lingon
Posts: 122
Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2011 7:31 am

Re: Wishes for 2nd gen Raspberry Pi

Fri Aug 26, 2011 9:28 am

The current Raspberry Pi looks very promising and nice. I do understand that to meet the target price almost all available features are coming from the SoC. Still I would like to come with a few wishes that would only be relevant for a 2nd generation Raspberry Pi.

More RAM, 512 or 1024 MB would be great and this might happen once the needed PoP is available.

An integrated microphone input would be very nice, since that is what many children would like to play with. This would eliminate the need for an USB-hub, since the two available ports on the 246 MB model could be used for a keyboard and mouse.

USB2 is great for many things, but it limits the performance of storage to 25-30 MB/s.
Having a combined USB2 eSATAp connector would give the possibility to have good storage I/O performance. Another idea would be to have the new SATA µSSD interface directly embedded on the Raspberry Pi card. This would increase the cost but maybe it could be done for a future more expensive model?
http://www.sata-io.org/documen.....-FINAL.pdf

My first computer was also using composite video with a rather bad picture quality, so I would second the wish to use S-video instead of composite video for the analog video output expressed elsewhere in this forum. This should be only a small change to make in the SoC for future versions.

User avatar
RobinJ
Posts: 68
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2011 4:21 pm
Location: Belgium
Contact: Website

Re: Wishes for 2nd gen Raspberry Pi

Fri Aug 26, 2011 10:00 am

... All you guys care about is having a super fast computer for the least possible price, don't you? -.-
The Raspberry Pi is meant for people who want to use it to learn how to program. Not to play games and stuff ;) And for programming, 256MB of RAM is plenty if you use a decent programming language ;)
Not trying to be mean or something, but that's how it is, deal with it.
Rule #1: If a human tries to argue with a logical device like a computer, the device always wins.
Rule #2: A big bucket of water, window, or hammer can nullify Rule #1.


User avatar
Gert van Loo
Posts: 2486
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 7:27 am
Contact: Website

Re: Wishes for 2nd gen Raspberry Pi

Fri Aug 26, 2011 1:34 pm

Well... if we are talking wishes...
I want to take the GPU (As it is top of the range and good enough for a few years to come), replace the ARM11 with... lets says a Cortex-A9 running at 1GHz. Throw in a big instruction and data cache and produce the whole thing on the next smaller geometry of the ASIC process.
Somehow I don't think Broadcom will give me a design team and a few million to do that.
(On the other hand: If we sell a few million of the current version they might do it...)

User avatar
liz
Raspberry Pi Foundation Employee & Forum Moderator
Raspberry Pi Foundation Employee & Forum Moderator
Posts: 5202
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 7:22 pm
Contact: Website

Re: Wishes for 2nd gen Raspberry Pi

Fri Aug 26, 2011 1:56 pm

And I want a pony.
Director of Communications, Raspberry Pi

User avatar
ukscone
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Posts: 4181
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2011 2:51 pm
Contact: Website

Re: Wishes for 2nd gen Raspberry Pi

Fri Aug 26, 2011 2:01 pm

Quote from liz on August 26, 2011, 14:56
And I want a pony.

under hollandaise or béarnaise. :D

(ok i'll go sit in the naughty corner now for being a sick puppy)

Svartalf
Posts: 596
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2011 6:50 pm

Re: Wishes for 2nd gen Raspberry Pi

Fri Aug 26, 2011 2:03 pm

Quote from liz on August 26, 2011, 14:56
And I want a pony.

Can't help you there, Liz...but if you're interested in a Champion caliber Western style Arabian or Half-Arabian, I can hook you up for a decent price so long as you additionally pay transport for the colt or filly... ;)

Svartalf
Posts: 596
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2011 6:50 pm

Re: Wishes for 2nd gen Raspberry Pi

Fri Aug 26, 2011 2:04 pm

Quote from ukscone on August 26, 2011, 15:01
under hollandaise or béarnaise. :D


I just knew the Wrong (something kinda like the Force) was strong with you... ;)

User avatar
abishur
Posts: 4477
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 4:10 am
Location: USA
Contact: Website

Re: Wishes for 2nd gen Raspberry Pi

Fri Aug 26, 2011 2:42 pm

As long as we're talking about wishes, I could go for a Kindle. ;)

We're not trying to pick on you lingon, these very points have been brought up several times over in the "what have we missed" thread. We all would love to have these be cutting edge and beefy, but as was stated above, these are to encourage programming and computer competency not compete with the cutting edge computers. I know 256 MB of RAM can seem restrictive, but you'd be amazed at what Linux can do on little a little RAM. I see RAM limitation as a good thing as it will encourage aggressive coding practices rather than the current "it can handle it" mindset of programmers where the simplest program takes 4 GB of disk space and half a Gig of RAM just to sit there. Welcome to the forum! Don't forget to browse around as there are lots of interesting topics floating around!
Dear forum: Play nice ;-)

IRBaboon
Posts: 12
Joined: Sat Aug 06, 2011 1:11 pm

Re: Wishes for 2nd gen Raspberry Pi

Fri Aug 26, 2011 3:16 pm

Quote from Gert van Loo on August 26, 2011, 14:34
Well... if we are talking wishes...
I want to take the GPU (As it is top of the range and good enough for a few years to come), replace the ARM11 with... lets says a Cortex-A9 running at 1GHz. Throw in a big instruction and data cache and produce the whole thing on the next smaller geometry of the ASIC process.
Somehow I don't think Broadcom will give me a design team and a few million to do that.
(On the other hand: If we sell a few million of the current version they might do it...)

There you go!

Broadcom
BCM11311 - Persona™ ICE Application Processor
Persona™ ICE Application Processor

The BCM11311 is the flagship in the Persona® ICE (Information Connectivity Entertainment) applications processor family for high performance multimedia products. Persona ICE enables industry-leading 3D graphics performance and full-featured multimedia (including 1080p video encode and decode) with a superior audio experience, all while maintaining low power consumption.

Designed in a low power 40 nanometer (40nm) CMOS silicon process, the BCM11311 consists of a Dual ARM Cortex A9 at 1 GHz processor integrated with Broadcom's industry-leading VideoCore® IV graphics and multimedia subsystem and a rich set of peripheral interfaces. The BCM11311, along with Broadcom MediaxChange™ software, result in a low-power SoCs and software that cater to a variety of markets and applications in the Enterprise and Consumer segments, including high definition IP Video phones and Multimedia Tablets.

Features
Applications

Dual ARM Cortex A9 at 1 GHz
Integrated VideoCore® IV embedded processor
1080p 30 fps video encode and decode
3D Graphics: OpenGL® ES 1.1/2.0 support
TeakLite-III® DSP at 400 MHz
Hardware security
Audio codecs
Low-power 40 nm process

Did i miss something? :?

User avatar
ukscone
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Posts: 4181
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2011 2:51 pm
Contact: Website

Re: Wishes for 2nd gen Raspberry Pi

Fri Aug 26, 2011 3:31 pm

Quote from Svartalf on August 26, 2011, 15:04
Quote from ukscone on August 26, 2011, 15:01
under hollandaise or béarnaise. :D


I just knew the Wrong (something kinda like the Force) was strong with you... ;)

i don't know whether you can still get it any more but when i was a nipper in england (in the 70s at primary/junior school) there was a deli meat (cold cut) called hazlet that we used to tease anyone who had it in a sandwich was horse meat :)

aren't kids mean? :)

User avatar
Jongoleur
Posts: 1179
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2011 12:47 pm
Location: O'erlooking the sea, and all those effin windfarms...

Re: Wishes for 2nd gen Raspberry Pi

Fri Aug 26, 2011 3:50 pm

@ ukscone:

Haslet?

The stuff is still available (I saw it in my local Morrisons the other day), its a cheap pork luncheon meat. Wikipedia says "Haslet, also spelt 'Acelet', is a pork meatloaf with herbs originally from Lincolnshire, England. The name is derived from the Old French for entrails", which I think can be classed as "too much information"...
I'm just a bouncer, splatterers do it with more force.....

User avatar
ukscone
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Posts: 4181
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2011 2:51 pm
Contact: Website

Re: Wishes for 2nd gen Raspberry Pi

Fri Aug 26, 2011 3:53 pm

Quote from Jongoleur on August 26, 2011, 16:50
@ ukscone:

Haslet?

The stuff is still available (I saw it in my local Morrisons the other day), its a cheap pork luncheon meat. Wikipedia says "Haslet, also spelt 'Acelet', is a pork meatloaf with herbs originally from Lincolnshire, England. The name is derived from the Old French for entrails", which I think can be classed as "too much information"...


yeeah that's the stuff -- never could spell.

it looks like a grey meaty stuffing-y stuff -- although it is ok with cole slaw on a sandwich but then again everything is good with cole slaw

obarthelemy
Posts: 1399
Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2011 10:53 pm

Re: Wishes for 2nd gen Raspberry Pi

Fri Aug 26, 2011 4:48 pm

I've eaten horse once. At least one butcher per French town will sell horse meat ("boucherie chevaline"). It tastes OK, maybe a bit stronger than beef. I never ate it again 'coz I used to ride, and I love the (live ^^) animals. I'm guessig most French people never eat that.
Plus it's much more fun to eat steak tartare, especially in front of English/US visitors ^^
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S.....ak_tartare

David Calvo
Posts: 14
Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2011 12:40 am
Contact: Website

Re: Wishes for 2nd gen Raspberry Pi

Fri Aug 26, 2011 4:48 pm

Quote from liz on August 26, 2011, 14:56
And I want a pony.
but 25$ cost!!!

Svartalf
Posts: 596
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2011 6:50 pm

Re: Wishes for 2nd gen Raspberry Pi

Fri Aug 26, 2011 4:53 pm

Quote from David Calvo on August 26, 2011, 17:48
Quote from liz on August 26, 2011, 14:56
And I want a pony.
but 25$ cost!!!

<*snicker*> Good luck on THAT particular wish... ;)

Svartalf
Posts: 596
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2011 6:50 pm

Re: Wishes for 2nd gen Raspberry Pi

Fri Aug 26, 2011 4:55 pm

Quote from IRBaboon on August 26, 2011, 16:16
Did i miss something? :?


Nope. Only problem is that if you used this part, you're talking a BeagleBoard/PandaBoard price right now. :D

stuporhero
Posts: 125
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2011 2:02 pm

Re: Wishes for 2nd gen Raspberry Pi

Fri Aug 26, 2011 5:37 pm

Quote from abishur on August 26, 2011, 15:42
As long as we're talking about wishes, I could go for a Kindle. ;)

We're not trying to pick on you lingon, these very points have been brought up several times over in the "what have we missed" thread. We all would love to have these be cutting edge and beefy, but as was stated above, these are to encourage programming and computer competency not compete with the cutting edge computers. I know 256 MB of RAM can seem restrictive, but you'd be amazed at what Linux can do on little a little RAM. I see RAM limitation as a good thing as it will encourage aggressive coding practices rather than the current "it can handle it" mindset of programmers where the simplest program takes 4 GB of disk space and half a Gig of RAM just to sit there. Welcome to the forum! Don't forget to browse around as there are lots of interesting topics floating around!

Agreed. The amazing games that appeared on the Amiga... That had 512KiB (then 1MiB, then 2MiB) and it could do amazing stuff.

It's down to the programmer to be efficient. Not the computer.

P.S. No +1 button for posts?

Svartalf
Posts: 596
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2011 6:50 pm

Re: Wishes for 2nd gen Raspberry Pi

Fri Aug 26, 2011 5:41 pm

Quote from stuporhero on August 26, 2011, 18:37
It's down to the programmer to be efficient. Not the computer.

Heh... Indeed. I did some pretty amazing things with my ZX-80 kit, before I got the 16k upgrade...then it got more interesting... :-D

jamesh
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Posts: 24115
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 7:41 pm

Re: Wishes for 2nd gen Raspberry Pi

Fri Aug 26, 2011 7:28 pm

Quote from Svartalf on August 26, 2011, 17:55
Quote from IRBaboon on August 26, 2011, 16:16
Did i miss something? :?


Nope. Only problem is that if you used this part, you're talking a BeagleBoard/PandaBoard price right now. :D

And I don't believe that part is available yet.
Principal Software Engineer at Raspberry Pi (Trading) Ltd.
Contrary to popular belief, humorous signatures are allowed. Here's an example...
“I think it’s wrong that only one company makes the game Monopoly.” – Steven Wright

bnolsen
Posts: 76
Joined: Sat Aug 13, 2011 5:37 pm

Re: Wishes for 2nd gen Raspberry Pi

Sat Aug 27, 2011 4:19 am

Next generation should be just like this one. Take advantage of an accessible SOC. Hopefully by then we get stuff like embedded dram, embedded wireless, embedded voltage regulation, usb7.0, pci-e 9.0, sata 42Tb, etc which requires even fewer chips and traces.

reggie
Posts: 151
Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2011 11:51 am

Re: Wishes for 2nd gen Raspberry Pi

Sat Aug 27, 2011 11:39 am

Got to agree with almost everyone here, you can do loads with very little memory, I got doom running on 3 arm9 devices with 8MB, 32MB and 64MB ram respectively. 8MB unit required a swap file.

Lakes
Posts: 267
Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2011 2:17 pm

Re: Wishes for 2nd gen Raspberry Pi

Sat Aug 27, 2011 3:59 pm

People will want to add loads more stuff to the base unit, so have the next gen with stackable expansion boards like the ardunio shields.

User avatar
liz
Raspberry Pi Foundation Employee & Forum Moderator
Raspberry Pi Foundation Employee & Forum Moderator
Posts: 5202
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 7:22 pm
Contact: Website

Re: Wishes for 2nd gen Raspberry Pi

Sat Aug 27, 2011 4:26 pm

We're really enthusiastic about the idea of expansion boards, but it's definitely something for later down the line.
Director of Communications, Raspberry Pi

Enlightenment
Posts: 34
Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2011 10:16 pm

Re: Wishes for 2nd gen Raspberry Pi

Tue Aug 30, 2011 1:02 am

-removed-

Return to “General discussion”