No, that is too much. We have looked at sample streams.gkreidl wrote:German DVB-T will switch to T2 with 1080p50 H265 in about 6 weeks. I think that's a job which the current RPi will not be able to do.
First step in a 2 year rollout according to thisgkreidl wrote: No, everything will be in full HD and only H265. People have to buy new hardware (a receiver box for older TVs).
Large urban areas means that it will be available for 80% of all people by end of March. They are running a test in these areas for 6 months already (a few HD channels). The quality is brilliant.Paul Webster wrote:First step in a 2 year rollout according to thisgkreidl wrote: No, everything will be in full HD and only H265. People have to buy new hardware (a receiver box for older TVs).
http://www.broadbandtvnews.com/2016/06/ ... -channels/
To use Kodi you need an underlying Operating System: https://kodi.tvspock wrote:
maybe i really just should get another raspberry pi and use kodi.
You really think so, really ? Look very closely at the member list here, including the company names starting with "G" "A" "N" "I" and "M", and "B". The codec will be license free for everyone ... enormous savings to be made by those paying money.rtfmoz wrote:The driving factor for h.265 support is this will become the mainstream. Essentially everything will be encoded using this format in the coming years.
It's about H265. Generally, threads about what people want on the next Pi get shut down, because, well, its a waste of bandwidth. The RPF is not run by idiots, and making suggestions for the next Pi makes no difference to what will be on the next Pi. So, keep it to H265.k-pi wrote:As the thread title is about a Pi4 - I'd like to see at least 2GB ram & USB3 as a minimum.
https://www.arm.com/files/event/Mali_Pa ... 0_GPUs.pdfdon't see why the Pi can't incorporate hardware h265 support too, maybe someone can explain to me why Hardkernel can do it but Pi can't?
No hardware support on the Pi in the old VC4 for h.265 because it was designed before h.265.HEVC is a newly ratified standard and there is no hardware support in the current generation of Processors (Embedded / Mobile / Applications SoCs
H264 and H265 are actually very similar, so H264 quality can be just as good as H265, but just requires more bits to do it. H265 can do similar quality to H264 but as sometimes lesss than half the bitrate, as you state. Much of the difference is down to allowing arbitrary macroblock sizes.ALM865 wrote:I've used several Pi's as media centers for about three years until h265 started to become popular recently. I had to switch to Hardkernel's Odroid C2 with LibreElec 8 to deal with h265 content.
Odroid C2 is a similar price to the Pi and has working hardware h265 decoding up to 4k. I've tested up to 1080p 10bit at 30fps and the Odroid works flawlessly, can't comment on its 4k performance though.
I don't see why the Pi can't incorporate hardware h265 support too, maybe someone can explain to me why Hardkernel can do it but Pi can't?
I'm not the biggest fan of Odroids, about one in two arrive DOA (we use a lot of them at work) and they only give you 30 days to return it from purchase date. I really wish Pi would step up to the h265 plate.
I don't know how much people know about h265 here but the quality and compression on cartoon/animation content is jaw dropping, it really leaves h264 for dead in this area, h264 doesn't even compare. For normal film content it's pretty much equal to h264 in terms of quality vs filesize but is improving as h265 matures, however at higher compressions h265 retains a fair amount of detail whereas h264 gets blocky. Typically you can get half the filesize of h264 out of h265 before a film gets noticeably degraded and unwatchable.
H265 is only going to get better over the years. I still remember when h264 came out, it had plenty of issues too.
That's very old news, Since 2013 hardware H265 decoding has been a thing (Samsung Galaxy S4 debuted with it), maybe not in the Pi's price range but it's now four years later and counting. And Hardkernel isn't the only company with a low cost Hardware H265 decoder, Amlogic S805 does it too for about $50AUD, slightly cheaper than the Pi3 here in Australia.
Yes, the Pi3, but this thread is about the Pi4 is it not? If the Pi4 is still on 40nm technology we might as well be saying good bye to the Pi. Everyone is bringing out low cost credit card sized boards these days, the NanoPi's by Friendly Arm are less than the cost of the Pi with almost identical specs except at a much smaller size.No hardware support on the Pi in the old VC4 for h.265 because it was designed before h.265.
A really good programmer might be able to do h.265 in software on 64bit Aarch64 with NEON help?
I think Pi was done in 40nm and h.265 hardware needs 28nm?
Yes all true, I can't argue with any of what you said. I understand H265 HW support needs some fast and clever HW, the existing Pi3 will never be able to do reliable H265 decoding at 30fps 1080p+ and neither will the design improvements in the future based on the existing architecture. Maybe if H265 have some breakthrough on the decoding side of things that allows decoding with less grunt, but that's wishful thinking at this stage...H264 and H265 are actually very similar, so H264 quality can be just as good as H265, but just requires more bits to do it. H265 can do similar quality to H264 but as sometimes lesss than half the bitrate, as you state. Much of the difference is down to allowing arbitrary macroblock sizes.
However, H265 is different enough to require a completely new HD design. And designing an HEVC/H265 codec in HW is not easy, and therefor not cheap. It requires exceptionally fast and clever HW and also RAM, which means better memory controllers etc, especially if you want to encode. Decoding is easier, but still requires the HW change.
This is not available on the VC4. Which is why the Pi doesn't have it. To move to H265 would require a new chip. And new chips are VERY expensive to make.
You can use the ARM cores for H265 decoding - you can I believe get some pretty impressive performance using all four cores and NEON. 720p30 is easily achievable. However,you will likely need a heatsink.
I also know we won't get any answers about the next Pi release, I've seen many of these threads and they all end the same...And so is the VC4 designThat's very old news
I think you overstate the hit to the Pis future if the Pi4 is a 40nm part. However, some conversations I've had lead me to strongly suspect that the Pi4--when it eventually arrives--will be a 28nm part. I also suspect that there may be changes to the VC4, though what it will be called is anybody's guess--VC4.2? VC4.5? VC5? While I don't do media work with Pis at all (and I don't even own a TV), H.265 would seem to be a reasonable upgrade, as would a general 4K capability. Rather more useful would be USB 3 and the *potential* (even if not--initially--the actuality) of more than 1GB RAM. Personally, upgrade to USB 3, do it at 28nm (power and, therefore, heat reduction) and *all* other specifications *identical* to the Pi3, then make a CM4L (and WD can make an upgraded SATA Adapter...or something better), and I will be very, very happy.ALM865 wrote: Yes, the Pi3, but this thread is about the Pi4 is it not? If the Pi4 is still on 40nm technology we might as well be saying good bye to the Pi.
Maybe, nobody knows for sure, only time will tell.I think you overstate the hit to the Pis future if the Pi4 is a 40nm part.
Hardkernel/Odroid support: Very very good, the engineers actively work with you to fix any issues you find community: virtually non-existent which is sometimes very frustrating when you are coding and you have to wait a few days for technical questions.As for the otehr boards mentioned...how good is the software support and community? I think that has a bigger impact on SBC success than the hardware details.
I'm well past the stage of learning how to code, slapping together a working program I can pretty much do with my eyes closed. Sure Pi's work fine for tiny projects like trying to communicate with BMP180's, MPU-6050's and the like but the limitations become crippling for some larger projects. Again it depends what you are doing, at work we deal with high speed thermal cameras and the Pi just can't do it full stop... but the Odroid can simply because it has Gigabit ethernet.I don't use Pi's as media players, no time to watch, too busy using them to learn to code.
As you say H265 and USB-C would fix most of the limitations I come across too, you can get USB to whatever these days. My issues are rarely because I'm hitting the limit of the CPU or ram, I would say they are sufficient for the moment, just code smarter.Maybe just h.265 in hardware and a few USB C connectors.
Keep same footprint use 2 USB -C instead of HDMI connector.
One big difference between Odroid, ASUS etc. and Raspberry Pi is that the latter is partly UK tax payer funded through their Charity: therefore Raspberry should theoretically favor education over all other applications (specially commercial ones). As H265 support is not a must for school education nor high speed camera stuff or embedded setups, other priorities should take the lead, like keeping a Web browser up to date and ¨low¨ resolution media playback over say Germany´s latest HDTV- 4K standards.ALM865 wrote: Community only takes it so far, little things like H265 support may be a deal breaker for it's use in some projects.
Hardkernel/Odroid support: Very very good, the engineers actively work with you to fix any issues you find community: virtually non-existent which is sometimes very frustrating when you are coding and you have to wait a few days for technical questions.I'm well past the stage of learning how to code, slapping together a working program I can pretty much do with my eyes closed. Sure Pi's work fine for tiny projects like trying to communicate with BMP180's, MPU-6050's and the like but the limitations become crippling for some larger projects. Again it depends what you are doing, at work we deal with high speed thermal cameras and the Pi just can't do it full stop... but the Odroid can simply because it has Gigabit ethernet.I don't use Pi's as media players, no time to watch, too busy using them to learn to code.
Again, everyone wants the world from a SBC, yes you can't have everything... pink unicorns are tomorrows horses is what I say, give it 10 years we will be laughing at how lame H265 and USB-C was.
