chipace
Posts: 122
Joined: Sat Jun 29, 2019 2:56 am
Location: brown paper bag in a septic tank

Re: Pi4 Cooling

Fri Aug 02, 2019 5:21 am

Ultrabit wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 6:04 pm
I thought I'd share my experience with colling my Pi4 B+. Granted I've not done stress tests etc but still I thought someone might find it of use. I'm using the metal case in the photo below.

Case lid ON, no heatsink at idle 69 degrees
Case lid OFF, no heatsink at idle 61 degrees

Adafruit 15x15x15mm heatsink case lid OFF at idle 61 degrees (ie. makes no difference at all). Heatsink noted to have got very hot.

28x28x18mm heatsink from Ebay/RS case lid OFF at idle 54 degrees
28x28x18mm heatsink from Ebay/RS case lid ON at idle 62 degrees (a reduction of 7 degrees in total).
You need to run cpuburn-a53 to really test your setups. Also you probably want to overclock by 10% without any over-voltage (I have found my RPi4 to be stable with 15% overclock with no overvoltage). The goal is to not thermal throttle for as long as possible on maximum load (bonus points for doing it at the lowest cost and lowest impact to your workspace... i.e. noise, access to ports and gpio header).

With my Adafruit heatsink and no case I can last 1 minute on maximum load before I thermal throttle, and that is more than enough for me as I just want my apps to load as fast as possible. I sometimes will do Gimp image manipulation but it usually completes in less than 10 seconds.

I suspect that with no case, no heatsink and no overclock that it could last for 1 minute at maximum load before thermal throttling... and that is perfectly fine for the average user. For me, the $2 heatsink and $2 gpio extender is worth the 15% overclock.
Just my opinion.

tdimike
Posts: 7
Joined: Sat Jul 06, 2019 1:06 pm
Location: Wisconsin

Re: Pi4 Cooling

Fri Aug 02, 2019 10:00 pm

I'm seeing 17.4 degrees ambient currently and have just run cpu burn with the following guide :

https://core-electronics.com.au/tutoria ... ry-pi.html Would it be correct to assume the A53 burn is what you're referring to?

Here are current temperature results :

Code: Select all

while true; do vcgencmd measure_clock arm; vcgencmd measure_temp; sleep 10; done& ./cpuburn-a53                                       
[2] 6906                                                                                                                              
frequency(48)=600169920                                                                                                               
temp=35.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500398464                                                                                                              
temp=38.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500345728                                                                                                              
temp=43.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500398464                                                                                                              
temp=43.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500345728                                                                                                              
temp=44.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500398464                                                                                                              
temp=44.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500345728                                                                                                              
temp=45.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500345728                                                                                                              
temp=44.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500345728                                                                                                              
temp=46.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500345728                                                                                                              
temp=46.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500345728                                                                                                              
temp=45.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500398464                                                                                                              
temp=45.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500345728                                                                                                              
temp=47.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500345728                                                                                                              
temp=46.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500345728                                                                                                              
temp=46.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500398464                                                                                                              
temp=46.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500345728                                                                                                              
temp=45.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500345728                                                                                                              
temp=46.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500345728                                                                                                              
temp=46.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500345728                                                                                                              
temp=46.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500345728                                                                                                              
temp=46.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500398464                                                                                                              
temp=46.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500398464                                                                                                              
temp=47.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500345728                                                                                                              
temp=46.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500345728                                                                                                              
temp=48.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500398464                                                                                                              
temp=47.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500345728                                                                                                              
temp=47.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500398464                                                                                                              
temp=47.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500398464                                                                                                              
temp=47.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500398464                                                                                                              
temp=47.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500345728                                                                                                              
temp=46.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500398464                                                                                                              
temp=46.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500345728                                                                                                              
temp=47.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500398464                                                                                                              
temp=46.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500345728                                                                                                              
temp=48.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500398464                                                                                                              
temp=47.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500345728                                                                                                              
temp=47.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500345728                                                                                                              
temp=48.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500398464                                                                                                              
temp=47.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500398464                                                                                                              
temp=47.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500345728                                                                                                              
temp=47.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500345728                                                                                                              
temp=47.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500398464                                                                                                              
temp=48.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500345728                                                                                                              
temp=46.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500398464                                                                                                              
temp=47.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500345728                                                                                                              
temp=46.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500398464                                                                                                              
temp=46.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500345728                                                                                                              
temp=48.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500345728                                                                                                              
temp=47.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500398464                                                                                                              
temp=47.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500345728                                                                                                              
temp=47.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500398464                                                                                                              
temp=47.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500345728                                                                                                              
temp=47.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500345728                                                                                                              
temp=47.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500398464                                                                                                              
temp=47.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500345728                                                                                                              
temp=46.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500345728                                                                                                              
temp=46.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500345728                                                                                                              
temp=46.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500398464                                                                                                              
temp=46.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500345728                                                                                                              
temp=47.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500345728                                                                                                              
temp=46.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500398464                                                                                                              
temp=46.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500345728                                                                                                              
temp=46.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500345728                                                                                                              
temp=46.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500345728                                                                                                              
temp=47.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500345728                                                                                                              
temp=46.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500345728                                                                                                              
temp=46.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500345728                                                                                                              
temp=47.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500398464                                                                                                              
temp=47.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500345728                                                                                                              
temp=47.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500345728                                                                                                              
temp=47.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500398464                                                                                                              
temp=46.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500345728                                                                                                              
temp=45.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500398464                                                                                                              
temp=46.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500345728                                                                                                              
temp=46.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500398464                                                                                                              
temp=47.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500398464                                                                                                              
temp=47.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500398464                                                                                                              
temp=46.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500345728                                                                                                              
temp=47.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500345728                                                                                                              
temp=47.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500345728                                                                                                              
temp=46.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500398464                                                                                                              
temp=48.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500398464                                                                                                              
temp=46.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500398464                                                                                                              
temp=46.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500398464                                                                                                              
temp=47.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500345728                                                                                                              
temp=46.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500345728                                                                                                              
temp=46.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500345728                                                                                                              
temp=47.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500345728                                                                                                              
temp=47.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500345728                                                                                                              
temp=46.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500398464                                                                                                              
temp=47.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500398464                                                                                                              
temp=47.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500345728                                                                                                              
temp=46.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500345728                                                                                                              
temp=47.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500345728                                                                                                              
temp=47.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500345728                                                                                                              
temp=46.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500398464                                                                                                              
temp=47.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500398464                                                                                                              
temp=46.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500345728                                                                                                              
temp=46.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500398464                                                                                                              
temp=47.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500398464                                                                                                              
temp=46.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500398464                                                                                                              
temp=46.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500345728                                                                                                              
temp=47.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500398464                                                                                                              
temp=47.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500398464                                                                                                              
temp=47.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500345728                                                                                                              
temp=46.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500345728                                                                                                              
temp=47.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500398464                                                                                                              
temp=45.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500345728                                                                                                              
temp=46.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500398464                                                                                                              
temp=47.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500345728                                                                                                              
temp=45.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500345728                                                                                                              
temp=46.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500345728                                                                                                              
temp=46.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500345728                                                                                                              
temp=46.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500345728                                                                                                              
temp=46.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500345728                                                                                                              
temp=46.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500398464                                                                                                              
temp=46.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500398464                                                                                                              
temp=46.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500398464                                                                                                              
temp=45.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500345728                                                                                                              
temp=46.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500345728                                                                                                              
temp=46.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500398464                                                                                                              
temp=47.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500345728                                                                                                              
temp=46.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500398464                                                                                                              
temp=46.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500398464                                                                                                              
temp=47.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500345728                                                                                                              
temp=46.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500398464                                                                                                              
temp=46.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500345728                                                                                                              
temp=47.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500345728                                                                                                              
temp=46.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500398464                                                                                                              
temp=46.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500398464                                                                                                              
temp=46.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500345728                                                                                                              
temp=47.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500345728                                                                                                              
temp=46.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500345728                                                                                                              
temp=46.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500398464                                                                                                              
temp=46.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500345728                                                                                                              
temp=48.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500345728                                                                                                              
temp=46.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500398464                                                                                                              
temp=46.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500398464                                                                                                              
temp=46.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500345728                                                                                                              
temp=46.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500398464                                                                                                              
temp=46.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500398464                                                                                                              
temp=47.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500345728                                                                                                              
temp=47.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500345728                                                                                                              
temp=47.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500398464                                                                                                              
temp=47.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500345728                                                                                                              
temp=47.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500345728                                                                                                              
temp=47.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500345728                                                                                                              
temp=47.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500398464                                                                                                              
temp=46.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500398464                                                                                                              
temp=46.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500345728                                                                                                              
temp=47.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500345728                                                                                                              
temp=47.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500398464                                                                                                              
temp=46.0'C                                                                                                                           
frequency(48)=1500345728                                                                                                              
temp=47.0'C                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                              

natc
Posts: 1
Joined: Fri Aug 02, 2019 10:08 pm

Re: Pi4 Cooling

Fri Aug 02, 2019 10:30 pm

The parent post intrigues me. Has the PWM frequency changed between the pi3 and pi4? I just got my pi4 and was setting up my fan. I'm now running buster(pi4) vs. stretch(pi3) maybe that has something to do with it but assumed GPIO was same. Add a capacitor?

A while back I wrote a little daemon that checks CPU temp every second and PWM's a PI-FAN between MIN (always on slow, dead quiet) and MAX (good airflow but audible whine). Worked great on pi3 when it got busy. I can't get PWM to work at all on pi4? Perhaps it's deb 10/buster, I don't get any perm errors, just not expected output on GPIO pin. It's always 'ground'.

I'm using a $0.10 200ma N-channel jfet to PWM drive the fan off a GPIO pin, + on fan nailed to 5V rail.

Am I missing something obvious? I tried 2 different GPIO capable pins. As root and myself.

Cheers!

Lee

chipace
Posts: 122
Joined: Sat Jun 29, 2019 2:56 am
Location: brown paper bag in a septic tank

Re: Pi4 Cooling

Sat Aug 03, 2019 12:08 am

tdimike wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 10:00 pm
I'm seeing 17.4 degrees ambient currently and have just run cpu burn with the following guide :

https://core-electronics.com.au/tutoria ... ry-pi.html Would it be correct to assume the A53 burn is what you're referring to?
Yes... I am running the same script. At stock clock setting of 1.5GHz I am not seeing thermal throttling with my Adafruit heatsink. It's only when I allowed overclocking to 1.65GHz did I thermal throttle after 1 minute.

tdimike
Posts: 7
Joined: Sat Jul 06, 2019 1:06 pm
Location: Wisconsin

Re: Pi4 Cooling

Sat Aug 03, 2019 11:47 pm

chipace wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 12:08 am
tdimike wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 10:00 pm
I'm seeing 17.4 degrees ambient currently and have just run cpu burn with the following guide :

https://core-electronics.com.au/tutoria ... ry-pi.html Would it be correct to assume the A53 burn is what you're referring to?
Yes... I am running the same script. At stock clock setting of 1.5GHz I am not seeing thermal throttling with my Adafruit heatsink. It's only when I allowed overclocking to 1.65GHz did I thermal throttle after 1 minute.
As suggested I ran the burn test again, I ran it with an overclock and a touch of overvoltage (1) at 1750 clock speed and got a peak temperature of 51 degrees. I'm really happy with the cooling capability of this setup and it makes minimal noise also.

Code: Select all

root@raspberrypi:~# while true; do vcgencmd measure_clock arm; vcgencmd measure_temp; sleep 10; done& ./cpuburn-a53
[1] 5926
frequency(48)=700207040
temp=29.0'C
frequency(48)=1750412160
temp=40.0'C
frequency(48)=1750412160
temp=41.0'C
frequency(48)=1750464896
temp=43.0'C
frequency(48)=1750464896
temp=46.0'C
frequency(48)=1750412160
temp=46.0'C
frequency(48)=1750464896
temp=46.0'C
frequency(48)=1750412160
temp=47.0'C
frequency(48)=1750412160
temp=48.0'C
frequency(48)=1750412160
temp=48.0'C
frequency(48)=1750412160
temp=48.0'C
frequency(48)=1750412160
temp=48.0'C
frequency(48)=1750464896
temp=48.0'C
frequency(48)=1750464896
temp=49.0'C
frequency(48)=1750464896
temp=49.0'C
frequency(48)=1750464896
temp=49.0'C
frequency(48)=1750412160
temp=49.0'C
frequency(48)=1750412160
temp=49.0'C
frequency(48)=1750412160
temp=50.0'C
frequency(48)=1750464896
temp=49.0'C
frequency(48)=1750412160
temp=50.0'C
frequency(48)=1750412160
temp=49.0'C
frequency(48)=1750412160
temp=49.0'C
frequency(48)=1750412160
temp=50.0'C
frequency(48)=1750464896
temp=49.0'C
frequency(48)=1750464896
temp=49.0'C
frequency(48)=1750412160
temp=49.0'C
frequency(48)=1750412160
temp=49.0'C
frequency(48)=1750412160
temp=50.0'C
frequency(48)=1750464896
temp=48.0'C
frequency(48)=1750464896
temp=48.0'C
frequency(48)=1750412160
temp=50.0'C
frequency(48)=1750412160
temp=48.0'C
frequency(48)=1750412160
temp=49.0'C
frequency(48)=1750412160
temp=50.0'C
frequency(48)=1750412160
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frequency(48)=1750412160
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temp=50.0'C
frequency(48)=1750412160
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frequency(48)=1750412160
temp=49.0'C
frequency(48)=1750464896
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frequency(48)=1750464896
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frequency(48)=1750412160
temp=50.0'C
frequency(48)=1750464896
temp=50.0'C
frequency(48)=1750412160
temp=51.0'C
frequency(48)=1750412160
temp=50.0'C
frequency(48)=1750412160
temp=50.0'C
frequency(48)=1750412160
temp=49.0'C
frequency(48)=1750412160
temp=50.0'C
frequency(48)=1750412160
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frequency(48)=1750412160
temp=49.0'C
frequency(48)=1750412160
temp=51.0'C
frequency(48)=1750412160
temp=50.0'C
frequency(48)=1750412160
temp=51.0'C
frequency(48)=1750412160
temp=50.0'C
frequency(48)=1750412160
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frequency(48)=1750464896
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frequency(48)=1750412160
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frequency(48)=1750412160
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frequency(48)=1750412160
temp=49.0'C
frequency(48)=1750412160
temp=50.0'C
frequency(48)=1750412160
temp=50.0'C
frequency(48)=1750464896
temp=50.0'C
frequency(48)=1750464896
temp=50.0'C
frequency(48)=1750412160
temp=50.0'C
frequency(48)=1750412160
temp=50.0'C
frequency(48)=1750412160
temp=49.0'C
frequency(48)=1750464896
temp=49.0'C
frequency(48)=1750412160
temp=49.0'C
frequency(48)=1750412160
temp=50.0'C
frequency(48)=1750412160
temp=49.0'C
frequency(48)=1750412160
temp=50.0'C
frequency(48)=1750412160
temp=50.0'C
frequency(48)=1750412160
temp=50.0'C
frequency(48)=1750464896
temp=49.0'C
frequency(48)=1750464896
temp=50.0'C
frequency(48)=1750412160
temp=50.0'C
frequency(48)=1750464896
temp=49.0'C
frequency(48)=1750464896
temp=49.0'C
frequency(48)=1750412160
temp=48.0'C
frequency(48)=1750412160
temp=49.0'C
frequency(48)=1750412160
temp=49.0'C
frequency(48)=1750412160
temp=49.0'C
frequency(48)=1750464896
temp=49.0'C
frequency(48)=1750412160
temp=49.0'C
frequency(48)=1750464896
temp=49.0'C
frequency(48)=1750412160
temp=50.0'C
frequency(48)=1750412160
temp=50.0'C
frequency(48)=1750412160
temp=50.0'C
frequency(48)=1750464896
temp=51.0'C
frequency(48)=1750412160
temp=50.0'C
frequency(48)=1750412160
temp=50.0'C
frequency(48)=1750464896
temp=51.0'C
frequency(48)=1750464896
temp=50.0'C
frequency(48)=1750412160
temp=50.0'C
frequency(48)=1750464896
temp=49.0'C
frequency(48)=1750412160
temp=50.0'C
frequency(48)=1750464896
temp=50.0'C
frequency(48)=1750464896
temp=49.0'C
frequency(48)=1750412160
temp=50.0'C
frequency(48)=1750412160
temp=50.0'C
frequency(48)=1750412160
temp=49.0'C
frequency(48)=1750412160
temp=50.0'C
frequency(48)=1750412160
temp=50.0'C
frequency(48)=1750412160
temp=50.0'C
frequency(48)=1750412160
temp=50.0'C
frequency(48)=1750412160
temp=51.0'C
frequency(48)=1750412160
temp=51.0'C
frequency(48)=1750464896
temp=49.0'C
frequency(48)=1750464896
temp=51.0'C
frequency(48)=1750412160
temp=51.0'C
frequency(48)=1750464896
temp=51.0'C
frequency(48)=1750412160
temp=50.0'C
frequency(48)=1750412160
temp=51.0'C
frequency(48)=1750412160
temp=51.0'C
frequency(48)=1750412160
temp=50.0'C
frequency(48)=1750412160
temp=51.0'C
frequency(48)=1750412160
temp=51.0'C
frequency(48)=1750412160
temp=50.0'C
frequency(48)=1750412160
temp=51.0'C
frequency(48)=1750412160
temp=51.0'C
frequency(48)=1750412160
temp=50.0'C
frequency(48)=1750464896
temp=50.0'C
frequency(48)=1750464896
temp=50.0'C
frequency(48)=1750464896
temp=49.0'C
frequency(48)=1750412160
temp=50.0'C
frequency(48)=1750464896
temp=51.0'C
frequency(48)=1750412160
temp=50.0'C
frequency(48)=1750464896
temp=50.0'C
frequency(48)=1750412160
temp=49.0'C
frequency(48)=1750412160
temp=49.0'C
frequency(48)=1750412160
temp=51.0'C
frequency(48)=1750412160
temp=50.0'C
frequency(48)=1750412160
temp=50.0'C
frequency(48)=1750412160
temp=51.0'C
frequency(48)=1750412160
temp=49.0'C
frequency(48)=1750412160
temp=50.0'C
frequency(48)=1750464896
temp=50.0'C
frequency(48)=1750464896
temp=49.0'C
frequency(48)=1750412160
temp=50.0'C
frequency(48)=1750412160
temp=51.0'C
frequency(48)=1750464896
temp=51.0'C
frequency(48)=1750464896
temp=50.0'C
frequency(48)=1750412160
temp=50.0'C
frequency(48)=1750412160
temp=51.0'C
frequency(48)=1750412160
temp=50.0'C
frequency(48)=1750464896
temp=51.0'C
frequency(48)=1750412160
temp=50.0'C
frequency(48)=1750412160
temp=49.0'C
frequency(48)=1750464896
temp=51.0'C
frequency(48)=1750464896
temp=51.0'C
frequency(48)=1750464896
temp=50.0'C
frequency(48)=1750412160
temp=50.0'C
frequency(48)=1750412160
temp=51.0'C
frequency(48)=1750412160
temp=49.0'C
frequency(48)=1750412160
temp=51.0'C
frequency(48)=1750412160
temp=50.0'C
frequency(48)=1750412160
temp=50.0'C
frequency(48)=1750464896
temp=49.0'C
frequency(48)=1750412160
temp=50.0'C
frequency(48)=1750412160
temp=49.0'C
frequency(48)=1750464896
temp=49.0'C
frequency(48)=1750412160
temp=50.0'C
frequency(48)=1750412160
temp=50.0'C
frequency(48)=1750464896
temp=50.0'C
frequency(48)=1750412160
temp=51.0'C
frequency(48)=1750464896
temp=51.0'C
frequency(48)=1750412160
temp=51.0'C
frequency(48)=1750412160
temp=50.0'C
frequency(48)=1750464896
temp=50.0'C
frequency(48)=1750464896
temp=50.0'C
frequency(48)=1750464896
temp=50.0'C
frequency(48)=1750412160
temp=51.0'C
frequency(48)=1750412160
temp=50.0'C
frequency(48)=1750412160
temp=50.0'C
frequency(48)=1750412160
temp=49.0'C
frequency(48)=1750464896
temp=50.0'C
frequency(48)=1750412160
temp=51.0'C
frequency(48)=1750412160
temp=51.0'C
frequency(48)=1750412160
temp=51.0'C
frequency(48)=1750464896
temp=51.0'C
frequency(48)=1750464896
temp=51.0'C
frequency(48)=1750412160
temp=51.0'C
frequency(48)=1750412160
temp=52.0'C
frequency(48)=1750412160
temp=50.0'C
frequency(48)=1750464896
temp=50.0'C
frequency(48)=1750412160
temp=51.0'C
frequency(48)=1750464896
temp=50.0'C
frequency(48)=1750464896
temp=50.0'C
frequency(48)=1750412160
temp=50.0'C
frequency(48)=1750464896
temp=50.0'C
frequency(48)=1750464896
temp=51.0'C
frequency(48)=1750412160
temp=50.0'C
frequency(48)=1750412160
temp=51.0'C
frequency(48)=1750464896
temp=50.0'C
frequency(48)=1750412160
temp=50.0'C

User avatar
Randomp
Posts: 27
Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2013 8:05 pm

Re: Pi4 Cooling

Sun Aug 04, 2019 2:03 am

So I finally got my Flirc Kodi Edition case to test against my Wicked Aluminum/Pi Holder case from Barch Designs.

Room temp is about 80F or 26.6C. Tests were taken consecutively on two separate Pi4s in the same exact location. The tests were started at about the same time after booting up. The Flirc case is housing a Raspberry Pi 4 2GB while the Wicked Aluminum case is housing a Raspberry Pi 4 4GB version. This should not affect CPU temperatures, but I just want to be transparent about the variables.

Flirc Kodi Edition ($15.95) Temps:
Image

Code: Select all

temp=38.0'C
temp=48.0'C
temp=52.0'C
temp=54.0'C
temp=56.0'C
temp=58.0'C
temp=59.0'C
temp=60.0'C
Wicked Aluminum ($69.99) Temps:
Image

Code: Select all

temp=33.0'C
temp=40.0'C
temp=42.0'C
temp=44.0'C
temp=46.0'C
temp=49.0'C
temp=50.0'C
temp=51.0'C
A 9 or so degree difference in peak temperature. Of note, I did not use the included thermal paste that came with the Wicked Aluminum case. I used Arctic MX-4 that I had laying around. Flirc case is using the thermal pad that was included with it.
RPiB, RPi2B, RPi0, RPi3B, RPi3B+, RPi4B2Gb, RPi4B4Gb :D

jj_0
Posts: 113
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2012 7:07 am

Re: Pi4 Cooling

Sun Aug 04, 2019 10:14 am

Randomp wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 2:03 am
So I finally got my Flirc Kodi Edition case to test against my Wicked Aluminum/Pi Holder case from Barch Designs.

Room temp is about 80F or 26.6C. Tests were taken consecutively on two separate Pi4s in the same exact location. The tests were started at about the same time after booting up. The Flirc case is housing a Raspberry Pi 4 2GB while the Wicked Aluminum case is housing a Raspberry Pi 4 4GB version. This should not affect CPU temperatures, but I just want to be transparent about the variables.

Flirc Kodi Edition ($15.95) Temps:
Image

Code: Select all

temp=38.0'C
temp=48.0'C
temp=52.0'C
temp=54.0'C
temp=56.0'C
temp=58.0'C
temp=59.0'C
temp=60.0'C
Wicked Aluminum ($69.99) Temps:
Image

Code: Select all

temp=33.0'C
temp=40.0'C
temp=42.0'C
temp=44.0'C
temp=46.0'C
temp=49.0'C
temp=50.0'C
temp=51.0'C
A 9 or so degree difference in peak temperature. Of note, I did not use the included thermal paste that came with the Wicked Aluminum case. I used Arctic MX-4 that I had laying around. Flirc case is using the thermal pad that was included with it.
Interesting so taking the difference in starting temp into account the difference is 4'C. Hmmm... It's still a beautiful case, but I'm not sure if it's worth it ;)

Btw, I ordered this case which also cools more than only the CPU. I'll post some numbers when it arrives. Might take some time to arrive though...

takyon
Posts: 59
Joined: Wed Jul 24, 2019 6:05 am

Re: Pi4 Cooling

Sun Aug 04, 2019 1:23 pm

MisterEd wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 5:32 pm
Image
I didn't realize that the FLIRC case was going to beat open air (no case) so soundly. That's great. Guess I'll be overclocking it.

pfletch101
Posts: 629
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Location: Buffalo, NY, USA

Re: Pi4 Cooling

Sun Aug 04, 2019 2:55 pm

takyon wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 1:23 pm
MisterEd wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 5:32 pm
Image
I didn't realize that the FLIRC case was going to beat open air (no case) so soundly. That's great. Guess I'll be overclocking it.
I have now (finally!) received my Pi 4 and have it installed in a Flirc case, and my limited testing confirms what you have found. The one downside of the Flirc approach is that, in the steady state, the entire case gets very hot - probably only a few degrees cooler than the measured CPU temperature, so you have to be fairly careful about where it is sitting and need to make sure that no-one (including yourself) touches it if/when the Pi has been working hard for a while.

jamesh
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Re: Pi4 Cooling

Sun Aug 04, 2019 3:01 pm

We've found something similar, but you really need to be working it hard to get it too hot. Most of the testing described here is pathological - you'd never encounter it in the real world, so the FLIRC is generally fine. I prefer the fan route myself, but I use them open so don't bother with either.
Principal Software Engineer at Raspberry Pi (Trading) Ltd.
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I've been saying "Mucho" to my Spanish friend a lot more lately. It means a lot to him.

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Randomp
Posts: 27
Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2013 8:05 pm

Re: Pi4 Cooling

Mon Aug 05, 2019 4:10 am

jj_0 wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 10:14 am
Randomp wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 2:03 am
...
Interesting so taking the difference in starting temp into account the difference is 4'C. Hmmm... It's still a beautiful case, but I'm not sure if it's worth it ;)

Btw, I ordered this case which also cools more than only the CPU. I'll post some numbers when it arrives. Might take some time to arrive though...
I'm not sure why exactly the starting idle temp was lower, but ambient room temperature was identical in both tests. It might be that the thermal pad is acting as a bit of an insulator because it is quite thick... Considering that temps jumped 10 degrees immediately after the first reading on the Flirc and rose a lot more steadily with the Wicked aluminum seems to kinda confirm that I think. I'm going to try the test again when I have time in a few days.

The case you linked to is a Rpi 3B+ case and not for the 4. So it likely won't fit.
RPiB, RPi2B, RPi0, RPi3B, RPi3B+, RPi4B2Gb, RPi4B4Gb :D

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HawaiianPi
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Re: Pi4 Cooling

Mon Aug 05, 2019 5:16 am

Randomp wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 4:10 am
Considering that temps jumped 10 degrees immediately after the first reading on the Flirc and rose a lot more steadily with the Wicked aluminum seems to kinda confirm that I think.
What I think is that the point is to stay below throttling temperature, and the $15 Flirc does that (mine was $11.20 pre-order for the non-Kodi version), so that $70 case seems like a huge waste of money (to me, anyway).

Have you tested wireless performance on that expensive case? Cases that surround the Pi in metal seem to reduce WiFi and Bluetooth performance much more than the Flirc (which has plastic on the bottom and part of the side where the wireless antenna is located).
My mind is like a browser. 27 tabs are open, 9 aren't responding,
lots of pop-ups...and where is that annoying music coming from?

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Randomp
Posts: 27
Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2013 8:05 pm

Re: Pi4 Cooling

Mon Aug 05, 2019 5:56 am

HawaiianPi wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 5:16 am
Randomp wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 4:10 am
Considering that temps jumped 10 degrees immediately after the first reading on the Flirc and rose a lot more steadily with the Wicked aluminum seems to kinda confirm that I think.
What I think is that the point is to stay below throttling temperature, and the $15 Flirc does that (mine was $11.20 pre-order for the non-Kodi version), so that $70 case seems like a huge waste of money (to me, anyway).

Have you tested wireless performance on that expensive case? Cases that surround the Pi in metal seem to reduce WiFi and Bluetooth performance much more than the Flirc (which has plastic on the bottom and part of the side where the wireless antenna is located).
Heat isn't only bad because of throttling. Extended periods of heat can eventually lead to premature failure of chips. So even if it's below the throttling threshold, it can still be detrimental in the long term.

I don't have a use case for WiFi or Bluetooth in my setup. The only real reason I updated to the Pi 4 is because of USB 3 and gigabit Ethernet. It is mentioned in the Pi3 version of this case that WiFi and Bluetooth range will be slightly reduced and to look into adapters if that is important to you.

No one particularly needs a case like this. It's definitely a luxury item. I just decided to go with one because this pi runs pretty hot and I just wanted one.

For the average person, I definitely recommend the Flirc case. Especially the Kodi edition, it looks super sleek.
RPiB, RPi2B, RPi0, RPi3B, RPi3B+, RPi4B2Gb, RPi4B4Gb :D

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jahboater
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Location: West Dorset

Re: Pi4 Cooling

Mon Aug 05, 2019 5:58 am

Randomp wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 5:56 am
Heat isn't only bad because of throttling. Extended periods of heat can eventually lead to premature failure of chips. So even if it's below the throttling threshold, it can still be detrimental in the long term.
30 years instead of 35 years ?

User avatar
Randomp
Posts: 27
Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2013 8:05 pm

Re: Pi4 Cooling

Mon Aug 05, 2019 7:05 am

jahboater wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 5:58 am
Randomp wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 5:56 am
Heat isn't only bad because of throttling. Extended periods of heat can eventually lead to premature failure of chips. So even if it's below the throttling threshold, it can still be detrimental in the long term.
30 years instead of 35 years ?
:D I know it is highly unlikely and doesn't even apply all that well to my use case for my own Pis since I am likely to retire them early for the next model. Still a true fact though.
RPiB, RPi2B, RPi0, RPi3B, RPi3B+, RPi4B2Gb, RPi4B4Gb :D

jj_0
Posts: 113
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2012 7:07 am

Re: Pi4 Cooling

Mon Aug 05, 2019 7:14 am

Randomp wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 4:10 am

The case you linked to is a Rpi 3B+ case and not for the 4. So it likely won't fit.
Oops. I guess I was suffering from the heat as well when I ordered it. My Pi 3B+ will be very happy with its new case I hope.

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rpdom
Posts: 17572
Joined: Sun May 06, 2012 5:17 am
Location: Chelmsford, Essex, UK

Re: Pi4 Cooling

Mon Aug 05, 2019 7:24 am

Randomp wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 7:05 am
:D I know it is highly unlikely and doesn't even apply all that well to my use case for my own Pis since I am likely to retire them early for the next model. Still a true fact though.
I haven't manage to retire a Pi yet (apart from the two that died - a 1A and a Zero). Most of the rest are still in use ( I keep a few spare for projects) Including my first early 1B.

My Raspberrys will probably outlast me.
Unreadable squiggle

atez
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon Aug 05, 2019 4:21 pm

Re: Pi4 Cooling

Mon Aug 05, 2019 4:55 pm

I stumbled across a rather neat solution to the heat problem of my pi3B+. I understand the problems with the pi4 are even worse.
I had to replace a defective LED headlight and discovered there is a very small but powerfull blower attached to the end of the light.
It runs like mad on 12 Volt but is a mild but still not very quiet blower at 5V. To make it a whispering blower but still strong enough the voltage can be brought back to about 3,5 Volt by two 1N2003 diodes in series with the the blower. dril plenty of holes and connect to the 40 pin side connector. Try you local garage for a defective car led light. A real pythonian would build a regulator with a LM335 and a LM317 but for me this works fine.
TIP: dismantle the light and throw away the led part before testing the blower, there is very little you can do with these leds they get way too hot for sensible use. furthermore :THE LEDS ARE EXTREMELY BRIGHT AND WILL PERMANENTLY DAMAGE YOUR RETINA IN SECONDS.
Attachments
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dpawson
Posts: 129
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2011 5:05 pm
Contact: Website

Re: Pi4 Cooling

Mon Aug 05, 2019 6:37 pm

clicky wrote:
Sun Jul 14, 2019 6:33 pm
Fan SHIM our favourite pirates are selling makes temperature under control at all times. After installing it I haven't seen it going over 49ºC at any point. And - it is solderless installation - so no need to 'dedicate' PI to run with that particular shim.

Alternative (from my perspective) is what I've done for my son's Orange Pi - made a case with fan 1cm away from PCB constantly working extracting air. I suspect that (even being enclosed) it would keep temperature low enough...
Any suggestions how this might work with the sense hat please? Need to extend the gpio header?

dpawson
Posts: 129
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2011 5:05 pm
Contact: Website

Re: Pi4 Cooling, fan not powered from GPIO?

Tue Aug 06, 2019 2:51 pm

Fanshim looks pretty neat. Are the GPIO pins still usable 'above' the n pins used by the fan please?
A bit cockeyed, but still usable?

Is there a fan powered by a.n.other means than GPIO?

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exartemarte
Posts: 376
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2012 3:51 pm
Location: Middle England
Contact: Website

Re: Pi4 Cooling, fan not powered from GPIO?

Wed Aug 07, 2019 10:13 am

dpawson wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 2:51 pm
Fanshim looks pretty neat. Are the GPIO pins still usable 'above' the n pins used by the fan please?
A bit cockeyed, but still usable?
It depends on what you mean by "usable". They're certainly accessible - the shim is very thin and is not soldered. You could connect to the pins with a 40-way ribbon connector or with individual Dupont-style connectors. Some pins are used to control the fan, however, and are therefore not available for other purposes. I'm not sure which they are, but you might find that information on the supplier's website.
dpawson wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 2:51 pm
Is there a fan powered by a.n.other means than GPIO?
I haven't come across one, but there's nothing to stop you powering a fan from any appropriate power source. It would be permanently on, of course.

jbudd
Posts: 1466
Joined: Mon Dec 16, 2013 10:23 am

Re: Pi4 Cooling

Wed Aug 07, 2019 11:42 am

Is there a fan powered by a.n.other means than GPIO?
One of the many aluminium cases on Aliexpress shows fan wires connected to the POE header pins. Presumably two of these pins are connected to 5V and Ground. No idea which, or if you can really power a fan from them though.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000042331060.html
https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/H6004f7abcd4 ... b5f71u.jpg

dpawson
Posts: 129
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Contact: Website

Re: Pi4 Cooling, fan not powered from GPIO?

Wed Aug 07, 2019 11:47 am

exartemarte wrote:
Wed Aug 07, 2019 10:13 am
dpawson wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 2:51 pm
Fanshim looks pretty neat. Are the GPIO pins still usable 'above' the n pins used by the fan please?
A bit cockeyed, but still usable?
It depends on what you mean by "usable". They're certainly accessible - the shim is very thin and is not soldered. You could connect to the pins with a 40-way ribbon connector or with individual Dupont-style connectors. Some pins are used to control the fan, however, and are therefore not available for other purposes. I'm not sure which they are, but you might find that information on the supplier's website.
dpawson wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 2:51 pm
Is there a fan powered by a.n.other means than GPIO?
I haven't come across one, but there's nothing to stop you powering a fan from any appropriate power source. It would be permanently on, of course.
Thanks for that... I'm told that the fanshim Fan and Sense HAT won’t work together, because Fan SHIM uses one of the I2C pins for fan control.

Ah well.

dpawson
Posts: 129
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2011 5:05 pm
Contact: Website

Re: Pi4 Cooling

Wed Aug 07, 2019 11:51 am

jbudd wrote:
Wed Aug 07, 2019 11:42 am
Is there a fan powered by a.n.other means than GPIO?
One of the many aluminium cases on Aliexpress shows fan wires connected to the POE header pins. Presumably two of these pins are connected to 5V and Ground. No idea which, or if you can really power a fan from them though.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000042331060.html
https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/H6004f7abcd4 ... b5f71u.jpg
Looks neat - I've not come across it before. The GPIO is clear too! If it's a quiet fan that won't be an issue.
Ship to the UK too, unless I can find it in the UK.

Thank jbudd.

jbudd
Posts: 1466
Joined: Mon Dec 16, 2013 10:23 am

Re: Pi4 Cooling

Wed Aug 07, 2019 11:54 am

There other cases on Aliexpress which show the fan wires connected between 5V and 3.3V GPIO pins. I don't think that's a good idea.
I guess whoever produced the images just plugged them in at random.
Last edited by jbudd on Wed Aug 07, 2019 11:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

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