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alexeames
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Re: Fake Raspberry Pi

Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:47 am

lostintime wrote:I find it unacceptable that the Raspberry Pi Foundation has yet to formally acknowledge that the Raspberry Pi has any problems whatsoever, meaning it's quite easy for people to purchase a Pi while being completely oblivious to the fact that it has a known issue in a critical area which will affect the majority of its users in some way and which may never be fixed. It will be interesting to see what changes are made to the Raspberry Pi's hardware in the future and how they are justified by the Foundation when this situation is considered.
You missed out all the as yet unknown issues in your hyperbolic* concern troll.


*I so wanted to deliberately misspell that word. :lol:
Alex Eames RasPi.TV, RasP.iO

jamesh
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Re: Fake Raspberry Pi

Fri Aug 24, 2012 11:06 am

Stunning. After a very specific warning, the poster has continued to rant away. Banned.
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Re: Fake Raspberry Pi

Fri Aug 24, 2012 11:23 am

For those people reading some of the comments above, giving rise to concerns, please read this...

The Foundation are fully aware of USB problems (and HAVE acknowledged them) and are working hard to fix them. We have access to code and documentation not available to the general public, which has already resulting in major improvements to the USB software. Many people won't even see the issues even before the fixes, but the current state means problems are now much rarer.

The Foundation were NOT aware of these problems prior to releasing the board. Of course, it was tested, but there are limits to how much testing a non-profit charity is able to do. This is why the board was released as a 'beta', using the people who bought it as testers, finding faults, and giving the time for the FOundation and others to fix any issues prior to a full blown education release later this year.

If HW problems come to light, then future board revisions will include them. For example, the polyfuse issues, and a minor issue with the LAN controller power. Neither of these issues mean the current board is bad (in fact, its pretty good for a first revision!), it just means any future revisions will be even better. This is common practice in many in industries - incremental improvements are made to product during its lifecycle.
Principal Software Engineer at Raspberry Pi (Trading) Ltd.
Contrary to popular belief, humorous signatures are allowed.
I've been saying "Mucho" to my Spanish friend a lot more lately. It means a lot to him.

ejsolutions
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Re: Fake Raspberry Pi

Fri Aug 24, 2012 12:21 pm

Off-topic compared to original post but to respond directly to:
jamesh wrote:...If HW problems come to light, then future board revisions will include them...
etc.
Having tried 5 PSUs and 6 powered hubs, from feeBay - with very limited funds to purchase more - I'm sure you can appreciate the frustration. Yes, with the benefit of hindsight, I'd been as well to have just bought single, considerably more expensive, "approved" PSU and hub. :-(
From my perspective, the important issue is whether a cost effective retro-fitting hardware pack can/will be made available to 'upgrade' a model B. This might include polyfuses, capacitor(s) (,approved micro-USB power lead?) and detailed instructions on which track(s) to cut or holes to drill. This way, us early adopters can make better use of these beta boards.

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Jim JKla
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Re: Fake Raspberry Pi

Fri Aug 24, 2012 12:23 pm

lostintime wrote:Do you think these sort of threats do?
With luck you ignore them and end up barred.

I can wait :D
Noob is not derogatory the noob is just the lower end of the noob--geek spectrum being a noob is just your first step towards being an uber-geek ;)

If you find a solution please post it in the wiki the forum dies too quick

pygmy_giant
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Re: Fake Raspberry Pi

Fri Aug 24, 2012 1:18 pm

I have only ever bought low cost (Chinese) periferals and have had none of the problems complained about.

Back to the subject of this post - bring on the 'fakes' I say - more choice.

'Intelectual Property' is as much a western cultural curiosity as it is a moral principle - I can equally well accept the philosophy that we are all standing on the sholders of prior innovation and that others are equally entitled to do what I can.

Its easier to 're-invent' a pi than it is to reverse engineer and replicate one - we are not talking about fall-apart handbags with Louis Vouton stitched on them.

Personally, I'd rather stick with a beta board supported by a growing community with known problems that are being fixed than chance my arm with another unknown board.

ejsolutions
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Re: Fake Raspberry Pi

Fri Aug 24, 2012 1:31 pm

pygmy_giant wrote:Personally, I'd rather stick with a beta board supported by a growing community with known problems that are being fixed than chance my arm with another unknown board.
I can't argue there. :)

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Jim JKla
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Re: Fake Raspberry Pi

Fri Aug 24, 2012 1:36 pm

I agree but I don't think that means we should stop parallel development. ;)
Noob is not derogatory the noob is just the lower end of the noob--geek spectrum being a noob is just your first step towards being an uber-geek ;)

If you find a solution please post it in the wiki the forum dies too quick

pygmy_giant
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Re: Fake Raspberry Pi

Fri Aug 24, 2012 1:46 pm

yes - and I look forward to buying the improved next release of the Pi for a scandelously small amount of money and being able to proudly say that I also have one of the original beta boards!

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Jim JKla
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Re: Fake Raspberry Pi

Fri Aug 24, 2012 1:51 pm

I would also like to say I had one of the first "A" boards. ;)
Noob is not derogatory the noob is just the lower end of the noob--geek spectrum being a noob is just your first step towards being an uber-geek ;)

If you find a solution please post it in the wiki the forum dies too quick

gritz
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Re: Fake Raspberry Pi

Fri Aug 24, 2012 4:11 pm

jamesh wrote:
lostintime wrote:
"Heavily tested"? Yet you allegedly missed the glaring problems with the USB subsystem...
Yes, we know there is a USB problem, we didn't when it was released - but then as be said many times before, this beta was released with the expectation that problems like this would be found by the community and then fixed - did you miss that memo? If you keep up with this unnecessary unpleasantness I will a) start deleting the posts, b) Ban you.

These sorts of comments add NOTHING to the discussion, please please refrain from posting them.
As far as I'm aware there has NEVER been any mention of the Pi being beta hardware. It as always been explicitly referred to as a "development" board, which implies something quite different.

Liz gave this reply to a question on the site blog on July 16th this year:
Sorry; I don’t understand. We’re not in beta. Haven’t been since January.
http://www.raspberrypi.org/archives/1588

thradtke
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Re: Fake Raspberry Pi

Fri Aug 24, 2012 4:19 pm

jamesh wrote:This is common practice in many in industries - incremental improvements are made to product during its lifecycle.
I've rarely seen this with hardware I usually use. Instead of fixing issues, a new model has to get out introducing new bugs. This is so common with cell phones, calculators, mainboards, cameras etc. ... :( Maybe just a personal view not supported by statistics, but this is how I see it.

The foundation might/should do it better.
Rocket Scientist.

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liz
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Re: Fake Raspberry Pi

Fri Aug 24, 2012 4:26 pm

There's beta and beta. What I was referring to as beta hardware in the post someone mentions above is the beta boards which we made a small batch of at the end of last year. The production Raspberry Pis, as most everybody here is aware :roll: were intended as a development board; NOT the final education release.

I'm closing this thread as it's become unnecessarily belligerent, and we now appear to be arguing semantics, which never ends well. Disappointed about the troll, too; we've had a blessed month or so where nobody's needed plonking, but the last couple of days have been a bit of a doozy. Must be something in the phase of the moon. ;)
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