RaspiFanBoy
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Which distro do you have on your Pi?

Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:31 am

Hey guys. Which distro do you have or which distro do you recommend?

wildfire
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Re: Which distro do you have on your Pi?

Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:36 am

RaspiFanBoy wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:31 am
which distro do you recommend?
Which Pi and what is your main priorities for use?
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RaspiFanBoy
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Re: Which distro do you have on your Pi?

Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:42 am

wildfire wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:36 am
RaspiFanBoy wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:31 am
which distro do you recommend?
Which Pi and what is your main priorities for use?
Raspberry pi 4 8gb ram. But only say which os do you have or which do you recommend

Heater
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Re: Which distro do you have on your Pi?

Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:46 am

Raspberry Pi OS of course. https://www.raspberrypi.org/downloads/

Why would anyone want to use anything else?
Memory in C++ is a leaky abstraction .

pagenotfound
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Re: Which distro do you have on your Pi?

Tue Sep 15, 2020 12:05 pm

Heater wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:46 am
Raspberry Pi OS of course. https://www.raspberrypi.org/downloads/

Why would anyone want to use anything else?
Because the packages in Raspberry Pi OS tend to be seriously outdated, to the point where newer versions are a real improvement.

This coming from someone who grudgingly uses Raspberry Pi OS (32 bit) nevertheless because otherwise it IS clearly the best option.

cjan
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Re: Which distro do you have on your Pi?

Tue Sep 15, 2020 12:09 pm

Heater wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:46 am
Raspberry Pi OS of course. https://www.raspberrypi.org/downloads/

Why would anyone want to use anything else?
they want 64bit OS but not beta.

wildfire
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Re: Which distro do you have on your Pi?

Tue Sep 15, 2020 12:21 pm

Hence my reply to the OP, what is your main priorities?
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Still NF Shirls

GlowInTheDark
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Re: Which distro do you have on your Pi?

Tue Sep 15, 2020 12:25 pm

This is one of those: If you have to ask, then just go with the flow (i.e., Raspbian).

Basically, Raspbian is the "Windows" of the Pi world - it is what everybody uses unless they have a really good reason to use something else. And I say this as someone who has "strayed off the path" a few times, trying out other OSes, and then realizing it just isn't worth the pain. I always come back.

Anyway, if you want bleeding edge, try Arch. I ran that for a while, and it was cool always having the absolute latest of everything - I was amazed at how they do it - but eventually ended up concluding that it was just too weird for any serious use.
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Heater
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Re: Which distro do you have on your Pi?

Tue Sep 15, 2020 12:45 pm

pagenotfound wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 12:05 pm
Because the packages in Raspberry Pi OS tend to be seriously outdated, to the point where newer versions are a real improvement.
Not "outdated".

Rather "in their prime". Tried, tested, stable. Just what you want in an operating system.

When I want new versions of anything I just install it on my stable OS base.
Memory in C++ is a leaky abstraction .

Heater
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Re: Which distro do you have on your Pi?

Tue Sep 15, 2020 12:48 pm

cjan wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 12:09 pm
...they want 64bit OS but not beta.
As far as I can tell all 64bit OS are "beta" on the Pi. The video core and whatever is still "beta" and everybody depends on that.

Most of the rest of Pi OS 64 is directly from 64 bit Debian. Which makes me think it's a lot less beta than other distros.
Memory in C++ is a leaky abstraction .

bjtheone
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Re: Which distro do you have on your Pi?

Tue Sep 15, 2020 12:57 pm

pagenotfound wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 12:05 pm
Heater wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:46 am
Raspberry Pi OS of course. https://www.raspberrypi.org/downloads/

Why would anyone want to use anything else?
Because the packages in Raspberry Pi OS tend to be seriously outdated, to the point where newer versions are a real improvement.

This coming from someone who grudgingly uses Raspberry Pi OS (32 bit) nevertheless because otherwise it IS clearly the best option.
However all the Pi Hardware tweaks and optimizations live in Raspberry Pi OS... Easier to install that and then just add whatever package you desperately need to be leading or bleeding edge. After more than 20 years with Linux, leading and bleeding edge has somewhat lost its allure. Been there, done that, quite like "it just works".

Personally I tend to run Lite plus the window manager of my choice since I don't particularly like LXDE, and run MATE on all my other Linux desktops.

pagenotfound
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Re: Which distro do you have on your Pi?

Tue Sep 15, 2020 1:27 pm

Heater wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 12:45 pm
pagenotfound wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 12:05 pm
Because the packages in Raspberry Pi OS tend to be seriously outdated, to the point where newer versions are a real improvement.
Not "outdated".

Rather "in their prime". Tried, tested, stable. Just what you want in an operating system.

When I want new versions of anything I just install it on my stable OS base.
In your idealized imagination of what happens a Debian perhaps.

In reality, I even have programs that introduced bugs and regressions during the switch to Buster. Like, the frequent crashes type of bugs. And Debian stable doesn't do bug fixes unless they are security related...

And then there are browsers, which for years haven't even tried to reach any state of maturity, favoring high speed development instead. "Tried, tested, stable" is for losers only. Sadly, in the long run you have to go with that because websites rely on the speed increases or stop working for you at all, you miss out on new features and - again - don't even get old bugs fixed.

As for installing newer versions yourself, this very forum is plastered with warnings against that. I've done it myself on a few occasions and maybe 70% of the time it worked without introducing new problems but that route is certainly not for everyone.

(Don't remind me of the time when I had to compile dozens of dependencies and dependencies of dependencies of the development version of Gimp on the previous version of Raspbian)

pagenotfound
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Re: Which distro do you have on your Pi?

Tue Sep 15, 2020 1:34 pm

bjtheone wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 12:57 pm
pagenotfound wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 12:05 pm
Heater wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:46 am
Raspberry Pi OS of course. https://www.raspberrypi.org/downloads/

Why would anyone want to use anything else?
Because the packages in Raspberry Pi OS tend to be seriously outdated, to the point where newer versions are a real improvement.

This coming from someone who grudgingly uses Raspberry Pi OS (32 bit) nevertheless because otherwise it IS clearly the best option.
However all the Pi Hardware tweaks and optimizations live in Raspberry Pi OS... Easier to install that and then just add whatever package you desperately need to be leading or bleeding edge. After more than 20 years with Linux, leading and bleeding edge has somewhat lost its allure. Been there, done that, quite like "it just works".

Personally I tend to run Lite plus the window manager of my choice since I don't particularly like LXDE, and run MATE on all my other Linux desktops.
As I said, I use Raspberry Pi OS nevertheless and you gave some of the reasons. If you and Heater would be kind enough to explain your universal, easy and safe way to install newer packages on top of that, this thread would deserve to become sticky, IMO.

jamesh
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Re: Which distro do you have on your Pi?

Tue Sep 15, 2020 1:45 pm

pagenotfound wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 1:34 pm
bjtheone wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 12:57 pm
pagenotfound wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 12:05 pm


Because the packages in Raspberry Pi OS tend to be seriously outdated, to the point where newer versions are a real improvement.

This coming from someone who grudgingly uses Raspberry Pi OS (32 bit) nevertheless because otherwise it IS clearly the best option.
However all the Pi Hardware tweaks and optimizations live in Raspberry Pi OS... Easier to install that and then just add whatever package you desperately need to be leading or bleeding edge. After more than 20 years with Linux, leading and bleeding edge has somewhat lost its allure. Been there, done that, quite like "it just works".

Personally I tend to run Lite plus the window manager of my choice since I don't particularly like LXDE, and run MATE on all my other Linux desktops.
As I said, I use Raspberry Pi OS nevertheless and you gave some of the reasons. If you and Heater would be kind enough to explain your universal, easy and safe way to install newer packages on top of that, this thread would deserve to become sticky, IMO.
Download source code, install dependencies, follow build instructions.

I just did that with VSCode, a not inconsiderable software package. It worked.

YMMV.
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jahboater
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Re: Which distro do you have on your Pi?

Tue Sep 15, 2020 2:00 pm

I always put the latest version of Python and GCC on each new Raspberry Pi OS install.
Everything else works well enough.

Python is trivial (the usual ./configue && make && sudo make install).
GCC takes some time to build (unattended), but the Pi4 handles it easily.
Pi4 8GB (Raspberry Pi OS 64-bit), Pi4 4GB, Pi4 2GB, Pi1 Rev 1 256MB, Pi Zero

pagenotfound
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Re: Which distro do you have on your Pi?

Tue Sep 15, 2020 2:23 pm

jamesh wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 1:45 pm


Download source code, install dependencies, follow build instructions.

I just did that with VSCode, a not inconsiderable software package. It worked.

YMMV.
I know. Even done it, although it's often easier said than done. It's the YMMV part that worries me.

So I have to make a copy of the card and then go through all the hassle. Becomes tedious for me real quick. I guess I'm not the kind of person who enjoys tinkering by itself. Typing apt upgrade and then doing what I actually want to work on is so much nicer.

I've always wondered whether, given the resources that you have now from the very beginning, you would have based Raspian on Ubuntu or something.

pagenotfound
Posts: 127
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Re: Which distro do you have on your Pi?

Tue Sep 15, 2020 2:31 pm

jahboater wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 2:00 pm
I always put the latest version of Python and GCC on each new Raspberry Pi OS install.
Everything else works well enough.

Python is trivial (the usual ./configue && make && sudo make install).
GCC takes some time to build (unattended), but the Pi4 handles it easily.
Yeah, some stuff is surprisingly easy and fast. The ones I want the most, not so much. There was a time when you needed to be a Hogwarts graduate to compile Firefox and I'm not sure it's gotten any easier since the last time I checked.

dbrion06
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Re: Which distro do you have on your Pi?

Tue Sep 15, 2020 2:55 pm

you would have based Raspian on Ubuntu or something.
Well, they always based on some nice things:
Fedora can have brillant ideas, though they are not that user friendly
UBU linux is based on .... Debian . Why should they add extra noise?

BTW: methodical testing is very long and tedious... If one is lazy, (I am lazy: I only have dlib and opencv compiled, which is slow -takes maybe a night- and simple -and gives me opencv 4.4 this week: debian one is 3.x, IIRC) one can read good books and wait til it is perfectly stable.

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jahboater
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Re: Which distro do you have on your Pi?

Tue Sep 15, 2020 3:05 pm

pagenotfound wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 2:31 pm
Yeah, some stuff is surprisingly easy and fast. The ones I want the most, not so much. There was a time when you needed to be a Hogwarts graduate to compile Firefox and I'm not sure it's gotten any easier since the last time I checked.
GCC takes around 3.5 hours, but who cares - just start it building and go off to do something else!
In the past, on older Pi models, you left it overnight and had to mess with extra swap, but its quicker now.
Pi4 8GB (Raspberry Pi OS 64-bit), Pi4 4GB, Pi4 2GB, Pi1 Rev 1 256MB, Pi Zero

jamesh
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Re: Which distro do you have on your Pi?

Tue Sep 15, 2020 3:09 pm

pagenotfound wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 2:23 pm
jamesh wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 1:45 pm


Download source code, install dependencies, follow build instructions.

I just did that with VSCode, a not inconsiderable software package. It worked.

YMMV.
I know. Even done it, although it's often easier said than done. It's the YMMV part that worries me.

So I have to make a copy of the card and then go through all the hassle. Becomes tedious for me real quick. I guess I'm not the kind of person who enjoys tinkering by itself. Typing apt upgrade and then doing what I actually want to work on is so much nicer.

I've always wondered whether, given the resources that you have now from the very beginning, you would have based Raspian on Ubuntu or something.
So what is stable that you need updating that you actually need? Because I do dev work all the time and rarely need to update anything. The VSCode thing was a notable exception.
Principal Software Engineer at Raspberry Pi (Trading) Ltd.
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W. H. Heydt
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Re: Which distro do you have on your Pi?

Tue Sep 15, 2020 3:12 pm

pagenotfound wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 1:27 pm
"Tried, tested, stable" is for losers only.
I beg to differ. After working as a professional programmer for 40 years, I place a very high value on stable systems. As a result, I exclusively run RPiOS on my Pis. I recommend that anyone who doesn't have a specific need that is not met by RPiOS *and* has the requisite skills to be do all of their own system administration work should do so as well. That applies even more strongly to anyone new to Pis.

pagenotfound
Posts: 127
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Re: Which distro do you have on your Pi?

Tue Sep 15, 2020 3:25 pm

W. H. Heydt wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 3:12 pm
pagenotfound wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 1:27 pm
"Tried, tested, stable" is for losers only.
I beg to differ. After working as a professional programmer for 40 years, I place a very high value on stable systems. As a result, I exclusively run RPiOS on my Pis. I recommend that anyone who doesn't have a specific need that is not met by RPiOS *and* has the requisite skills to be do all of their own system administration work should do so as well. That applies even more strongly to anyone new to Pis.
You might want to read the context again. I was being sarcastic and even somewhat bitter referring to the attitude of the Mozilla/Firefox and Chrome people these days. And I've made it clear that I'm already following your recommendation.

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davidcoton
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Re: Which distro do you have on your Pi?

Tue Sep 15, 2020 3:39 pm

RaspiFanBoy wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:42 am
wildfire wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:36 am
RaspiFanBoy wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:31 am
which distro do you recommend?
Which Pi and what is your main priorities for use?
Raspberry pi 4 8gb ram. But only say which os do you have or which do you recommend
Once again a question asked and critical information deliberately withheld, so you don't get the "best" answer. The recommendation clearly depends on the answer to wildfire's question.

Followed by a neat hijack by pagenotfound.... :roll:
pagenotfound wrote:
W. H. Heydt wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 3:12 pm
pagenotfound wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 1:27 pm
"Tried, tested, stable" is for losers only.
I beg to differ. After working as a professional programmer for 40 years, I place a very high value on stable systems. As a result, I exclusively run RPiOS on my Pis. I recommend that anyone who doesn't have a specific need that is not met by RPiOS *and* has the requisite skills to be do all of their own system administration work should do so as well. That applies even more strongly to anyone new to Pis.
You might want to read the context again. I was being sarcastic and even somewhat bitter referring to the attitude of the Mozilla/Firefox and Chrome people these days. And I've made it clear that I'm already following your recommendation.
I agree with WHH. Every development project I was involved with decided early on whether it was "bleeding edge" requiring extra pain and effort to make it work, or a bit more conservative to gain stability and reduce underlying bugs. Both approaches (and the range in between) are valid, depending on customer/marketing/technology decisions made in a context that includes more than the Engineering team.

BTW, sarcasm doesn't show well on paper, it often relies on tone of voice and is not universally recognised. If you must use it, flag it more clearly.
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Heater
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Re: Which distro do you have on your Pi?

Tue Sep 15, 2020 3:55 pm

An old Finnish friend of mine was fond of saying "You get what you order". I was never quite sure what it was supposed to mean exactly, suspecting it was some kind of Finnish idiom rendered in broken English. Except that it usually came after I started complaining because whatever I was trying to do had all gone horribly wrong.

There are many operating systems available for the Pi. Just select one, based on whatever criteria you may have. Just remember "You get what you order".
Memory in C++ is a leaky abstraction .

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kerry_s
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Re: Which distro do you have on your Pi?

Tue Sep 15, 2020 4:07 pm

have:
rpi 4 4gb
running:
raspberry os 64bit on dual screens

recommend:
raspberry os 32bit

thoughts:
both raspberry os versions have there quirks, if your new & inexperienced 32bit version is where your going to find the most help as it's what most will be using. 64bit still has a few gotchas being a beta release.

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