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ds18s20
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Re: Raspberry pi zero equivalent with Ethernet

Fri Nov 27, 2015 5:14 pm

I believe the OTG "defect" can easily be solved (someone more of a USB guru correct me here) by cutting the sense trace away from ground at the board connector. Then the connector becomes regular micro-USB

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mahjongg
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Re: Raspberry pi zero equivalent with Ethernet

Sun Nov 29, 2015 4:30 pm

yes, there are wifi adapters that interface easily with the GPIO, and cost peanuts, for example the $3 ESP-01 module, normally used with Arduino's. Its a small board with a six pin header, with a configuration unlike the PI, but could easily be changed to a PIN configuration that can plug right into a zero, so don't give me talk that you need an micro_USB connector and a hub to get Ethernet, that is just not true. :P
Similarly priced systems also exist for wired Ethernet and Bluetooth, so if you need one of these, that would be possible too!

Googling for ESP-01 you will find it is already used by some users with a PI, but needs a few dupoint cables for the physical interfacing, a small board change would fix that, with ease, without affecting the price.

Image

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mahjongg
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Re: Raspberry pi zero equivalent with Ethernet

Sun Nov 29, 2015 4:39 pm

ds18s20 wrote:I believe the OTG "defect" can easily be solved (someone more of a USB guru correct me here) by cutting the sense trace away from ground at the board connector. Then the connector becomes regular micro-USB
:?: :?: :?: :?:
Which "defect" is that? I don't see any sense in cutting any trace, the trace probably doesn't even exist.
This is a made up "problem". A non-problem.
The OTG sense line, if used, is just for convenience, Otherwise switching between slave and master mode is just an software option (if the slave driver existed).

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mikronauts
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Re: Raspberry pi zero equivalent with Ethernet

Sun Nov 29, 2015 6:51 pm

I have been using ESP-01's, ESP-07's and ESP-12e's, and they are great for small WiFi IoT "thingies"

You could potentially run SLIP/PPP on them, and get a Pi0 on the net with them, however there are a few rather large limitations:

1) maximum number of open TCP connections (I seem to remember 5 for some reason, I could be wrong)

2) low bit rate over serial (I know 115kbps would work, I think it supports 460kbps, but I am not sure anything faster is feasible)

Here is a little dev setup I made for the ESP-01:

http://www.mikronauts.com/esp8266/esp82 ... periments/
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Re: Raspberry pi zero equivalent with Ethernet

Mon Nov 30, 2015 8:31 am

mikronauts wrote: You could potentially run SLIP/PPP on them, and get a Pi0 on the net with them, however there are a few rather large limitations:
That's the experiment I'm going to try with an ESP8266 this week.
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Re: Raspberry pi zero equivalent with Ethernet

Mon Nov 30, 2015 9:42 am

Personally I think that the lack of a parallel port is the biggest mistake with the Pi Zer0 design, without a centronics interface, how am I supposed to drive my daisywheels and band printers?

Oh, and it's also going to be a right royal pain to get the Zer0 onto my token ring network.

And I was hoping to reuse my 16K ZX81 Ram Pack, looks like that's a non-starter too.

All in all it looks like it's going to be a disappointing Christmas this year.

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Re: Raspberry pi zero equivalent with Ethernet

Mon Nov 30, 2015 9:52 am

Pithagoros wrote:Personally I think that the lack of a parallel port is the biggest mistake with the Pi Zer0 design, without a centronics interface, how am I supposed to drive my daisywheels and band printers?

Oh, and it's also going to be a right royal pain to get the Zer0 onto my token ring network.

And I was hoping to reuse my 16K ZX81 Ram Pack, looks like that's a non-starter too.

All in all it looks like it's going to be a disappointing Christmas this year.
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Re: Raspberry pi zero equivalent with Ethernet

Mon Nov 30, 2015 2:48 pm

No need to hate on the guy who asked a perfectly reasonable question IMHO.

Communications is an important part of any modern computer (and a huge part of computing/programming education, I would say, both as a medium for finding information *and* for concepts in the curriculum itself). Furthermore, removing things from the board has a cost, e.g., the smaller USB and HDMI ports set me back USD $15 in adapter costs (including one on clearance) at Micro Center. I say this not to complain (am truly impressed with and grateful for Pi Zero) but rather to demonstate that at this level cost cutting often becomes cost shifting. Given the importance of communications (I don't personally care what type) it would be nice to find a solution that didn't feel like an afterthought.

For some 1080p video may be unnecessary; what would it look like to design a Pi Zero v2 without video but with communications? Or better yet, is there a way to leverage HDMI as the carrier for Ethernet given its small port size?

Based on this page I'm assuming this is currently not possible:

http://raspberrypi.stackexchange.com/qu ... -over-hdmi

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Re: Raspberry pi zero equivalent with Ethernet

Mon Nov 30, 2015 5:00 pm

Pithagoros wrote: All in all it looks like it's going to be a disappointing Christmas this year.
Exactly. How am I supposed to reuse my Acorn sideways ROMs?
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Re: Raspberry pi zero equivalent with Ethernet

Mon Nov 30, 2015 5:22 pm

timrowledge wrote:
Pithagoros wrote: All in all it looks like it's going to be a disappointing Christmas this year.
Exactly. How am I supposed to reuse my Acorn sideways ROMs?
I've got a drawer full of those that I don't know what to do with.

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Re: Raspberry pi zero equivalent with Ethernet

Mon Nov 30, 2015 6:28 pm

Please post on how it went!

Theoretically, UPS and customs willing, I'll be receiving two "kits" with 0's tomorrow...
DougieLawson wrote:
mikronauts wrote: You could potentially run SLIP/PPP on them, and get a Pi0 on the net with them, however there are a few rather large limitations:
That's the experiment I'm going to try with an ESP8266 this week.
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Speedwell68
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Re: Raspberry pi zero equivalent with Ethernet

Mon Nov 30, 2015 8:24 pm

I can't believe all this bitching over the Pi Zero's lack of ethernet. If you want an ethernet version cheaply go and buy a model B or B+. You can get them second hand for a few quid.

It isn't as if the thing isn't infinitely expandable anyway.

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Re: Raspberry pi zero equivalent with Ethernet

Mon Nov 30, 2015 8:41 pm

Speedwell68 wrote:I can't believe all this bitching over the Pi Zero's lack of ethernet. If you want an ethernet version cheaply go and buy a model B or B+. You can get them second hand for a few quid.

It isn't as if the thing isn't infinitely expandable anyway.
viewtopic.php?f=63&t=127003&start=300#p853286
Retired disgracefully.....

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Re: Raspberry pi zero equivalent with Ethernet

Tue Dec 01, 2015 9:04 am

The real place for the Zero is in embedded devices, robots etc. Which can be done without ethernet. You want full time ethernet? Get a B2.
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Re: Raspberry pi zero equivalent with Ethernet

Tue Dec 01, 2015 9:09 am

jamesh wrote:The real place for the Zero is in embedded devices, robots etc. Which can be done without ethernet. You want full time ethernet? Get a B2.
...or a B+ at $20.00 ?
Retired disgracefully.....

emma1997
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Re: Raspberry pi zero equivalent with Ethernet

Tue Dec 01, 2015 11:45 am

DougieLawson wrote: That's the experiment I'm going to try with an ESP8266 this week.
Probably the key word there is"experiment". With no support at all in the standard distributions it is strictly a labor of love for top geeks with hours (or months) to spend hacking and twiddling code. No ready to go solution for the other 99.9% of users.

With HDMI and composite interfaces complaints in the display category are ridiculous and micro vs full size connectors merely an inconvenience. Lack of ethernet understandable too from real estate and cost. But with single USB that leaves no way to implement internet and a direct connected user interface. So ATM this cute little board is exiled to the world of robots and other headless niche applications. Not usable as a personal computer without jumping through hoops.

I have a large collection of ESP01/07/12 modules but gathering dust except for some Arduino projects. It would be a great boon if there existed a plug-and-play solution for using ESP with Zero. Other RPi models too. Instant WIFI without eating up the sole USB port.

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Re: Raspberry pi zero equivalent with Ethernet

Tue Dec 01, 2015 12:19 pm

In my project I need to upload something to PiZero at startup. This requires networking even if no networking is required at run time.

One solution that does not cost the shirt is to use a cheap SPI based Ethernet module (2£) and do the WiFi conversion with ZyXEL NBG2105 3-in-1 ‐WiFi (12£) or a similar device outside the RPi.
Image
This solution leaves the USB port free for kbd/mouse. You then get both wired Ethernet and WiFi. Plus most of your GPIO pins are still available for your Amazing Applications.

I am prototyping something like this for PiZero in the Hardware/Add-on forum.
ImageImage

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Re: Raspberry pi zero equivalent with Ethernet

Tue Dec 01, 2015 12:33 pm

ENC28J60 and ESP8266 modules are both excellent solutions to the Zero one USB problem. Cheap and no soldering required. But what about software? Is there any reasonable solution for mortals who lack godlike coding skills?

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Re: Raspberry pi zero equivalent with Ethernet

Tue Dec 01, 2015 12:58 pm

You don't need god-like coding skills to use one, I'm pretty sure that there is a device tree overlay for the ENC variant.
I have a number of them from a well known Chinese supply site that sounds like a character from the Arabian Nights, and used them in Arduino/AVR projects. I am going to try connecting one to one of my Zero boards and see if it works with Jessie Lite.

Now that's what I call headless.

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Re: Raspberry pi zero equivalent with Ethernet

Tue Dec 01, 2015 1:27 pm

SteveSpencer wrote:device tree overlay
LOL. OK... semi godlike. To a newcomer looking under the hood Linux is a horrific mess of secret handshakes and cryptic gang signs.

ame
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Re: Raspberry pi zero equivalent with Ethernet

Tue Dec 01, 2015 1:38 pm

emma1997 wrote:
SteveSpencer wrote:device tree overlay
LOL. OK... semi godlike. To a newcomer looking under the hood Linux is a horrific mess of secret handshakes and cryptic gang signs.
It's not secret. It's all on view for anyone who's interested to learn.

You could plug one of these in:
http://www.dx.com/p/micro-usb-to-3-port ... ite-407265

$6.50 (free shipping!) gets you 3 USB ports and an Ethernet port. Done!

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karrika
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Re: Raspberry pi zero equivalent with Ethernet

Tue Dec 01, 2015 1:57 pm

That 3 USB + Ethernet with free shipping for 6.50 is amazing. There is not much point in looking further.

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Re: Raspberry pi zero equivalent with Ethernet

Tue Dec 01, 2015 2:09 pm

emma1997 wrote:LOL. OK... semi godlike. To a newcomer looking under the hood Linux is a horrific mess of secret handshakes and cryptic gang signs.
You don't need to understand the details. Add this rune to config.txt

Code: Select all

dtoverlay=enc28j60
and you can use an enc28j60 ethernet module.

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Re: Raspberry pi zero equivalent with Ethernet

Tue Dec 01, 2015 2:10 pm

And according to forum mod Trevor Green's test that 3-port USB + ethernet will back-power the Pi if desired. See http://www.cpmspectrepi.webspace.virgin ... esChk.html

They're on ebay for about £3 delivered (I guess without power adaapter). Some with large USB-A connector, others with micro-USB ready to plug straight in to the Zero.

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Re: Raspberry pi zero equivalent with Ethernet

Tue Dec 01, 2015 2:39 pm

PiZero (£4)
3port usb + rj45 (£3)
That's pretty much a B+ for £7 !!
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