Chickenkeeper
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Re: Running programs off a USB memory stick

Sat May 05, 2012 9:45 am

I'm new to the Raspberry pi, and I know that the transfer speed of an SD card you would use to boot up the Raspberry pi is about 2 mb per second, so if you wanted to put extra programs and games onto the Pi is it possible to boot and run them from a memory stick the same way you can on a normal PC? I think the usual transfer speed of a memory stick is about 12-14 mb per second, much faster than the SD card so programs and media would run much faster.

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mahjongg
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Re: Running programs off a USB memory stick

Sat May 05, 2012 10:38 am

Yes, its possible, the R-PI uses Linux, and obviously it can do stuff like that.

That said, I'm not sure if this version of Debian with LXDE comes with automount ( a piece of software that recognized the USB stick and incorporates it filing system into the rest), so maybe you have to mount the USB stick manually, which isn't hard to do by the way.

About "mounting" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M.....computing)

I did a quick google search, and found this, which may be helpful:

http://www.ab9il.net/linux/pcm.....mount.html

Chickenkeeper
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Re: Running programs off a USB memory stick

Sat May 05, 2012 11:25 am

Thanks! That's very helpful.

Joe Schmoe
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Re: Running programs off a USB memory stick

Sat May 05, 2012 12:30 pm

"automount" facilities are a pain in the neck.  Best to turn them off if by any chance they are set on by default.
And some folks need to stop being fanboys and see the forest behind the trees.

(One of the best lines I've seen on this board lately)

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mahjongg
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Re: Running programs off a USB memory stick

Sat May 05, 2012 1:21 pm

Why? I agree that auto-running code from a mountable device is ill advised, but when I connect a memory device to my computer I expect to be able to access it without jumping through too many hoops, simply because of how the unified file system of Linux technically works.

Obviously unmounting is another  issue, but I see no disadvantage to my USB stick being automatically available to me after being recognized by the system.

Most users will take a very dim view to hardware "not working as expected" like that.

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Re: Running programs off a USB memory stick

Sat May 05, 2012 1:30 pm

I suppose it all depends on what you expect (what your expectations are).

I use Linux qua Linux.  If I want Windows, I know where to find it (and how to adjust my expectations).
And some folks need to stop being fanboys and see the forest behind the trees.

(One of the best lines I've seen on this board lately)

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mahjongg
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Re: Running programs off a USB memory stick

Sat May 05, 2012 1:44 pm

Yes, Windows does "automount", (and so does OS X) and no, it has nothing to do with that as "expectations".

The expectations that I have are that technical "problems" (or rather not fitting in with the philosophical background of the OS) shouldn't dictate what I should expect from a piece of software, but what makes sense from purely the users perspective, even when they have never used any (other) OS.

The only reason that some linux people seem to be against the idea of automounting seems to be from a technical/ideological perspective, but the "problem" (because that what it is if you need to do an unnecessary operation) is easy to fix, so why not fix it.

Except obviously if there is a really compelling reason not to, but I have never been shown one. Perhaps you can tell me what the compelling reason is?

Lets see if its compelling enough!  Other OS do not seem to think its a compelling problem, (and some are actually based on Unix like code) so why should (many distro"s) of linux leave it out, not even turning it off mind you, but actually not installing the little bit of code that is needed.

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Re: Running programs off a USB memory stick

Sat May 05, 2012 2:09 pm

Blah, blah, blah.
And some folks need to stop being fanboys and see the forest behind the trees.

(One of the best lines I've seen on this board lately)

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mahjongg
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Re: Running programs off a USB memory stick

Sat May 05, 2012 9:08 pm

blah blah, is that all?

Blah blah isn't a compelling reason.

Joe Shmoe (you) said:


"automount" facilities are a pain in the neck.  Best to turn them off if by any chance they are set on by default."


That is quite a response to my simple suggestion to install an auto mounter, and you really cannot come up with why its "a pain in the neck" not to have to do it manually? Only that a user should "change his expectations"? Why should he?

I abandoned windows (for private use, I have to use it for work) long ago, sometime in 1996 or 1997, so I'm no big Windows fan(atic), I just happen to think automounting is a good idea.

If you have compelling arguments why I'm mistaken (other than, that is how it should be with Linux) then I'd love to hear them.

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MattPurland
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Re: Running programs off a USB memory stick

Sun May 06, 2012 8:52 pm

The latest version of Debian automounted a USB flash drive I inserted into my Pi when using LXDE (not sure if it would do this when at command line)

Joe Schmoe
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Re: Running programs off a USB memory stick

Sun May 06, 2012 9:08 pm

I just think it is funny that the more things change, the more they stay the same.

That the most vocal critics of Windows seem to be the same people (Yes, I'm talking about you, Mj) who want Linux to become Windows...
And some folks need to stop being fanboys and see the forest behind the trees.

(One of the best lines I've seen on this board lately)

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mahjongg
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Re: Running programs off a USB memory stick

Sun May 06, 2012 11:19 pm

Thats a really strange comment, why is having automount the same as "wanting linux to become like windows". Is it really that impossible that windows, and as a fact OS X, and most of the more user friendly versions of Linux have it completely wrong to do so?

Again, simply tell me, out of academic curiosity, what is so wrong about "automagically" incorporating a new found filing system into linux. Apart fro the fact that windows does it so it must be "wrong" somehow. Again, obviously without doing something with what you add, so without autorunning anything, as that would indeed be a security issue.

I tried the new puppy linux for Rpi live CD, (see the frontpage article about the new magpie magazine) and it too automounted a USB stick, so I have hope that in the future I do not have to explain users why, after connecting an USB stick, its content cannot be found, and they have to tell the software that "yes, I want the content to be available".

hzrnbgy
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Re: Running programs off a USB memory stick

Mon May 07, 2012 1:26 am

Because you are not considered elite in the Linux world if you have to let the OS automagically do stuff for you, at least that's how some Linux overlords think it is.

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Re: Running programs off a USB memory stick

Mon May 07, 2012 1:48 am

I'm a Linux overlord?  Wow, I am so honored!  I never knew...
And some folks need to stop being fanboys and see the forest behind the trees.

(One of the best lines I've seen on this board lately)

shirro
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Re: Running programs off a USB memory stick

Mon May 07, 2012 2:31 am

I just want to point out that automounters on Unix and Linux are nothing new and there are old grey bearded unix/linux users who would consider automounting to be perfectly acceptable.

There are times when you need to control stuff and do things manually and there are times you want to put people like that out of a job and replace them with a small shell script.

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jojopi
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Re: Running programs off a USB memory stick

Mon May 07, 2012 4:07 am

mahjongg said:

Again, simply tell me, out of academic curiosity, what is so wrong about "automagically" incorporating a new found filing system into linux. Apart fro the fact that windows does it so it must be "wrong" somehow.
For one thing, when I plug a phone or mp3 player into a PC, it is nearly always because I want to charge it, not to transfer files.  Actually mounting it would only add to my work before I could safely unplug it again.  Or reformat it, or use it as a modem, or whatever I had actually intended.

In addition, presumably you do not mean mounting it silently; you mean mounting it and launching some application to show its contents.  That is just an obnoxious interruption to work flow and I find it difficult to believe that anyone actually likes that behaviour, as opposed to simply having been led to expect it.

At most, inserting a new storage device should make an icon available so that the user can easily and positively indicate what they plan to do with it.  Until they have done that, it should not be mounted.

Evidently, however, the designers of LXDE do not agree with me.  You will be pleased to learn that the debian 2012-04-19 image has auto-mounting turned up to eleven out of the box.  It mounts every partition of the inserted device, then asks what to do with each of them, and if you press cancel it quietly leaves them all mounted with no obvious means of cleanly ejecting.

In Linux there is a perfectly good on-demand auto-mounter called autofs/automount.  It is well worth configuring it instead of the broken, on-insertion behaviour of the GUIs.

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Re: Running programs off a USB memory stick

Mon May 07, 2012 7:40 am

Thank you, Jojo.  I think you get it.
And some folks need to stop being fanboys and see the forest behind the trees.

(One of the best lines I've seen on this board lately)

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mahjongg
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Re: Running programs off a USB memory stick

Mon May 07, 2012 5:24 pm

jojopi said:


In addition, presumably you do not mean mounting it silently; you mean mounting it and launching some application to show its contents.


No, I specifically said that I only wanted it mounted, NOT that I wanted it to automatically start something from it.

I'm surprised that the software wants to mount something when there is nothing to mount, if  you connect a USB standard cable that ends only into a charging circuit, (or for example a device like a light or a fan) there cannot be any USB communication, so there should never occur a mounting attempt. I can see the problem however if the device is something like an MP3 player that uses the same connection for power and for communication with the device. Still it is a good habit to always (try to) unmount any removable medium. So I would still prefer automounting it if necessary, even in this case. But normally I think you would (should) not see this behavior if all you do is drawing current from the USB port.

However I agree that its completely acceptable to automount the moment the user first clicks on the icon of the recognized device, in fact that would be the perfect solution, even in the rare case you plug something (a memory device) in which you don't want to open.

It perfect because it does not force the user to find out how to mount the device, nor does it ask extra effort from the user to mount the device.

My argument is just that the user should not be forced to do anything extra just to start the automount procedure, (I have seen distro's where you actually needed to open a terminal, browse to the device map, and manually execute a mount command) but clicking on the icon to do whatever the user wants to do (open, browse etc) is fine, and is expected behavior for most users.

Obviously i'm not "pleased" by the behavior you describe of LXDE, but I think you already knew that. You can create a broken implementation of almost everything, and this behavior seems broken indeed.

Well, at least your reacting is a factual one, not just "blah blah", thanks for that.

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