myystiquee
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Does Raspberry PI 4 have problems in 2020?

Fri Jul 24, 2020 7:21 pm

Hello!

I'm new and I'd like to buy a Raspberry PI 4.
While doing my research I came across an article, dated August 2019, highlighting problems with version 4 including a power supply problem with the USB-C and overheating problems. The article went on to say that these problems "should be fixed in the coming weeks".

So I would like to know if today, in July 2020, the Raspberry PI 4 have been reviewed and if these problems persist?

Thank you and have a nice day!

jamesh
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Re: Does Raspberry PI 4 have problems in 2020?

Fri Jul 24, 2020 7:35 pm

Fixed months ago, but this post is very similar to another one posted a few days which I cannot find in my quick look, so I suspect is spam.

So, if I find the other one, and its the same, you are out of here.
Principal Software Engineer at Raspberry Pi (Trading) Ltd.
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rpdom
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Re: Does Raspberry PI 4 have problems in 2020?

Fri Jul 24, 2020 7:41 pm

jamesh wrote:
Fri Jul 24, 2020 7:35 pm
Fixed months ago, but this post is very similar to another one posted a few days which I cannot find in my quick look, so I suspect is spam.

So, if I find the other one, and its the same, you are out of here.
Was it this one viewtopic.php?p=1701237 ? Not sure it's the same.
Unreadable squiggle

pidd
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Re: Does Raspberry PI 4 have problems in 2020?

Fri Jul 24, 2020 7:48 pm

Name a device or software that has definitely got no problems? Name any manufacture that has had no problems? Name a software warehouse that has had no problems?

There are many people using the Pi4's very happily, there are many running 24/7 without any issues.

myystiquee
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Re: Does Raspberry PI 4 have problems in 2020?

Fri Jul 24, 2020 8:04 pm

Thank you everyone for your reply.

For jamesh : No, I'm not spam, don't worry.

For pidd : Sorry, I didn't mean for my message to sound like an attack on Raspberry. I'm aware that many companies have bugs with the distribution of a new product.
In this case, pi 4 has been reviewed and it's cool and that's all I wanted to know. I'm glad to know that many Raspberry users are happy and I hope to become one too!

W. H. Heydt
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Re: Does Raspberry PI 4 have problems in 2020?

Fri Jul 24, 2020 8:23 pm

myystiquee wrote:
Fri Jul 24, 2020 8:04 pm
Thank you everyone for your reply.

For jamesh : No, I'm not spam, don't worry.

For pidd : Sorry, I didn't mean for my message to sound like an attack on Raspberry. I'm aware that many companies have bugs with the distribution of a new product.
In this case, pi 4 has been reviewed and it's cool and that's all I wanted to know. I'm glad to know that many Raspberry users are happy and I hope to become one too!
Note also that if you use the quite inexpensive RPF PSU, the Pi4B never had a power issue in the first place. That "issue" was more of a tempest in a teapot than anything else.

cleverca22
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Re: Does Raspberry PI 4 have problems in 2020?

Sat Jul 25, 2020 4:10 am

one of the other threads also mentioned, that only a usb-c PSU that costs more then a pi4, is smart enough to notice the problem the pi4 originally had

so i feel like most users wont be having such a PSU just laying around, and likely would never notice the problem

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rpdom
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Re: Does Raspberry PI 4 have problems in 2020?

Sat Jul 25, 2020 5:53 am

cleverca22 wrote:
Sat Jul 25, 2020 4:10 am
one of the other threads also mentioned, that only a usb-c PSU that costs more then a pi4, is smart enough to notice the problem the pi4 originally had

so i feel like most users wont be having such a PSU just laying around, and likely would never notice the problem
Examples of the sort of power supplies that have this issue are Apple iPad and iPhone chargers. Quite a few people already have those and would probably expect them to work on a Pi with USB-C power input.

I doubt many people would go and buy one of them just for the Pi, although having worked with some raving Apple "fanbois" ;) I can well believe that they would.
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hippy
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Re: Does Raspberry PI 4 have problems in 2020?

Sat Jul 25, 2020 7:36 am

myystiquee wrote:
Fri Jul 24, 2020 7:21 pm
So I would like to know if today, in July 2020, the Raspberry PI 4 have been reviewed and if these problems persist?
The Pi 4B boards now being manufactured have been updated so the USB-C issue no longer exists on those. But some older boards may still be in some supply chains and can be encountered outside those.

For the overwhelming majority of people not being fully USB-C compliant was never an issue and won't ever be.

jamesh
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Re: Does Raspberry PI 4 have problems in 2020?

Sat Jul 25, 2020 9:42 am

I suspect the supply chain has flushed through all the old boards - we sell as many as we make, and we make a lot so very unlikely people will still have stocks of the older revision.
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mwrich4
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Re: Does Raspberry PI 4 have problems in 2020?

Sun Jul 26, 2020 3:45 pm

So much help desk time is wasted with uncertainty when the board rev is not updated religiously.

jdb
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Re: Does Raspberry PI 4 have problems in 2020?

Sun Jul 26, 2020 3:53 pm

mwrich4 wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 3:45 pm
So much help desk time is wasted with uncertainty when the board rev is not updated religiously.
What does this statement mean?
Rockets are loud.
https://astro-pi.org

Moonmarch
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Re: Does Raspberry PI 4 have problems in 2020?

Sun Jul 26, 2020 5:12 pm

Does the Raspberry Pi 4 continue to have the same problems that were reported to the news? This article explains how the Raspberry Pi 4 computer revision solves the USB-C compatibility situation:

Raspberry Pi 4 Revision Fixes USB-C Compatibility Problem
https://www.tomshardware.com/news/raspb ... b-c-update

Here is a link to a article that explains USB boot on the Raspberry Pi 4 computer:

Raspberry Pi 4 owners can now forgo an SD card entirely and boot files and software directly from a USB mass storage device.
https://www.techrepublic.com/article/ra ... sb-device/

Is the Raspberry Pi 4 computer being updated with new features? Yes, I do not see why that would be a problem in July 2020. Here is a link to a article that explains the release of the Raspberry PI 4 B 8GB computer model:

Raspberry Pi Foundation announces Raspberry Pi 4 with 8GB of RAM
https://techcrunch.com/2020/05/28/raspb ... gb-of-ram/

The name of the Raspbian operating system was changed to Raspberry Pi OS. The official 64 bit version of Raspberry Pi OS has a beta release. To use 8 GB of RAM, you need to use a 64 bit operating system. There is plenty of news about the Raspberry Pi computers.

GlowInTheDark
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Re: Does Raspberry PI 4 have problems in 2020?

Sun Jul 26, 2020 5:16 pm

To use 8 GB of RAM, you need to use a 64 bit operating system.
False.
GitD's list of things that are not ready for prime time:
1) IPv6
2) 64 bit OSes
3) USB 3
4) Bluetooth

W. H. Heydt
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Re: Does Raspberry PI 4 have problems in 2020?

Sun Jul 26, 2020 5:42 pm

GlowInTheDark wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 5:16 pm
To use 8 GB of RAM, you need to use a 64 bit operating system.
False.
Incomplete. RPiOS32 can use the whole 8GB, but no one process can use more than 3GB.

GlowInTheDark
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Re: Does Raspberry PI 4 have problems in 2020?

Sun Jul 26, 2020 5:51 pm

W. H. Heydt wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 5:42 pm
GlowInTheDark wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 5:16 pm
To use 8 GB of RAM, you need to use a 64 bit operating system.
False.
Incomplete. RPiOS32 can use the whole 8GB, but no one process can use more than 3GB.
True.
GitD's list of things that are not ready for prime time:
1) IPv6
2) 64 bit OSes
3) USB 3
4) Bluetooth

jahboater
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Re: Does Raspberry PI 4 have problems in 2020?

Sun Jul 26, 2020 6:04 pm

W. H. Heydt wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 5:42 pm
GlowInTheDark wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 5:16 pm
To use 8 GB of RAM, you need to use a 64 bit operating system.
False.
Incomplete. RPiOS32 can use the whole 8GB, but no one process can use more than 3GB.
Inefficient. RPiOS32 uses LPAE and has to page stuff in and out all the time.
Pi4 8GB running PIOS64 Lite

Moonmarch
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Re: Does Raspberry PI 4 have problems in 2020?

Sun Jul 26, 2020 6:24 pm

This is not a topic about 64-bit operating systems. The ARM computer version of a 64-bit operating system is called ARM64 or AARCH64. That is all I know about 64-bit operating systems on ARM computers. The "Raspberry Pi people" were using the the 64-bit version of the Raspbian operating system much longer than myself. I didn't use the 64-bit version of Raspbian for numerous reasons I will not mention at this moment.

I found this article on the Microsoft website website that explains Physical Address Extensions for X86 based computers:

Physical Address Extension - Win32 apps
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/window ... dfrom=MSDN

I have a link to a topic on Tom's Hardware Forum about 8GB of RAM on a Windows 32-bit PC:

Can you run 8gb ram in 32 bit windows - Tom's Hardware Forum
https://forums.tomshardware.com/threads ... s.2919044/

If you read the conversation, you will see a user will say "do not bother installing anymore RAM" to a 32-bit computer. If the computer has 8 GB of RAM, Windows 32-bit will only see 4 GB of RAM. This means using a 64-bit operating with 8GB of RAM is unavoidable. The Raspberry Pi 4 computer uses a 64-bit processor.

jahboater
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Re: Does Raspberry PI 4 have problems in 2020?

Sun Jul 26, 2020 6:30 pm

Moonmarch wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 6:24 pm
If you read the conversation, you will see a user will say "do not bother installing anymore RAM" to a 32-bit computer. If the computer has 8 GB of RAM, Windows 32-bit will only see 4 GB of RAM.
That's WIndows. Linux on the other hand (LPAE not PAE) does rather better by the looks of it and can use all all of the 8GB.
However I still regard it as a temporary fix until a proper 64-bit OS is ready.

The beta RPiOS 64 seems to work well, and all the user land stuff is straight from the Debian repositories - presumably meaning less work for the RPF engineers to support it.

In 64-bit mode it runs a different instruction set which is more modern and designed for best performance on the recent out-of-order CPU's like the Cortex-A72 in the Pi4.
Pi4 8GB running PIOS64 Lite

jamesh
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Re: Does Raspberry PI 4 have problems in 2020?

Sun Jul 26, 2020 7:10 pm

Moonmarch wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 6:24 pm
This is not a topic about 64-bit operating systems. The ARM computer version of a 64-bit operating system is called ARM64 or AARCH64. That is all I know about 64-bit operating systems on ARM computers. The "Raspberry Pi people" were using the the 64-bit version of the Raspbian operating system much longer than myself. I didn't use the 64-bit version of Raspbian for numerous reasons I will not mention at this moment.

I found this article on the Microsoft website website that explains Physical Address Extensions for X86 based computers:

Physical Address Extension - Win32 apps
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/window ... dfrom=MSDN

I have a link to a topic on Tom's Hardware Forum about 8GB of RAM on a Windows 32-bit PC:

Can you run 8gb ram in 32 bit windows - Tom's Hardware Forum
https://forums.tomshardware.com/threads ... s.2919044/

If you read the conversation, you will see a user will say "do not bother installing anymore RAM" to a 32-bit computer. If the computer has 8 GB of RAM, Windows 32-bit will only see 4 GB of RAM. This means using a 64-bit operating with 8GB of RAM is unavoidable. The Raspberry Pi 4 computer uses a 64-bit processor.

Please refrain from posting such irrelevant information.

As above, the 32bit kernel in PiOS enables LPAE (Large Physical address extensions), which means the kernel can access ALL 8GB of RAM. The limitation is that an individual process can only access 3GB.

On 64 bit kernels they can address large memory by default so LPAE is not needed, and there is no limitation (well, there is but not relevant) on process emmory.
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Heater
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Re: Does Raspberry PI 4 have problems in 2020?

Sun Jul 26, 2020 7:10 pm

There is the thing. When you switch your CPU to 64 bit mode and use a 64 bit OS you are dealing with a completely different architecture. Different instructions, more/different registers, more address space, etc.

That is as much true of ARM as it is Intel.
Memory in C++ is a leaky abstraction .

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dickon
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Re: Does Raspberry PI 4 have problems in 2020?

Sun Jul 26, 2020 8:45 pm

Heater wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 7:10 pm
There is the thing. When you switch your CPU to 64 bit mode and use a 64 bit OS you are dealing with a completely different architecture. Different instructions, more/different registers, more address space, etc.

That is as much true of ARM as it is Intel.
Moreso of ARM than Intel, actually. aarch64 is fundamentally different to aarch32 and when you're in one mode, instructions in the other will be misinterpreted or fault; you can't interleave them (although the 32b registers are available in aarch64 mode). With amd64, (almost) all the IA32 instructions are still present and functional; the 64b stuff is an extension.

lurk101
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Re: Does Raspberry PI 4 have problems in 2020?

Sun Jul 26, 2020 10:21 pm

jahboater wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 6:04 pm
W. H. Heydt wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 5:42 pm
GlowInTheDark wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 5:16 pm


False.
Incomplete. RPiOS32 can use the whole 8GB, but no one process can use more than 3GB.
Inefficient. RPiOS32 uses LPAE and has to page stuff in and out all the time.
LPAE does not have to "page stuff in and out all the time". It doesn't work that way.
Listening to Radio Paradise

hippy
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Re: Does Raspberry PI 4 have problems in 2020?

Mon Jul 27, 2020 12:00 pm

Why is how much memory a Pi process can access being considered as if "a problem" in the first place ?

"A problem" is when something doesn't work when it would reasonably be expected to. Amount of memory addressed doesn't seem to fit in that category to me, would more fall into the scope of 'concern trolling'.

lurk101
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Re: Does Raspberry PI 4 have problems in 2020?

Mon Jul 27, 2020 4:41 pm

Don't respond to trolls...
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