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abishur
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Re: New RS Email - Compliance?

Mon Mar 26, 2012 8:50 pm

jamodio said:


The lack of concrete information and misinformation seems to be growing at the same pace as the excitement before Feb 29, 06:00GMT.



It's true, after all the update about the estimated delivery date mistake, the update about the manufacturing hiccup, the update about the pricing fixes, and the update about the compliance testing, count as clear and undeniable lack of concrete information over the past 18 business days since the R-pi release date.

There's hardly a lack of information, but there is a lack of acceptance of the information that is available and a lack of patience among some for new additional information to be released.

Sadly much of the misinformation is being perpetuated by the live chat individuals (such as one who swore they were only getting 500 boards, and that they were not directly manufacturing boards), but even some on our forums have unintentionally encouraged the spread of bad info, fortunately the boards have a dedicated team of admins and knowledgeable long time members to help rebut such information
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abishur
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Re: New RS Email - Compliance?

Mon Mar 26, 2012 8:51 pm

John Beetem said:


This is not intended as a serious suggestion, but what about shipping Model B's with the Ethernet jack unsoldered (since they're having so much trouble getting them in China) and with an unsoldered GPIO header?  Then it's a kit, right? 



Goodness knows I'd be all for it if I were actually getting one of the first batch
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jamodio
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Re: New RS Email - Compliance?

Mon Mar 26, 2012 8:58 pm

Abishur said:


fortunately the boards have a dedicated team of admins and knowledgeable long time members to help rebut such information


Thank you Matthew, I'll send you a Gold Star.

You just made me win a $20 bet Shinner's on me

Cheers

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abishur
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Re: New RS Email - Compliance?

Mon Mar 26, 2012 9:00 pm

jamodio said:


Abishur said:


fortunately the boards have a dedicated team of admins and knowledgeable long time members to help rebut such information


Thank you Matthew, I'll send you a Gold Star.

You just made me win a $20 bet Shinner's on me

Cheers



Awesome, I'm always glad to help out, and since I live in Texas, I might just come collect on that shinner... unless you're talking about a black eye.
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jamodio
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Re: New RS Email - Compliance?

Mon Mar 26, 2012 9:06 pm

Abishur said:


Awesome, I'm always glad to help out, and since I live in Texas, I might just come collect on that shinner... unless you're talking about a black eye.


Flames apart and when the Pi thing is is over if you get a chance to stop by San Antonio I'll have the shinners cold and show you what do I do, something I'm working on right now is related to the job you do ...

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/0 ... directlink

Svartalf
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Re: New RS Email - Compliance?

Mon Mar 26, 2012 9:09 pm

Abishur said:

There's hardly a lack of information, but there is a lack of acceptance of the information that is available and a lack of patience among some for new additional information to be released. 

Well, when their website order piece initially gives 1-2 months into the future before you place your order and then tells you on the confirmation that it's going to be end of August earliest, it's a bit hard to have patience... (Yes, this is what happened to me...) 

(For those who've been wondering where in the h*ll I'd gotten off to, my machines were mostly down, I was in the middle of a few personal business items, now mostly resolved.)

And here I'd thought I'd missed the boat on things and wouldn't have stuff ready when people get their hands on the first batch...  Oh, well... 

Svartalf
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Re: New RS Email - Compliance?

Mon Mar 26, 2012 9:12 pm

Abishur said:

Awesome, I'm always glad to help out, and since I live in Texas, I might just come collect on that shinner... unless you're talking about a black eye.
In my case, it'd be something from the Spoetzl brewery I'd be buying you...once I got back down from Colorado where the contract's at.

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Re: New RS Email - Compliance?

Mon Mar 26, 2012 9:13 pm

Abishur said:


There's hardly a lack of information, but there is a lack of acceptance of the information that is available and a lack of patience among some for new additional information to be released.


The uniform pricing update is irrelevant and the sudden decision to hold off on shipping pending compliance test (10 days after they first had a look at it) is just taking the mick.

It's the lack of precision - the use of vague language - the lack of interim updates - that is agravating. And you are wasting key presses trying to defend the almost indefensible.

From the manufacturing hiccup post of the 8th March:


Happily, it’s a very minor problem to fix (desolder the dud jack/solder on a new one), and the factory is nearly done working on replacing them on the first set of boards. This means that the first tranche of boards should still go out to customers as we were expecting.


Minor fix, factory nearly done, first set of boards.

The first two phrases are pretty unambigious. If the last one refers to anything less than 10,000, then only the Foundation is to blame for not being precise.

By all reasonable expectations, a fair chunk of boards would of been reworked and back with us (I recall air freight being mentioned at some point) by now.

Yet still there is no news on these boards, so even if some unknown body (is it the Foundation, is it RS, is it Farnell, the wording is not clear as to precisely who's doing it and I understand that doing the work should not take long), does clear the boards, are they actually available to ship?

I'm sure someone will come along and point out that we can get along without our Pi board. And they are right. We can. But the project risks losing credibility if it can't set a track record of timely accurate news in the absence of any forward planning on actual shipments.

My colleagues who I asked to support me in developing materials, software & a piece of hardware are asking if this project is really serious enough to invest time in, to which I have no credible answers at present. I just hope like hell we get something shipped soon to do some real work on and that we don't blow the bugger up and get left with months of waiting in an endless manufacturing queue.

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Re: New RS Email - Compliance?

Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:05 pm

Time for a front-page update!  The pattern here in the Forum seems to be that the whingeing gets increasingly intense the longer it's been since the last front-page announcement and when the whingeing reaches a certain threshold a new announcement faithfully appears.  Kind of like a geyser, actually.  According to my wrist-watch, it's about time for a new announcement.

A thought to keep in mind: "Impatience is a sin which punishes itself."

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abishur
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Re: New RS Email - Compliance?

Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:49 pm

nmcc said:


Abishur said:


There's hardly a lack of information, but there is a lack of acceptance of the information that is available and a lack of patience among some for new additional information to be released.


The uniform pricing update is irrelevant and the sudden decision to hold off on shipping pending compliance test (10 days after they first had a look at it) is just taking the mick.


I'm a little curious where you're getting the number for them telling us about the compliance testing 10 days after they started it (side note I had to look up the phrase "taking the mick" and was thoroughly pleased by it, I'll have to find a way to incorporate it into my personal lexicon).  Regardless, it wasn't a sudden decision on their part to hold of on shipping the board for the Compliance testing, the distributors insisted it and the RPF was being diligent to let us know why the shipment of the boards continue to be delayed.  The point of the pricing update was to show that they are providing consistent updates and in consistent dialog with the distributors.



It's the lack of precision - the use of vague language - the lack of interim updates - that is agravating. And you are wasting key presses trying to defend the almost indefensible.

From the manufacturing hiccup post of the 8th March:


Happily, it’s a very minor problem to fix (desolder the dud jack/solder on a new one), and the factory is nearly done working on replacing them on the first set of boards. This means that the first tranche of boards should still go out to customers as we were expecting.


Minor fix, factory nearly done, first set of boards.

The first two phrases are pretty unambigious. If the last one refers to anything less than 10,000, then only the Foundation is to blame for not being precise.


I don't see how they could have been more precise unless they bolded, underlined and italicized the word set and then put a big asterisk that took you to a 30 page dissertation explain how the word set refers to different quantity to the word batch and how this is common business practice to test a smaller set of boards to ensure that the problem is what you claim it to be before dedicating the man hours to replace jacks on 10K boards.



By all reasonable expectations, a fair chunk of boards would of been reworked and back with us (I recall air freight being mentioned at some point) by now.

Yet still there is no news on these boards, so even if some unknown body (is it the Foundation, is it RS, is it Farnell, the wording is not clear as to precisely who's doing it and I understand that doing the work should not take long), does clear the boards, are they actually available to ship?


Which brings us to the compliance post.  I have little doubt that the jacks have finished being replaced, but now rather than getting to ship them out, they're having to put them through compliance testing.  This post was put up just 3 days ago and you directly referenced it, how is it a mystery then what's going on with the boards?  It would seem obvious that as the boards finish compliance testing, and barring any further delay caused by factory oversight or distributors demands the RPF should *finally* be able to start shipping them.
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Re: New RS Email - Compliance?

Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:57 pm

Abishur said:


....


I believe that one of the major problems is that there is not enough popcorn to keep everybody happy and the substantial amount of extra butter not solicited you put on top, makes the popcorn inedible.

My .02

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Re: New RS Email - Compliance?

Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:59 pm

The problem was telling anyone about anything at any time.

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Re: New RS Email - Compliance?

Mon Mar 26, 2012 11:11 pm

John Beetem said:


Time for a front-page update!


Somewhere, there are 10,000 boards - wrong ethernet jack or fixed - perhaps someone could take a photo and show us ?

I'm surprised that didn't happen anyway once they rolled off the production line as it was a major milestone in the project and something to be very proud of, despite the "hiccup" discovered later.

jamodio
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Re: New RS Email - Compliance?

Mon Mar 26, 2012 11:13 pm

Grumpyoldgit said:


The problem was telling anyone about anything at any time.


Amen ...

Just a suggestion, put a new tab on the home page that says "Latest News", no comments enabled and just let Liz and Eben provide whatever information they are willing or able to provide.

If somebody asks, point them to that page and cut the troll bait.

If there is no additional information just cut it with "it has been said", "it is my understanding", "I heard he said", "I assume", "I thought", "I have little", "I have a lot", and so on.

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Re: New RS Email - Compliance?

Mon Mar 26, 2012 11:35 pm

jamodio said:


Abishur said:


....


I believe that one of the major problems is that there is not enough popcorn to keep everybody happy and the substantial amount of extra butter not solicited you put on top, makes the popcorn inedible.

My .02



Sorry that my pesky facts are make the popcorn inedible

jamodio said:


Grumpyoldgit said:


The problem was telling anyone about anything at any time.


Amen ...

Just a suggestion, put a new tab on the home page that says "Latest News", no comments enabled and just let Liz and Eben provide whatever information they are willing or able to provide.


Yes!  Cannot agree enough that comments need to be disabled or at the very least have a dedicated thread in the forums instead.  As it stands a lot of information gets lost because one group doesn't visit the other or get's duplicated ad nauseum (which if you visit both groups might create that too much butter feeling )
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Re: New RS Email - Compliance?

Mon Mar 26, 2012 11:37 pm

hippy said:


I'm surprised that didn't happen anyway once they rolled off the production line as it was a major milestone in the project and something to be very proud of, despite the "hiccup" discovered later.



huh, you know that kinda surprises me too now that you've brought it to mind
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Re: New RS Email - Compliance?

Tue Mar 27, 2012 4:02 am

Abishur said:


hippy said:


I'm surprised that didn't happen anyway once they rolled off the production line as it was a major milestone in the project and something to be very proud of, despite the "hiccup" discovered later.


huh, you know that kinda surprises me too now that you've brought it to mind



Careful! That might cause claims that the product does not exist at all, and that it, the Foundation members, and the entire forum (except, of course, for whoever claims this), are all faked.

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Re: New RS Email - Compliance?

Tue Mar 27, 2012 4:28 am

Hello!

PLEASE dont eat my head off - first time poster (but LONG time lurker)... I dont read the whole forum/front page comments as that would take all day! So apologies if this has been discussed ad nauseum.

I have ordered lots of stuff from Farnell over the years but never bothered reading the TOS to be honest.

My question is, can Farnell sell a board and tell me the delivery date is expected to be the 13th March - and then delay that board because they decided to do testing AFTER I paid for it?

Im NOT bitching, I'll prolly go back to lurking after this post and I'll be happy to get a slice of the Pi whenever its 'cooked'! Not intended as a dig or complaint, Im just wondering if Farnell can sell me something and then delay it because they want to test it - I paid for an untested board...

Ah! I dunno!

Night All!

Dave

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grumpyoldgit
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Re: New RS Email - Compliance?

Tue Mar 27, 2012 6:24 am

My understanding is that you would not have paid for it. Farnell have said that they wouldn't charge until your unit is despatched. If you are unhappy, why don't you cancel the order?

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Tass
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Re: New RS Email - Compliance?

Tue Mar 27, 2012 6:40 am

Agreed, check your bank account – you"ll probably find they haven"t taken any money. BTW, what country are you in?

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Re: New RS Email - Compliance?

Tue Mar 27, 2012 7:01 am

Yeah I don't think they've taken my money yet, just payment details.

They are clearly doing some butt covering, but in the long run it should mean that less risk to them is less risk to the product in general...which is a win for all really.

I know it delays the initial boards, yet more, but for the big picture of the foundation and it's aims, it is probably the right thing to do.
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Re: New RS Email - Compliance?

Tue Mar 27, 2012 7:54 am

Newark US made two $1.00 charges against my card last week, so, they _are_ taking money from people already, albeit not the full amount for the board. Indeed, it"s not even a majority of the exhorbitant shipping and manhandling charges for a single board, with no option for combining multiple customers" orders in one shipment to a common address. However, it"s real money, and distributors in other non-UK countries have apparently demanded full payment via wire transfers or bank drafts. Then, there"s the substantial intellectual investment we developers have made in preparing software, educational materials, documentation (e.g., the wiki), designing and fabricating prototype cases, etc., which the Foundation and admins have roundly and consistently ignored, lumping everyone together as whiners who dare mention anything other than rainbows and unicorns regarding the status of delivery of boards.

When people _have_ put money and intellectual capital on the line in support of the project"s goals (above and beyond the Foundation"s greatly-appreciated efforts), they deserve a lot better treatment than they"ve been receiving, especially when the distributors selected as partners have turned out to be even worse at communicating effectively with customers than anyone (e.g., the apparently clueless customer service phone and chat personnel who are not being provided consistent, accurate, and timely info, either).

We"re trying to patiently wait for at least some indication of the compliance test results, while wondering what the next source of delay will inevitably be.
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Re: New RS Email - Compliance?

Tue Mar 27, 2012 8:08 am

Jim Manley said:


Newark US made two $1.00 charges against my card last week, so, they _are_ taking money from people already, albeit not the full amount for the board.


Was this two seperate charges, or was was it a charge and a refund?. I thought they normally did a small charge and then refund it back as a way to verify that the card is valid.

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Re: New RS Email - Compliance?

Tue Mar 27, 2012 9:47 pm

Hi all!

Thanks for the replies.

I guess I could have worded my question better.

Again, Im NOT bitching, I dont really care about the money TBH. I cant check my account yet as its a stupid student credit card (no online facility to check balance, have to wait for the paper bill) and there are lots of other Farnell orders on there

Im from Ireland and have used Farnell for the past six or seven years. I'm sure they have charged my card for 'items to follow' before - no biggie! I never said I was unhappy about ANYTHING & I have no intention of cancelling.

I guess it was a mild grumble 'Can they agree to sell me something, give me a date and then delay it because they changed their minds about something?' In the grand scheme of things - doesn't matter!

Looking forward to the time I can come back and ask questions about the board and software!

Cheers y'all!

Dave

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Re: New RS Email - Compliance?

Tue Mar 27, 2012 10:56 pm

Reading between the lines, and realizing that the distributors are not stupid, I can make some educated guesses.

First assumption: The insiders know that when the boards are made to specifications, with components that meet the specifications, the boards are quite likely to comply all of the relevant rules and regulations. They know this because the beta boards have been used and abused, and tested in various ways.

Second assumption: The first round of production boards from the Chinese factory would fail some safety regulations, possibly have some RF issues, and generally not network very well. We know this, because the boards as originally assembled, lacked the "magnetics" that provided isolation between the network connector, and the internal components. A part of the system that should have blocked a 1500 volt fault current for some legally mandated period of time, instead provided a direct connection to the unprotected guts of the board. Its hard to predict how a piece of silicon will react to high voltage fault currents. Under some conditions, some circuits have been known to fail so as to produce a low impedance state, which is to say, shorted out. If this happened, then there would be a DC path from the network cable, to some or all of the exposed connectors, and board traces.

While the distributors probably still have abundant faith in the Raspberry Pi Foundation's ability to design safe hardware, they may have less faith in the Chinese manufacturer's ability to correctly build safe hardware. Thus (so it appears) they decided that they wanted independent verification, that what was built, lives up to the specs as it was designed.

I suspect that if the manufacturer had accidentally substituted LEDs of the wrong colors, rather than accidentally leaving out some critical safety components, the distributors, wouldn't have required all of the extra tests.

The above is pure speculation.

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