mitch161
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Re: was inspirational. now just economical. :(

Sun Oct 16, 2011 2:36 am

rasberry pi was first concieved as a pc on a memory stick sized board. using technology from a mobile phone. inspirational...

now though it seems to not be a rasberry pi at all but a bigger board from a project already released..

the beagle board
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhZeluSe ... re=related

so the ispiration of using a phone based technolofy to make affordable pc.. is now buying a ready existant technology.

so the hype has now been reduced to just producing a cheap pc.. not a inspirational new product

SlayingDragons
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Re: was inspirational. now just economical. :(

Sun Oct 16, 2011 2:48 am

Um... Bluntly, no. It was not thought up as an \'inspirational\' type of thing, nor a proof of concept. The entire point of it is to make a small, cheap, yet capable computer for kids for educational purposes, like programming.

And it\'s being done for charity. As in, non-profit. As in, this is all volunteer work from capable people that want to see this come together. It just so happens that what they\'re doing fits the needs of many general purpose application at a very low price. The beagleboard is hardly new, and this isn\'t intended to compete with it.

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abishur
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Re: was inspirational. now just economical. :(

Sun Oct 16, 2011 3:49 am

um... I think you\'ve missed... everything about this project. If you honestly think that and you\'re not just trolling to get a reaction, go ahead and re-read through the posts on the front page, the faqs, and any links to Eben talking (especially the slashdot, Eben Upton Talks) and then if you (somehow) still think this project\'s goal has changed one bit from the beginning, then we can talk.

Case in point, the memory stick product was a proof of concept work and never meant to be a final product. Such a device would have almost zero functionality at this point in time, another decade and sure, the r-pi might actually fit on a memory stick, but even then you\'d loose all gpios, the ethernet port and the more than one usb port. Which, frankly, is about the furthest you could get from producing a computer whose purpose is to encourage children to get into computers and would instead be another crap product that encourages children to be mere users of PCs
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aastaneh
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Re: was inspirational. now just economical. :(

Sun Oct 16, 2011 3:51 am

Not inspirational?

I must beg to differ. The low cost aspect and the implications of it are too stark to ignore. Do you remember how much computers cost back in the day of similar specifications to the Raspberry Pi? I believe the ARM chip equates to a Pentium II or similar in terms of processing power, and a Pentium II PC in 1998-99 costed well beyond $2000. Now you can get even better hardware for 1/50 to 1/80 of the cost, depending on what model you purchase. That makes computing accessible to anyone for any purpose. Yes, the Beagleboard exists and has somewhat similar specs - but the pricepoint is not at the place where we can just give one to children haphazardly to play with and then not be sad if it suffers an ill fate. This is the first time in history possibly where a person could buy a computer for less than the cost of a DVD or a video game. To me, that is extremely inspirational, because of all the applications it could be used for due to it being low-cost, and therefore almost disposable in a sense. Use your imagination - one could do more reckless and therefore more interesting things with a computer, or many computers for that matter, when it only costs $25-$35 each rather than $150, or $2000 from more than a decade ago. Using a Raspberry Pi and cheap off-the-shelf components, I could solve problems using computer science concepts such as machine vision, robotics, networking, and audio processing without really batting an eye at budget constraints. Not to mention that this will pave the way for computing and therefore the Internet to be accessible to many more people which has social implications as well.

obarthelemy
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Re: was inspirational. now just economical. :(

Sun Oct 16, 2011 10:57 am

Mmmm, in France, we call that crashing through an open door. Indeed, the single most important characteristics of the Pi is its price. You can get much faster PCs, much more portables tablets and netbooks, much more hack-friendly beagleboards or arduinos...
At some point, the fact that you can get a bit of all that for the price of a few coffees, and that you can hack it in a lot of ways, is inspirational in itself.
If on the coattails of that we manage to kickstart a revival of CS/IT interest in kids (and not games or web 2.0), that will be a double whammy.
I think of it a bit like literacy: early on, it required private tutors and expensive handcrafted, handwritten books. The invention of the printing press and of the universal educational system was inspirational.

PiOfCube
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Re: was inspirational. now just economical. :(

Sun Oct 16, 2011 11:18 am

For me, the Raspberry Pi is taking me back to the days of the ZX81. The kit version, not the ready-made one. Although, this time \'round it\'s even better because it is so much cheaper now.

The ZX81 got me seriously hooked on technology back then and I hope that now it will encourage more to give it a go... And as was said before, if they mess it up, lose interest, move onto other things, then it\'s only the cost of a big-title console game which probably wouldn\'t get as much use as the Raspberry Pi in many hands.

However (and I\'m sure the Raspberry Pi team would agree) the inspirational thing about the R-Pi should be what can be done with it and not the device itself... The Raspberry Pi itself is nothing new, but what the Raspberry Pi foundation is doing and what it might engage others into doing is and will be. The more people think of possibilities which encourages others to experiment, the better.

Edit:
I am not criticising the BeagleBoard but...
Beagle board: £124.80 + £24.96 Tax = £149.76
Raspberry Pi: You could get roughly 10 Raspberry Pi units for that!

So... \"was inspirational. now just economical\"...
Hell yeah, if the OP compares it to a BeagleBoard then it is \"just economical\"... In a good way :-)
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hippy
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Re: was inspirational. now just economical. :(

Sun Oct 16, 2011 3:00 pm

I don\'t see that the goals of R-Pi have changed. The same inspiration for it remains, as do the goals of low cost and small size, the purpose remains as an educational tool, fit for purpose.

Things always change in putting hardware into production and meeting price but I don\'t see any real change of direction. What has perhaps changed, is that people have started looking at how they could use the R-Pi for other things and that\'s getting the most attention; at least on this forum and in technical circles.

I don\'t expect the R-Pi Foundation would really care whether the community here were on-board or not, with our one-off notions and personal ideas of what to do with it, but imaginations are being fired, enthusiasm is being generated and that helps provide backing and resources for the R-Pi Foundation goals so is undoubtedly welcomed.

One could be cynical and suggest the \"educational goal\" was just a ploy to get Broadcom to hand over a micro to allow building a beagleboard or whatever clone cheaply. I don\'t believe that\'s the case, but I wouldn\'t be concerned if it was. Low-cost powerful system are \'inspirational\' in themselves, as is getting anything like the R-Pi on the market for $25. Inspirational and economical. Well done R-Pi Foundation.

Josh
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Re: was inspirational. now just economical. :(

Sun Oct 16, 2011 5:11 pm

Let\'s compare:
- Beagleboard xM: $149 - Built for people creating mobile devices and such...
- Raspberry Pi: $25/$35 - Built for children and education...

...I think you\'ve missed the point.

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Lob0426
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Re: was inspirational. now just economical. :(

Sun Oct 16, 2011 5:27 pm

The price and size is the inspiration. Many of us are going to be able to dabble with projects that we just could not afford to before. All of the prior solutions were much more expensive. Atom 330 board $85 + HDD $40 + memory $30 + case with PSU $50 plus a minimum footprint of about a shoe box. Beagle board $149 + SD card $8 + PSU $15 + cables $40 plus a footprint of about a CD case. Raspberry Pi $25 to $35 + SD card $8 + PSU $15 + cabling $40 and a footprint about the size of a credit card. It also should be noted that some of the other options are more powerful, than is really needed, for everyday tasks that will be the mainstay of the RasPi. I would have liked to have seen the USB stick sized product go into production but not if it was going to be $200 or $300. It would have been under powered at those prices. Do some searching around for SBC\'s and you will see that the RasPi is the most powerful device in its price range.

The innovation is the price. The Raspberry Pi foundation mission has not changed that I can see. They stated from the first that their mission was to bring a $25 \"computer\" to market as a programming tool for children in schools. It appears to me they are on target at this point.
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ffuentes
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Re: was inspirational. now just economical. :(

Sun Oct 16, 2011 5:28 pm

I understand the Raspberry Pi as a project to help the children and other people to learn computing like in the eighties with Atari\'s, Commodore 64s, Spectrums in a cheap way and it\'s something that has been lost during the Windows generation. I already knew the beagleboard but is expensive to me and, for instance, to any school specially in a developing country.

max1zzz
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Re: was inspirational. now just economical. :(

Sun Oct 16, 2011 5:43 pm

As has been said over and over in this thread, you have missed the point, to you £140 - £150 may not be allot, but to me as a kid, that is a hell of a lot, hence i would accomplish nothing on it knowing if i brake it, that\'s it. The raspberry pi, weather it is a clone of the beagle board or not, i can play around with it, knowing that if i brake it i can have another one sitting on my desk, at the mercy of my soldering iron (or that terminal command im not 100% sure what it dose) in about a month.
and how can it not be inspirational, aside from the price, have you seen what people plan to do with it? from low cost tablets, to programming, to robotics. it never ceases to amaze me how the rpi has got people thinking, without even releasing the product yet.

tufty
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Re: was inspirational. now just economical. :(

Sun Oct 16, 2011 7:56 pm

Exactly. It\'s in the pocket money price range. If nothing else, it gives kids who have an inclination to do programming stuff the ability to go and get one for themselves. It remains to be seen whether, especially in these days when computing is not actually taught, those who wouldn\'t already be hooked can be hooked. A lot of that is down to the ability of teachers, but even so, RasPi puts a big arrow in their quiver for very little money. How many schools are gonna be able to turn down a teacher who wants to buy a few when they cost less than the average textbook?

obarthelemy
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Re: was inspirational. now just economical. :(

Mon Oct 17, 2011 2:57 am

@max1zzz plus the way the Pi boots off a regular SD, you can\'t break it via software: just restore a pristine system image, and start over.
From my current experience with another ARM, SD-based gizmo, SD are incredibly slow though. dd if=SD#1 of=SD#2 bs=150M (the biggest i could) took about 2hrs for 8GB.

mitch161
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Re: was inspirational. now just economical. :(

Thu Oct 20, 2011 4:17 am

i know this i was just trying to ensure rasberry pi had all the info about competitors so they can strategtise their market about the whole \"inspre inspirational thinking and products\" and to let go of the inventor being inspired to inspiration MAKE a small product.. concentrate on the inspiration it will bring ....and not the inventors soldering skills as its proven the board is not what the inventor made.

marketing should be about the ideas that can now manifest from a finished product. EG LEGO.. we dont here about the guy that thought up the idea of joining 2 pieces of plastic together we hear about what can be done with the plastic pieces

i remember the first concept of this RPI was a guy showing off how he turned a phone circuitboard into a PC.... let go of that concept... put all marketting idea\'s on the future possibilities that the users can make from the finalised product.

even now i see recent video stuff and news talking about the inventor and phone technology.. let that go.. market it from the users potential output not the inventors input and this product will explode in popularity around the world

barnaby
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Re: was inspirational. now just economical. :(

Thu Oct 20, 2011 7:14 am

It\'s good to see that actually, pretty much everybody understands the goals of Raspi.

Before reading this thread, I thought it was going to be some kind of miserable hate filled rant about Steve jobs :(

Cheers,
Barnaby

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Re: was inspirational. now just economical. :(

Thu Oct 20, 2011 2:40 pm

[quote]Quote from mitch161 on October 20, 2011, 05:17
i know this i was just trying to ensure rasberry pi had all the info about competitors so they can strategtise their market about the whole \"inspre inspirational thinking and products\" and to let go of the inventor being inspired to inspiration MAKE a small product.. concentrate on the inspiration it will bring ....and not the inventors soldering skills as its proven the board is not what the inventor made.

marketing should be about the ideas that can now manifest from a finished product. EG LEGO.. we dont here about the guy that thought up the idea of joining 2 pieces of plastic together we hear about what can be done with the plastic pieces

i remember the first concept of this RPI was a guy showing off how he turned a phone circuitboard into a PC.... let go of that concept... put all marketting idea\'s on the future possibilities that the users can make from the finalised product.

even now i see recent video stuff and news talking about the inventor and phone technology.. let that go.. market it from the users potential output not the inventors input and this product will explode in popularity around the world[/quote]

Most of the posts of this forum are showing exactly what you appear to be saying - what is possible with the board, not who makes it or how its made, so I\'m not sure what point you are trying to make. Whilst the Raspi Pi people are perfectly aware of other devices out there, they are not competitors. We are not trying to compete with them in their particular markets,and we are not marketting ourselves as competitors to them. Raspi is a charity.

We also don\'t get particularly involved in marketing, just pushing the agenda for which the device was conceived, that of teaching computer programming skills to people at the lowest possible cost. The fact that this is best accomplished using mobile phone chips on a small form factor board is actually irrelevant. Had it been cheaper to use an Atom and full size board that would have been the way to go.

The original board was not conceived as a teaching platform, it was build as a test to see how small you could do it. It was this board that sparked the idea of the low cost teaching aid. The board has now got bigger, because it is cheaper that way - entirely in line with the aim of the project.
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