tpc1095
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Oracle license fees for Java on Raspberry Pi are cheap

Sat Jul 27, 2013 1:04 pm

I have a PC shareware program I'd like to convert to use Java and then sell for Raspberry Pi computers. This is outside of the OTN license which says you can do use Java for free for "developing, testing, prototyping and demonstrating your application." I contacted Oracle through their web page to find out what Java on a Raspberry PI would actually cost and how I would pay them. The answer I got was this:

60 cents (US) per Pi, payable by check quarterly, either in advance of sales (by my estimate) or after the fact, with no minimum number.

Not a problem!

After I spoke with the very pleasant Oracle representative on the phone I was left with the clear sense that Oracle wants everyone to use Java and if somebody manages to sell a million units they want to be included in that success.

Just so folks don't get confused by this, Java for "developing, testing, prototyping and demonstrating your application" is free.

I'm quite pleased with all of this and I am going ahead with my commercial Java version.

jamesh
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Re: Oracle license fees for Java on Raspberry Pi are cheap

Sat Jul 27, 2013 3:39 pm

There is of course OpenJDK which I believe would be completely free. It may not be as fast as the Oracle version of course, but it should work.
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jamesh
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Re: Oracle license fees for Java on Raspberry Pi are cheap

Sat Jul 27, 2013 3:52 pm

Or, since you appear to be rewriting the app anyway, you might consider Python, which is also multiplatform and definitely completely free. It may be slower than Oracle Java, but we are expecting some decent speed improvements for Python quite soon with PyPi.
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plugwash
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Re: Oracle license fees for Java on Raspberry Pi are cheap

Sat Jul 27, 2013 11:56 pm

I'd check the details carefully, in particular last I check the only hardfloat JDKs they had released were "early access". Can you even buy commerical licensing for an "early access" release? or would you be forced to use a softfloat distro?

JeyTruss
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Re: Oracle license fees for Java on Raspberry Pi are cheap

Tue Jul 30, 2013 12:13 pm

Today, some weeks after having the JDK 8 downloaded, I got an email from an Oracle representative saying that she "would be happy to provide me with more information about the software licenses".

I guess that they catch my download because I used my professional Oracle account (Aatualy, I don't have a private one)

Did someone else already got such an email from Oracle?

jamesh
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Re: Oracle license fees for Java on Raspberry Pi are cheap

Tue Jul 30, 2013 1:11 pm

JeyTruss wrote:Today, some weeks after having the JDK 8 downloaded, I got an email from an Oracle representative saying that she "would be happy to provide me with more information about the software licenses".

I guess that they catch my download because I used my professional Oracle account (Aatualy, I don't have a private one)

Did someone else already got such an email from Oracle?
Hmm, sounds like Oracle are going to start enforcing all this stuff. I'd go with OpenJDK unless you have a really good reason to stick with Oracle. I'm not a fan of their business practices.
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JeyTruss
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Re: Oracle license fees for Java on Raspberry Pi are cheap

Wed Jul 31, 2013 10:47 am

Just for info : I replied to the Oracle Representative that I'm not using the JDK for commercial purpose (at least on the RaspberryPi).
She confirmed that in this case, there is no license fee.

henrik
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Re: Oracle license fees for Java on Raspberry Pi are cheap

Wed Aug 07, 2013 10:18 pm

JeyTruss wrote:Just for info : I replied to the Oracle Representative that I'm not using the JDK for commercial purpose (at least on the RaspberryPi).
She confirmed that in this case, there is no license fee.
Right. As I have announced on my blog (blogs.oracle.com/henrik), we license Oracle's Java binary for Linux/ARM under the standard Oracle Binary Code License. This means that it is free for development, evaluation and for production usage on a general-purpose computer. So if you build a PC out of the RPi you owe us nothing, but if you build (say) a game console or an industrial control system the license is (Aug 2013) 60 cents per unit. The same is true for our Java on Intel, SPARC and any other hardware.

As you might expect, we're not particularly interested in selling to the RPi community. Our general policy is that we never charge for development usage, and that applies to pretty much all Oracle products. So if you are a hobbyist, a developer or an educational institution you don't have to worry about this (but you will want to read the license text anyway). If you want to build and sell a product based on RPi and Oracle Java, you may owe us the quoted 60 cents: give us a call. Or use OpenJDK.

Cheers,

Henrik Ståhl
VP Product Management, Java
Oracle

jamesh
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Re: Oracle license fees for Java on Raspberry Pi are cheap

Thu Aug 08, 2013 9:10 am

henrik wrote:
JeyTruss wrote:Just for info : I replied to the Oracle Representative that I'm not using the JDK for commercial purpose (at least on the RaspberryPi).
She confirmed that in this case, there is no license fee.
Right. As I have announced on my blog (blogs.oracle.com/henrik), we license Oracle's Java binary for Linux/ARM under the standard Oracle Binary Code License. This means that it is free for development, evaluation and for production usage on a general-purpose computer. So if you build a PC out of the RPi you owe us nothing, but if you build (say) a game console or an industrial control system the license is (Aug 2013) 60 cents per unit. The same is true for our Java on Intel, SPARC and any other hardware.

As you might expect, we're not particularly interested in selling to the RPi community. Our general policy is that we never charge for development usage, and that applies to pretty much all Oracle products. So if you are a hobbyist, a developer or an educational institution you don't have to worry about this (but you will want to read the license text anyway). If you want to build and sell a product based on RPi and Oracle Java, you may owe us the quoted 60 cents: give us a call. Or use OpenJDK.

Cheers,

Henrik Ståhl
VP Product Management, Java
Oracle
Thanks for the update Henrik.
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markokrajnc
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Re: Oracle license fees for Java on Raspberry Pi are cheap

Thu Dec 26, 2013 7:57 am

Hello!

I need clarification of the following sentence:
60 cents (US) per Pi, payable by check quarterly
Does this mean I need to pay 0.60 USD per Pi every quarter (every 3 months)? Or does it mean something else?

Thank you for your clarification!

Sincerely,
Marko Krajnc

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Hove
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Re: Oracle license fees for Java on Raspberry Pi are cheap

Thu Dec 26, 2013 9:11 am

You pay once a quarter for the RPi you sold during that quarter using the Java. So you pay 60c once per RPi sold.
www.pistuffing.co.uk - Raspberry Pi and other stuffing!

markokrajnc
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Re: Oracle license fees for Java on Raspberry Pi are cheap

Tue Dec 31, 2013 12:35 pm

Hove wrote:You pay once a quarter for the RPi you sold during that quarter using the Java. So you pay 60c once per RPi sold.
Thank you for clarification!

henrik
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Re: Oracle license fees for Java on Raspberry Pi are cheap

Wed Jan 29, 2014 5:31 am

To clarify the clarification: The quoted 60 cents per RPi unit is for a perpetual license. You can also choose to sign up to a support contract which is around 20% of that (approx 12 cents per unit per year) and gives access to unlimited updates (Java 8, Java 9, Java 4711...) and 24/7 support. As you might imagine, there is an expectation of a minimum purchase of 10k units (or so - I just picked a random number) or we would lose money the first time you called us and we answered with "Hello?" :-D

Henrik Stahl, Oracle Java team

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chrisryall
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Re: Oracle license fees for Java on Raspberry Pi are cheap

Wed Jan 29, 2014 6:17 am

Be wary of Java updates on a distribution once something is working. At my hospital IT had a history of deploying these willy-nilly, tripping over or bugging the Xray admin system in the process. In the end we had to protect our kit from such modernisms

Fidelius
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Re: Oracle license fees for Java on Raspberry Pi are cheap

Wed Jan 29, 2014 9:04 am

henrik wrote:To clarify the clarification: The quoted 60 cents per RPi unit is for a perpetual license. You can also choose to sign up to a support contract which is around 20% of that (approx 12 cents per unit per year) and gives access to unlimited updates (Java 8, Java 9, Java 4711...) and 24/7 support. As you might imagine, there is an expectation of a minimum purchase of 10k units (or so - I just picked a random number) or we would lose money the first time you called us and we answered with "Hello?" :-D
I'm a bit confused about the sentence "licence fee per sold RPi unit", i.e. hardware units if I understand correctly, when however the original poster Tpc1095 talked about his Java application he wants to sell or sells already.

So please let me ask some more questions to clarify the clarification of the clarification:

1) If a software developer sells his Java application via the Pi-Store or whatever place (and so assumes that the typical Pi user will use the Pi's pre-installed Oracle JDK 1.7 to run this application), does the developer have to pay licence fees per sold application to Oracle?

2) Does the Pi foundation have to pay licences to Oracle for their (foundation) sold Pi's because the Raspbian OS comes with a pre-installed Oracle Java JDK 1.7 ?

Thank you.

PiGraham
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Re: Oracle license fees for Java on Raspberry Pi are cheap

Wed Jan 29, 2014 9:18 am

Fidelius wrote:I'm a bit confused about the sentence "licence fee per sold RPi unit", i.e. hardware units if I understand correctly, when however the original poster Tpc1095 talked about his Java application he wants to sell or sells already.

So please let me ask some more questions to clarify the clarification of the clarification:

1) If a software developer sells his Java application via the Pi-Store or whatever place (and so assumes that the typical Pi user will use the Pi's pre-installed Oracle JDK 1.7 to run this application), does the developer have to pay licence fees per sold application to Oracle?

2) Does the Pi foundation have to pay licences to Oracle for their (foundation) sold Pi's because the Raspbian OS comes with a pre-installed Oracle Java JDK 1.7 ?

Thank you.
Henrik wrote: we license Oracle's Java binary for Linux/ARM under the standard Oracle Binary Code License. This means that it is free for development, evaluation and for production usage on a general-purpose computer. So if you build a PC out of the RPi you owe us nothing, but if you build (say) a game console or an industrial control system the license is (Aug 2013) 60 cents per unit.
That seems clear enough. Only if you make a black-box product running Oracle's Java binary do you owe a licence fee, per unit sold.
If a user chooses which applications to run on a Pi that is a general purpose computer and no fee is due. Raspberry Pi Foundation sells the Pi as a general purpose computer, so they don't have to pay a fee.
The software developer has no fee to pay.
If you put a Pi in a box and sell it as a dedicated heating controller (or any fixed purpose system), using Oracle's Java binary , then you should pay a licence fee per unit sold.
That's how I read it.

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Re: Oracle license fees for Java on Raspberry Pi are cheap

Wed Jan 29, 2014 10:02 am

Thank you PiGraham for your explanation. That's how I understand it, too (albeit what I understand here is not representative since I'm no native English speaker).

However, then something is very confusing here, because of what the thread starter wrote in his first article:
Tpc1095 wrote:I have a PC shareware program I'd like to convert to use Java and then sell for Raspberry Pi computers. This is outside of the OTN license ...
So if you, PiGraham, understand Henrik correctly, then why whould Tpc1095 have to pay any licence fee to Oracle, for wanting to sell his Java application for the Pi (or other computers) ?

Maybe Henrik can clarify (once more)? Thanks.

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Re: Oracle license fees for Java on Raspberry Pi are cheap

Wed Jan 29, 2014 1:26 pm

Fidelius wrote:However, then something is very confusing here, because of what the thread starter wrote in his first article:
Tpc1095 wrote:I have a PC shareware program I'd like to convert to use Java and then sell for Raspberry Pi computers. This is outside of the OTN license ...
Yes, the OP's report of Oracle's position on licensing does seem to conflict with Henrik's version.

Oracle website wrote:Is Java still free?
The current version of Java - Java SE 7 - is free and available for redistribution for general purpose computing. Java SE continues to be available under the Oracle Binary Code License (BCL) free of charge. JRE use for embedded devices and other computing environments may require a license fee from Oracle. Read more about embedded use of Java SE or contact your local Oracle sales representative to obtain a license.
That seems to match what Henrik wrote.

henrik
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Re: Oracle license fees for Java on Raspberry Pi are cheap

Wed Jan 29, 2014 10:17 pm

Fidelius wrote:Thank you PiGraham for your explanation. That's how I understand it, too (albeit what I understand here is not representative since I'm no native English speaker).

However, then something is very confusing here, because of what the thread starter wrote in his first article:
Tpc1095 wrote:I have a PC shareware program I'd like to convert to use Java and then sell for Raspberry Pi computers. This is outside of the OTN license ...
So if you, PiGraham, understand Henrik correctly, then why whould Tpc1095 have to pay any licence fee to Oracle, for wanting to sell his Java application for the Pi (or other computers) ?

Maybe Henrik can clarify (once more)? Thanks.
It sound alike PiGrahman misunderstood the licensing terms and that the Oracle sales person he talked to clarified it (the original post in this thread refers to "units" which should be interpreted as "units of hardware" and not "number of applications shipped").

If you build and sell a Java application intended for use on general purpose computers, you owe Oracle nothing. You can even redistribute our JDK without owing us anything in many cases. Only when you use Oracle Java (not OpenJDK obviously) on dedicated hardware do we collect a license fee. We typically collect this from device manufacturers. If you as an application developer want to REDISTRIBUTE the Oracle JDK and expect your customers to install it on dedicated hardware then you have two choices: ask your customer to get a commercial license from us, or you can get it from us and just pass it along to your customer as part of your application (essentially hiding the cost in the cost of your application).

It's really not that difficult. The license is reasonably self-explanatory - though there is some complexity in corner cases.

If you are a developer playing around with Java, don't worry about it. If you are building a commercial product (in particular a hardware product) that bundles/includes Oracle Java, contact Oracle sales.

Cheers,

Henrik

henrik
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Re: Oracle license fees for Java on Raspberry Pi are cheap

Wed Jan 29, 2014 10:27 pm

1) If a software developer sells his Java application via the Pi-Store or whatever place (and so assumes that the typical Pi user will use the Pi's pre-installed Oracle JDK 1.7 to run this application), does the developer have to pay licence fees per sold application to Oracle?
No. The RPi owner could hypothetically owe us a license fee if your application makes his RPi into a single-purpose appliance and he uses it as such.
Does the Pi foundation have to pay licences to Oracle for their (foundation) sold Pi's because the Raspbian OS comes with a pre-installed Oracle Java JDK 1.7 ?
No. We have a redistribution license in place with them, but there is no money involved nor any expectation of services rendered back to Oracle. This is part of our education and developer community program, and our secret grand master plan is to get more RPi users to try out Java, and more Java developers to buy RPi:s, so that Java continues to thrive. Hush, don't tell anyone or they might copy our concept! :-)

Henrik

Fidelius
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Re: Oracle license fees for Java on Raspberry Pi are cheap

Thu Jan 30, 2014 7:57 am

Thank you, Henrik, for the clarification (of the clarification). Now I understand it.

Just one minor name correction:
henrik wrote:
Fidelius wrote:Thank you PiGraham for your explanation. That's how I understand it, too (albeit what I understand here is not representative since I'm no native English speaker).

However, then something is very confusing here, because of what the thread starter wrote in his first article:
Tpc1095 wrote:I have a PC shareware program I'd like to convert to use Java and then sell for Raspberry Pi computers. This is outside of the OTN license ...
So if you, PiGraham, understand Henrik correctly, then why whould Tpc1095 have to pay any licence fee to Oracle, for wanting to sell his Java application for the Pi (or other computers) ?

Maybe Henrik can clarify (once more)? Thanks.
It sound alike PiGrahman misunderstood the licensing terms and that the Oracle sales person he talked to clarified it (the original post in this thread refers to "units" which should be interpreted as "units of hardware" and not "number of applications shipped").
I think it should read: "It sound alike PiGrahman Tpc1095 misunderstood the licensing terms and that the Oracle sales person he talked to clarified it..."
Because the OP named Tpc1095 talked to the Oracle sales person.

BobKruse
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Re: Oracle license fees for Java on Raspberry Pi are cheap

Fri Mar 25, 2016 12:43 pm

Hello,

I apologize for extending a 2 year old thread, but it's missing the corner case that applies to my project. With any luck Henrik, or some other Oracle expert is still monitoring the thread.

We design, manufacture and sell embedded industrial controllers, soon to be based on the Pi, and probably running Rasbian. Our application is written in C/C++ and does not use Java in any way. Raspbian comes with Java installed. Do we have to remove Java from our runtime image to avoid the nuisance of paying Oracle about $20/quarter? Or is it ok to leave an unused binary of Java on the flash disk of our commercial embedded system?

Thanks,

Bob

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DougieLawson
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Re: Oracle license fees for Java on Raspberry Pi are cheap

Fri Mar 25, 2016 12:56 pm

If you remove Java (or use Jessie Lite so it's never been installed) you should be good to go without any money being demanded from Oracle.
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paddyg
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Re: Oracle license fees for Java on Raspberry Pi are cheap

Tue Mar 29, 2016 9:07 am

Slightly off topic but topical...

Is it time for the Raspberry Pi Foundation to officially switch to OpenJDK in Raspian? Not that I have much sympathy for Google, but Oracle's attitude here seems to fly in the face of everything the rest of the world has realised about the benefits of openness and cooperation over secrecy and software patents.
also https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en-GB&fromgroups=#!forum/pi3d

hippy
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Re: Oracle license fees for Java on Raspberry Pi are cheap

Tue Mar 29, 2016 12:32 pm

I suspect a "switch to OpenJDK" isn't as simple as it sounds given Oracle's partnership with the Foundation.

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