2damncommon
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A Question - Does IoT 'phone home'

Wed Oct 07, 2015 4:42 am

Windows 10 sends information to Microsoft.

Is the fact that one is connecting to Windows 10 IOT on the Raspberry Pi being sent to Microsoft every time one does so?

fruitoftheloom
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Re: A Question - Does IoT 'phone home'

Wed Oct 07, 2015 10:58 am

2damncommon wrote:Windows 10 sends information to Microsoft.

Is the fact that one is connecting to Windows 10 IOT on the Raspberry Pi being sent to Microsoft every time one does so?
The "Phone Home" only appears to apply to the Desktop versions of Windows 7 and later.. ;)
Retired disgracefully.....

2damncommon
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Re: A Question - Does IoT 'phone home'

Thu Oct 08, 2015 2:56 am

fruitoftheloom wrote:The "Phone Home" only appears to apply to the Desktop versions of Windows 7 and later.. ;)
That's actually what my question is. When you connect to the Raspberry Pi running Windows IOT with your Windows 10 Desktop, is Microsoft receiving information about it?

ame
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Location: Korea

Re: A Question - Does IoT 'phone home'

Thu Oct 08, 2015 4:27 am

2damncommon wrote:
fruitoftheloom wrote:The "Phone Home" only appears to apply to the Desktop versions of Windows 7 and later.. ;)
That's actually what my question is. When you connect to the Raspberry Pi running Windows IOT with your Windows 10 Desktop, is Microsoft receiving information about it?
Safest to assume that they are. Does it matter? What are you going to do about it?

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panik
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Re: A Question - Does IoT 'phone home'

Thu Oct 08, 2015 10:55 am

Visual Studio "phones home" to Microsoft when you log in to it with your Live account. It does that every time. Not only when you connect to Windows IoT on the Pi to deploy your application. So yes, it does. Always.

That said, Windows 10 IoT by itself probably doesn't "phone home" (not that we know of anyway, but I wouldn't be surprised if it did). It's an IoT development platform, not a specific IoT device for a specific purpose.

The reason most companies/organizations/individuals are interested in IoT in general, is because it can add an extra tool in their toolbox to be able to track their devices and the way customers/users use them. Most IoT devices are useless if they don't "phone home". That's actually the whole idea, regardless of IoT "OS". It might as well run Linux or firmware without an OS.

You're the developer of the IoT device. You tell it what "home" is, when to "phone" it, and what data to send.
Microcontroller addon boards and software for Raspberry Pi A+/B+/Pi2:
- ARMinARM: ARM Cortex-M3 (STM32)
- AVRPi: ATmega32U4 & ATmega328 ("Arduino")
http://www.onandoffables.com

2damncommon
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Re: A Question - Does IoT 'phone home'

Sat Oct 10, 2015 3:03 am

panik wrote:Visual Studio "phones home" to Microsoft when you log in to it with your Live account. It does that every time. Not only when you connect to Windows IoT on the Pi to deploy your application. So yes, it does. Always...
This is closer to why I asked. But my understanding is that Windows 10 actually sends unknown information to Microsoft. So is some of that information the fact that you are using Windows 10 IOT to develop on the Raspberry Pi? Perhaps this is good and you can be targeted with ads and emails about products you might be interested in. Perhaps friends and family could be notified of good gift choices when your birthday approaches.
panik wrote:...That said, Windows 10 IoT by itself probably doesn't "phone home" (not that we know of anyway, but I wouldn't be surprised if it did)...
...Most IoT devices are useless if they don't "phone home". That's actually the whole idea, regardless of IoT "OS". It might as well run Linux or firmware without an OS...You're the developer of the IoT device. You tell it what "home" is, when to "phone" it, and what data to send.
How a developer programs their own device is not at all what I was asking about.
IMO a developer programming a device to contact other devices needed to perform its function is not at all the same as a corporation gathering information from the computer used to develop the device.

ricl
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Re: A Question - Does IoT 'phone home'

Sat Oct 10, 2015 8:39 am

2damncommon wrote:Windows 10 sends information to Microsoft.
Windows 10 phones home to all the people you have for Cloud services, that's the way it works. Microsoft or not.
2damncommon wrote:Is the fact that one is connecting to Windows 10 IOT on the Raspberry Pi being sent to Microsoft every time one does so?
No.

I watch network traffic fairly carefully and they are no connections off site I cannot account for during the development/deploy/debug process.

Do you have any EVIDENCE for your claim or is it just wild speculation?

Mind you, given that I downloaded VS 2015, the IoT 10240 and 10531 OSs, have a MS Store developer account, etc. I am sure MS already knows I develop for the Pi. I have even registered app names at the store during development so that they know the release name of the projects (before I release them)!

Perhaps they have just turned off data snooping at my location. (or it was never there in the first place). YMMV.
ricl : F/gamma = ma : Law ii(a) : https://climatedatablog.wordpress.com/2016/01/02/an-energy-challenge-2016/ #AnEnergyChallenge2016

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panik
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Re: A Question - Does IoT 'phone home'

Sat Oct 10, 2015 10:34 am

2damncommon wrote:How a developer programs their own device is not at all what I was asking about.
IMO a developer programming a device to contact other devices needed to perform its function is not at all the same as a corporation gathering information from the computer used to develop the device.
No worries. I'm fully aware of what you asked. My answer was pure technical, not ethical. It seemed ontopic in the 'IoT' subforum (by definition, 'IoT phones home'). But the irony of your question wasn't lost on me.

If you want ethical: IoT can make the world an awesome place, and it can be the road to hell. That's up to us. Choose wisely. Your choice of development platform is the very first step. Maybe it doesn't matter that you store my personal data on Azure. Maybe it does. Time will tell.
Microcontroller addon boards and software for Raspberry Pi A+/B+/Pi2:
- ARMinARM: ARM Cortex-M3 (STM32)
- AVRPi: ATmega32U4 & ATmega328 ("Arduino")
http://www.onandoffables.com

2damncommon
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Re: A Question - Does IoT 'phone home'

Sat Oct 10, 2015 5:14 pm

ricl wrote:...Do you have any EVIDENCE for your claim or is it just wild speculation?...
Articles such as this (presented as somewhat represenative not as an ultimate authority) suggest there are a number of avenues of data transmission and as this article suggests, some seem somewhat "normal" while some seem "questionable" and in some cases information seems to be sent when that particular function is turned off.

It crossed my mind that information on a users development projects could be among the information being gathered. Such as what platform a user is developing on, perhaps how many Raspberry Pis are involved. But this is my question and not my claim.
panik wrote:No worries. I'm fully aware of what you asked. My answer was pure technical, not ethical. It seemed ontopic in the 'IoT' subforum (by definition, 'IoT phones home'). But the irony of your question wasn't lost on me...
Thanks panik.
I realize now my thread title is a bit misleading as I had meant it to apply to Windows 10, the development software (Visual Studio), and the actual IOT software, as in, "When one uses Visual Studio on Windows 10 for software development on a Raspberry Pi running Windows IOT is information or statistics sent to Microsoft particular to your IOT development? (Phone home was probably not the best choice of words.)

Perhaps a wild and crazy thing to wonder about...

ricl
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Re: A Question - Does IoT 'phone home'

Sat Oct 10, 2015 6:00 pm

Well one thing is for certain, don't tick the 'Application Insights' check box when creating a solution or, for sure, your app is going to phone home big time!

Mind you, that's exactly what you asked it to do if you did!
ricl : F/gamma = ma : Law ii(a) : https://climatedatablog.wordpress.com/2016/01/02/an-energy-challenge-2016/ #AnEnergyChallenge2016

2damncommon
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Re: A Question - Does IoT 'phone home'

Sun Oct 11, 2015 9:57 pm

ricl wrote:Well one thing is for certain, don't tick the 'Application Insights' check box when creating a solution or, for sure, your app is going to phone home big time!

Mind you, that's exactly what you asked it to do if you did!
This is a good place to start.
I installed Visual Studio 2015 Community on Windows 10 and Windows 10 IOT to an SD card for the Raspberry Pi.
I know the Pi starts up fine with Windows IOT and I have ssh'ed into it.
I am not at all familiar with using Visual Studio and have set this up just to see what Windows IOS is.
After reading your above post I opened up Visual Studio and started a new C# project. The first thing it does while initializing the new template is to automatically add Application Insights.
This is a default install.

EDIT: I see that in the "Project" tab there is "Application Insights"-> "Configure..."
So unconfigured it would still send data?
Last edited by 2damncommon on Sun Oct 11, 2015 10:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ricl
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Re: A Question - Does IoT 'phone home'

Sun Oct 11, 2015 10:01 pm

Which is why I mentioned it!

Just uncheck it and all will be fine. :-)
ricl : F/gamma = ma : Law ii(a) : https://climatedatablog.wordpress.com/2016/01/02/an-energy-challenge-2016/ #AnEnergyChallenge2016

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