hajj_3
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Re: Wish we chould use Micro SD instead of SD

Thu Jan 05, 2012 7:33 pm

I think R-pi guys should have used Micro SD, their reasoning was that micro sd card slots are less robust and the cards are too small and fiddly.

But the thing is most people will keep their SD card in their R-pi for the rest of the time they own the device so the size of the card won't matter. As for the micro sd card slot not being robust – some phones with micro sd cards slots within the back of the phone's case have a little clip that pins the card in place such as this example:



All you so is push the cover about 5mm then it lifts up like a hinge and you can easily replace the micro sd card. This means hardly any force is placed on the slot which keeps it very robust.

Having a micro sd card slot would be cheaper as i think the slots are cheaper and they use less pcb space which means they won't over-hang like on the beta boards. Hopefully the final boards won't over-hang as that means bigger more expensive cases would be needed which again increases costs.

The micro sd cards tend to start off a little cheaper too. £2.50 for micro SD 2gb vs £3.20 for SD on ebay. So a 70p saving for each R-pi for 3rd world countries that would need a 2gb card.

Hopefully the 2nd gen raspberry pi will use a micro SD card slot and the SD controller within the broadcom chip will comply with the latest SD 3.01 spec or newer (micro SDXC support and UHS-I/UHS-II support).

The micro card slot could have probably fit on top of the board too which would save money compared to putting it on the bottom of the board.

EDIT: title was supposed to say "wish we could use" not "Which we should use", can't edit it now.

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Re: Wish we should use Micro SD instead of SD

Thu Jan 05, 2012 8:25 pm

Whilst I like micro SD's those sockets you mention are horrible. I'm moving a card in and out of a phone for testing purposes, - the socket's pretty knackered already. They are just not up to the job of constant insertion and removal. I afraid I disagree with your comment that they stay put once in - that not my experience so far! I think one of the benefits of SD cards is you can pull one out, put another in and get a completely different system.
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Re: Wish we should use Micro SD instead of SD

Thu Jan 05, 2012 8:32 pm

Yeah - we did a lot of testing, and we found that the sockets are much, much less robust. We imagine that SD cards will be being swapped out quite a lot. Also, regular SD cards are harder to lose!

And it's important to remember that these are aimed at kids, who are not as careful with their hardware as we might be; I don't think that any later revisions will have micro SD, I'm afraid.
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Re: Wish we should use Micro SD instead of SD

Thu Jan 05, 2012 9:46 pm

Also I thought you'd mentioned that the current price of microSD sockets was considerably higher! Hopefully the price will drop and the reliabilty increase in the future as I can't see how you are going to fit in mounting holes with all the current connectors.

Or maybe I should just wait for St Peter to do a miracle!

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Re: Wish we should use Micro SD instead of SD

Thu Jan 05, 2012 11:25 pm

If it helps, I believe you can get half length micro SD adapters, which would solve your overhang issue. A quick Google didn't come up with much but I'm somewhat confident I've seen them before.

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Re: Wish we should use Micro SD instead of SD

Thu Jan 05, 2012 11:31 pm

They're very expensive, those half-length adaptors (and flimsy). There are also half-length USB adaptors available, but their price means they're not an option for the Raspberry Pi either.
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Re: Wish we should use Micro SD instead of SD

Fri Jan 06, 2012 12:34 am

there are alot of different micro sd card slots, some you just slide in like htc phones, some that have a spring and click into place and some like my photo where you place the card in and then put the hinge down and push the metal 5mm to close it.

I've hacked several orange san francisco phones to put custom android versions on and i've put the micro sd card in and out 100's of times, it still works perfectly.

You should try with many of the different connector types for micro sd types, the one i've shown will likely be the most reliable due to very little force being applied to the socket as you place the card in rather than forcefully shove it in like most spring loaded type micro sd card slots.

I could record a video of how the connector works if you need.

The project is aimed at kids but linux will be installed on the sd card and it will be for them in schools to program and surf on, those require an o.s. I can't see kids swapping the sd cards as they need their o.s on it, i can't see kids changing their o.s often. If there was a 2gb nand flash with the o.s on then you might have a point as kids might use the sd card to transfer files between computers but their o.s is installed on the sd card so that won't happen much at all.

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Re: Wish we should use Micro SD instead of SD

Fri Jan 06, 2012 12:51 am

Remember the Pi's primary goal is use in education. I can see in many educational settings it could be good for each student to have their own SD card (especially as you move beyond the basics and let the students fiddle with low level stuff) while it would be ideal for each student to have their own Pi that may not be in-budget in many places. In that case the cards would be getting taken in and out every class.

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Re: Wish we should use Micro SD instead of SD

Fri Jan 06, 2012 2:40 am

Using MicroSD on the Beaglebone is kinda fine for me. I could play with the spring-loaded insert/remove all day

However, for kids or those without fine motor control it would be a nightmare.

It's definitely too small, too light and too flimsy. They will get dropped, lost, inserted with too much force etc.

For these reasons plain SD is the best call. Easy to insert remove, unparalleled robustness (even better than CF last time I saw a test) and big enough to be harder to lose in a packed bag.

OTOH Micro USB is also a bit of a mare for these reasons, but the ubiquity of power supplies and it's use as a world mobile charging standard makes this a justifiable call.

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Re: Wish we should use Micro SD instead of SD

Fri Jan 06, 2012 3:07 am

Nothing to add to the discussion, just wanted to let you know I edited your title to read "wish" instead of "which"
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Re: Wish we should use Micro SD instead of SD

Fri Jan 06, 2012 3:49 am

I would like to also add that most full size SD cards have a write protection tab that could also be handy for the original purpose.

My son BTW has had microsd in all of his phones and the previous 2 phones he broke both of the microsd card holders.

I have Micro SD cards and use them a lot but I hate when I drop one as it is like looking for a contact lens, I choose to use most of them in the adapters to keep from losing them.

I find in regular retail stores that they tend to be the same price in lower capacities and higher priced than SD cards in larger capacities over 8gb.

I have SD cards that are only 128mb that are ancient and they still work.
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Re: Wish we should use Micro SD instead of SD

Fri Jan 06, 2012 6:16 am

hajj_3 said:

The micro sd cards tend to start off a little cheaper too. £2.50 for micro SD 2gb vs £3.20 for SD on ebay. So a 70p saving for each R-pi for 3rd world countries that would need a 2gb card.
I know that this isn't quite on-topic, but I saw this paragraph and had to respond.

*Please* don't suggest buying flash-media of any sort from eBay - it is a VERY bad idea, and likely to cause a lot of problems and loss of work if a kid (or anyone else) were to follow that example.

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Re: Wish we should use Micro SD instead of SD

Fri Jan 06, 2012 9:36 pm

Prometheus said:


hajj_3 said:


The micro sd cards tend to start off a little cheaper too. £2.50 for micro SD 2gb vs £3.20 for SD on ebay. So a 70p saving for each R-pi for 3rd world countries that would need a 2gb card.


I know that this isn't quite on-topic, but I saw this paragraph and had to respond.

*Please* don't suggest buying flash-media of any sort from eBay - it is a VERY bad idea, and likely to cause a lot of problems and loss of work if a kid (or anyone else) were to follow that example.


Not to mention that you can use a MicroSD card in an SD slot with a cheap adapter.

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Re: Wish we should use Micro SD instead of SD

Fri Jan 06, 2012 10:20 pm

Narishma said:


Prometheus said:


hajj_3 said:


The micro sd cards tend to start off a little cheaper too. £2.50 for micro SD 2gb vs £3.20 for SD on ebay. So a 70p saving for each R-pi for 3rd world countries that would need a 2gb card.


I know that this isn't quite on-topic, but I saw this paragraph and had to respond.

*Please* don't suggest buying flash-media of any sort from eBay - it is a VERY bad idea, and likely to cause a lot of problems and loss of work if a kid (or anyone else) were to follow that example.


Not to mention that you can use a MicroSD card in an SD slot with a cheap adapter.


And defo. not the other way round, which is a very good reason for SD!
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Re: Wish we should use Micro SD instead of SD

Wed Jan 11, 2012 6:14 pm

I was looking for topic where I can add a question and I found.. even answer . Just wondered if it is possible to work on micro SD cards via SD adapter (some micro SD are even sold with them). Hope JamesH is right and there would be no issue.

Has anyone was using such adapter with R-Pi and can confirm it works fine?

p.s. Helpful workaround - the math protection does not work properly. I've had to calculate 11+1, but the proper result of 100 is not working. Had to use calc to sum decimal numbers .

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Re: Wish we should use Micro SD instead of SD

Wed Jan 11, 2012 6:25 pm

Curinga said:


I was looking for topic where I can add a question and I found.. even answer . Just wondered if it is possible to work on micro SD cards via SD adapter (some micro SD are even sold with them). Hope JamesH is right and there would be no issue.

Has anyone was using such adapter with R-Pi and can confirm it works fine?

p.s. Helpful workaround - the math protection does not work properly. I've had to calculate 11+1, but the proper result of 100 is not working. Had to use calc to sum decimal numbers .



Ahhhh. That explains it. I was counting in Hex.

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Re: Wish we should use Micro SD instead of SD

Thu Jan 12, 2012 9:02 pm

Come on now, really, does it matter what type of card is used?  or effect how you use the device?

As long as they are common and price comparable with most types out there it don't make a difference.  People really get their knickers in a twist about all sorts.

If this post was at all intended to get things changed, it is months too late maybe even a year. So what was the point?

So Pi foundation: Why aren't the boards edible huh? bet you didn't think of that one

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Re: Wish we should use Micro SD instead of SD

Fri Jan 13, 2012 7:17 am

tumblebomb said:


So Pi foundation: Why aren't the boards edible huh? bet you didn't think of that one


No they missed that but I heard if you buy two and tie them to your waist they make an excellet loin cloth.  Provided you don't have big junk.

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Re: Wish we should use Micro SD instead of SD

Fri Jan 13, 2012 8:07 am

Grumpyoldgit said:


Curinga said:


I was looking for topic where I can add a question and I found.. even answer . Just wondered if it is possible to work on micro SD cards via SD adapter (some micro SD are even sold with them). Hope JamesH is right and there would be no issue.

Has anyone was using such adapter with R-Pi and can confirm it works fine?

p.s. Helpful workaround - the math protection does not work properly. I've had to calculate 11+1, but the proper result of 100 is not working. Had to use calc to sum decimal numbers .


Ahhhh. That explains it. I was counting in Hex.


No.  You were counting in binary.  Practice a little.  You will find binary addition and hexadecimal addition look quite different.

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Re: Wish we should use Micro SD instead of SD

Fri Jan 13, 2012 9:21 am

Curinga said:

Has anyone was using such adapter with R-Pi and can confirm it works fine?
I don't have an RPi, but the adaptors are just wiring, the connections are exactly the same but smaller. It would therefore be impossible for an adaptor not to work. Any failures would be down to a faulty adaptor, card or socket. Since 99% of problems are caused by bad connections, having some extra ones in the adaptor is going to lead to more problems, but probably not significantly more.

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Re: Wish we should use Micro SD instead of SD

Fri Jan 13, 2012 9:57 am

Abishur said
Nothing to add to the discussion, just wanted to let you know I edited your title to read "wish" instead of "which"

Maybe you could amend the 'should' to 'could' too?

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Re: Wish we should use Micro SD instead of SD

Fri Oct 12, 2012 8:04 pm

liz wrote:Yeah - we did a lot of testing, and we found that the sockets are much, much less robust. We imagine that SD cards will be being swapped out quite a lot. Also, regular SD cards are harder to lose!

And it's important to remember that these are aimed at kids, who are not as careful with their hardware as we might be; I don't think that any later revisions will have micro SD, I'm afraid.
Not to mention that by inserting and removing an SD card multiple times I've already cream-crackered the SD slot on my original Pi. So I'll just do some hardware hacking on it I guess :-)

R.

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Re: Wish we chould use Micro SD instead of SD

Thu Nov 08, 2012 8:50 pm

Slightly off topic: but has anyone a solution to robustly mount the SD card - I want to use a Pi in a nasty vibrating installation and don't want the card falling out. Suggestions?

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Re: Wish we chould use Micro SD instead of SD

Thu Nov 08, 2012 9:56 pm

duct tape?

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Re: Wish we chould use Micro SD instead of SD

Fri Nov 09, 2012 7:00 am

ReadiesCards wrote:Slightly off topic: but has anyone a solution to robustly mount the SD card - I want to use a Pi in a nasty vibrating installation and don't want the card falling out. Suggestions?
Try this:
https://www.adafruit.com/products/966

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