else connected to it than what is required for 'normal use'. It would just be in a case behind a screen.

Thanks.
If you are confident it's OK, you can, I believe , self certify.

But without actually doing the testing, which is very expensive, even with just a plastic case, I wouldn't be 100% sure.
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kosso
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Re: EMC Compliance of a Pi in a case for commercial use

Wed Dec 14, 2016 4:03 pm

Thanks for the info. I've been reading around self-certification too.

Do people get around this by selling 'kits'? ie: Not supplied assembled in a case/enclosure.

Maybe it would be idea for case manufacturer/suppliers to offer some sort of additional certification/statement of conformity which basically says:

"If you put a Raspberry Pi in this case (with no additional components and an approved power supply) this will pass the required EMC tests".

That would work?

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Re: EMC Compliance of a Pi in a case for commercial use

Thu Dec 15, 2016 9:02 am

kosso wrote:Thanks for the info. I've been reading around self-certification too.

Do people get around this by selling 'kits'? ie: Not supplied assembled in a case/enclosure.

Maybe it would be idea for case manufacturer/suppliers to offer some sort of additional certification/statement of conformity which basically says:

"If you put a Raspberry Pi in this case (with no additional components and an approved power supply) this will pass the required EMC tests".

That would work?
I doubt manufactures would want to go to the considerable expense of certifying.
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kosso
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Re: EMC Compliance of a Pi in a case for commercial use

Thu Dec 15, 2016 1:44 pm

Surely if they could alleviate any legal concerns from people who'd like to build and sell a product containing a basic pre-installed Pi to consumers, it would be well worth the expense.

They would become incredibly popular.


jamesh wrote:
kosso wrote:Thanks for the info. I've been reading around self-certification too.

Do people get around this by selling 'kits'? ie: Not supplied assembled in a case/enclosure.

Maybe it would be idea for case manufacturer/suppliers to offer some sort of additional certification/statement of conformity which basically says:

"If you put a Raspberry Pi in this case (with no additional components and an approved power supply) this will pass the required EMC tests".

That would work?
I doubt manufactures would want to go to the considerable expense of certifying.

jamesh
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Re: EMC Compliance of a Pi in a case for commercial use

Thu Dec 15, 2016 2:37 pm

kosso wrote:Surely if they could alleviate any legal concerns from people who'd like to build and sell a product containing a basic pre-installed Pi to consumers, it would be well worth the expense.

They would become incredibly popular.


jamesh wrote:
kosso wrote:Thanks for the info. I've been reading around self-certification too.

Do people get around this by selling 'kits'? ie: Not supplied assembled in a case/enclosure.

Maybe it would be idea for case manufacturer/suppliers to offer some sort of additional certification/statement of conformity which basically says:

"If you put a Raspberry Pi in this case (with no additional components and an approved power supply) this will pass the required EMC tests".

That would work?
I doubt manufactures would want to go to the considerable expense of certifying.
Let's say it cost $10k to certify. Let's say your profit is $2/item. You need to sell 5k items before you break even. That would be quite a hard sell, but if you are confident in selling that many, go for it!
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kosso
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Re: EMC Compliance of a Pi in a case for commercial use

Thu Dec 15, 2016 3:18 pm

Well the project I'm researching to see if we can even legally supply a Raspberry Pi in a case would need about 1000 in the first order.

Think store chains and signage, etc.
Up-front verification of the case for those kinds of applications of a basic enclosed Pi would be highly attractive for companies who provide these things. And ultimately profitable for the case enclosure manufacturer.

A lot of indoor/outdoor big screen signage I've worked with uses Mini-ITX windows PCs behind them.
Replacing those with Raspberry Pis would be great for all sorts of reasons. :)

jamesh wrote: I doubt manufactures would want to go to the considerable expense of certifying.

Let's say it cost $10k to certify. Let's say your profit is $2/item. You need to sell 5k items before you break even. That would be quite a hard sell, but if you are confident in selling that many, go for it!

jamesh
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Re: EMC Compliance of a Pi in a case for commercial use

Fri Dec 16, 2016 5:52 pm

kosso wrote:Well the project I'm researching to see if we can even legally supply a Raspberry Pi in a case would need about 1000 in the first order.

Think store chains and signage, etc.
Up-front verification of the case for those kinds of applications of a basic enclosed Pi would be highly attractive for companies who provide these things. And ultimately profitable for the case enclosure manufacturer.

A lot of indoor/outdoor big screen signage I've worked with uses Mini-ITX windows PCs behind them.
Replacing those with Raspberry Pis would be great for all sorts of reasons. :)

jamesh wrote: I doubt manufactures would want to go to the considerable expense of certifying.

Let's say it cost $10k to certify. Let's say your profit is $2/item. You need to sell 5k items before you break even. That would be quite a hard sell, but if you are confident in selling that many, go for it!
Lots of people sell Pi's in cases as part of product, especially in the digital signage area, or for Museum kiosks etc. I suspect they self certify. When it comes down to it, if no-one is currently selling a case that has it ownconformance certificate, then I suspect they have decided its not cost effective for them to do so. If there is a gap in the market, it usually gets filled fairly quickly.
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kosso
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Re: EMC Compliance of a Pi in a case for commercial use

Fri Dec 16, 2016 6:07 pm

@jamesh Thanks for the reply.

Do you happen to have any names or links of these people who have done this? I'd love to get in touch to clarify, and who knows, possibly collaborate ;)

jamesh wrote:Lots of people sell Pi's in cases as part of product, especially in the digital signage area, or for Museum kiosks etc. I suspect they self certify. When it comes down to it, if no-one is currently selling a case that has it ownconformance certificate, then I suspect they have decided its not cost effective for them to do so. If there is a gap in the market, it usually gets filled fairly quickly.

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