RPi0 8gb SD update fails

[Pencoys]

Ge folks,
Just discovered that when using an 8gb SD card in an RPi Zero with 2016-05-27-raspbian-jessie.img.
When updating the distribution after expanding the file system.
It crashes.
I was guessing because of lack of SD Card space, so I switched to a 64gb SD card ( a new Sandisk Ultra ) and it still crashes so its not the available memory at issue.
Is there a bug in the 2016-05-27-raspbian-jessie.img or somewhere in the apt-get files or somewhere else relating to the Zero?.
When using a RPiB, RPiB+, RPi2 or RPi3 there is no problem afics.
coments?.

[DougieLawson]

The Jessie image defaults to about 3.5GB of free space until you expand the filesystem.

[B.Goode]

The Jessie image defaults to about 3.5GB of free space until you expand the filesystem.

Which is probably why the OP wrote

When updating the distribution after expanding the file system.
It crashes.

@Pencoys: how are you getting your network connection for the RPi? Could this be exposing a bug in the driver for your ethernet or wifi 'dongle' that is not seen until you do a heavy data transfer such as is needed by apt-get update?

[Pencoys]

Well, the Network connection is one of the Micro USB connectored 3x USB and 1x RJ45 hardwired network adaptor. I'm not sure how to describe it better. I have had no problems downloading via Torrent the Image zip files using it so I don't think that could be the issue.
The power supply is more than adequate as it usually powers two RPi3 24/7 - the RPi0 is destined to replace one of the RPi3. I did concider this as there is'nt a repeatable fail 'position' but seems a random point in the Apt-get script. I should add this bug is in the RPi0 1v3 I hav'nt noticied it in the original RPi0

[HawaiianPi]

@Pencoys: how are you getting your network connection for the RPi? Could this be exposing a bug in the driver for your ethernet or wifi 'dongle' that is not seen until you do a heavy data transfer such as is needed by apt-get update?

Yea, we need more info about what you are doing.
What do you have connected to your Zero?
What are the steps you are following that lead to this problem?

I just tried it on our Zero with an 8GB micro-SD card and the full Raspbian Jessie 2016-05-27 using this WiFi dongle and it worked fine.

Imaged the card with Wind32 Disk Imager and added my /boot/wpa_supplicant.conf then fired up the Zero with that card. Connected with SSH using PuTTY and I was able to use raspi-config to set my locale, disable auto-login and auto GUI and reboot, then (after reconnecting with SSH) I did a full update/upgrade with:

Code: Select all

sudo apt-get update; sudo apt-get -y upgrade; sudo apt-get dist-upgrade

and it all went fine.

Then I thought, maybe my configuration changes made a difference, so I re-imaged the card and tried again, this time just doing the upgrade/updates as soon as I connected, and again, no problems.

Not sure what's up on your end, but we need more info to figure it out.

[Pencoys]

Yea, we need more info about what you are doing.
What do you have connected to your Zero?.

Ok, Perhaps I need to be more specific for our cousins.
The RPi0 is connected to a 5.2v 7.5A linear regulated power supply via the power micro USB connector , a " 3xUSB---1xRJ45 USB extension Dongle " connected to the micro USB OTG connector, and an HDMI monitor.connected by an HDMI cable to the HDMI socket. The USB extension dongle has a CAT5 network CABLE at 100mbs ( via router/modem to ISP supplying download speed at 108k/bs maximum), a USB mouse and a USB Keyboard ( UK ) connected to it. There are no other peripherals connected.

Does that trump your query ?

[fruitoftheloom]

Yea, we need more info about what you are doing.
What do you have connected to your Zero?.

Ok, Perhaps I need to be more specific for our cousins.
The RPi0 is connected to a 5.2v 7.5A linear regulated power supply via the power micro USB connector , a " 3xUSB---1xRJ45 USB extension Dongle " connected to the micro USB OTG connector, and an HDMI monitor.connected by an HDMI cable to the HDMI socket. The USB extension dongle has a CAT5 network CABLE at 100mbs ( via router/modem to ISP supplying download speed at 108k/bs maximum), a USB mouse and a USB Keyboard ( UK ) connected to it. There are no other peripherals connected.

Does that trump your query ?

" 3xUSB---1xRJ45 USB extension Dongle " does this use an adaptor to fit the microUSB of the RPi0 ?

[HawaiianPi]

Thanks for the info.

Typically those combo hub+network adapters are not self powered (they draw power from the USB port they are connected to), so the only thing I can think of is that the combination of things you have connected might be too much for the Zero's single (micro) USB port. Can you try it with only the Ethernet connection and SSH in to run the updates?

Does anyone know how much current the Pi-Zero's micro USB port can supply?

[Pencoys]

" 3xUSB---1xRJ45 USB extension Dongle " does this use an adaptor to fit the microUSB of the RPi0 ?

No, the Dongle has a microUSB plug fitted as standard, It has been in use for a while without issues, and I have no reason to suspect it being a contributing factor.
----
Details of the Dongle here..
Micro USB to Network LAN Ethernet RJ45 Adapter with 3 Port USB 2.0 HUB Adapter
Ebay Item: 381475334140
----
I have ordered a further 4 SanDisk Ultra ( 48MB/s ) Class 10 16GB SD cards to enable me to investigate further without having to wait for 'repair' the SD every time it crashes.

[Pencoys]

Thanks for the info......
Can you try it with only the Ethernet connection and SSH in to run the updates?
Does anyone know how much current the Pi-Zero's micro USB port can supply?

I had'nt concidered that !!.
I hav'nt seen the circuit diagram of the Zero but I'm guessing that the full capability of the Supply is available at the OTG. The OTG data lines are connected directly to the BCM chip - unbuffered afik - I can see no fuse or diode between the PWR and USB sockets, and I believe the USB OTG socket can be used to power the Zero ( not tried this ), implying that there is nothing but copper between the two connectors.

[Pencoys]

I believe the USB OTG socket can be used to power the Zero.

I've just tried it, and yes, the USB OTG socket can power the ZERO. Worth knowing that....

[HawaiianPi]

I believe the USB OTG socket can be used to power the Zero.

I've just tried it, and yes, the USB OTG socket can power the ZERO. Worth knowing that....

Yes, that's how that guy did the USB>Ethernet thing with a Zero (to connect to it with just a USB cable).

Let me see if I can find the link...
http://blog.gbaman.info/?p=791

[Pencoys]

Well, the problem appears to have been solved - or at least isolated.
Using the USB "hub+network" Dongle with just the CAT5 cable connected I have been able to complete the update/upgrade over ssh.
So, the conclusion is that either the hub cannot supply adequate power for keyboard, mouse and Cat5 connection or the power to USB OTG is not as 'solid' as I thought.
The next thing I'll try is a Tee between the hub and the USB OTG and run power into the Tee and see what effect that has, and if that fails then power direct to both the Zero and the Hub and see what happens then.
Ho Hum

[HawaiianPi]

The solution could also be a simple as a different keyboard and mouse. Some of those can be pretty power hungry. My Deck Legend wired USB keyboard draws 12X more power than the wireless dongle of my Logitech K400r keyboard.

I haven't found any official info on the power output of the Pi-Zero USB port, but the USB 2.0 standard is 5V/500mA. Also, Ethernet is pretty power hungry by itself, so using that in combination with a hub leaves less power for other connected devices. The lack of on-board Ethernet is one of the things that makes the Zero much more power efficient (the Zero under full load draws less power than my Pi3 at idle). Adding power to the hub should help.

[drgeoff]

I haven't found any official info on the power output of the Pi-Zero USB port, but the USB 2.0 standard is 5V/500mA.

Other than the current handling capability of the connectors and PCB track, a Zero imposes no limit on the power output of the USB port. The 5 volt contacts of the two micro-USB connectors are connected together with no intervening components. Ditto for the 0 volt contacts.

[HawaiianPi]

I haven't found any official info on the power output of the Pi-Zero USB port, but the USB 2.0 standard is 5V/500mA.

Other than the current handling capability of the connectors and PCB track, a Zero imposes no limit on the power output of the USB port. The 5 volt contacts of the two micro-USB connectors are connected together with no intervening components. Ditto for the 0 volt contacts.

Interesting. Thanks for that.

I hav'nt seen the circuit diagram of the Zero but I'm guessing that the full capability of the Supply is available at the OTG. The OTG data lines are connected directly to the BCM chip - unbuffered afik - I can see no fuse or diode between the PWR and USB sockets, and I believe the USB OTG socket can be used to power the Zero ( not tried this ), implying that there is nothing but copper between the two connectors.

Looks like that is correct, based on what was said above.

Well, the problem appears to have been solved - or at least isolated.
Using the USB "hub+network" Dongle with just the CAT5 cable connected I have been able to complete the update/upgrade over ssh.
So, the conclusion is that either the hub cannot supply adequate power for keyboard, mouse and Cat5 connection or the power to USB OTG is not as 'solid' as I thought.
The next thing I'll try is a Tee between the hub and the USB OTG and run power into the Tee and see what effect that has, and if that fails then power direct to both the Zero and the Hub and see what happens then.
Ho Hum

Since disconnecting the USB keyboard and mouse seemed to fix the issue, it looks like the problem here is the power handling of the hub device itself. Not enough power getting through the hub's micro USB connector or the intervening cable. So I'm guessing that feeding extra power before the hub's connector probably wont help. You'll either need a less power hungry keyboard and mouse, or you'll need to power the hub in a more direct fashion.