webbsmurfen
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Sat Jul 20, 2019 6:53 pm

aaronc wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 6:50 pm
Should we start a seperate thread on what OSes are currently out and supported by the Raspberry PI 4? There's surprisingly few, so I would love to have a space where those interested can provide help to those distributions.

Rasbian 4.2 (Buster): Works, obviously.
Fedora: Has stated that it's on their roadmap for Fedora 31 (October)
CentOS: CentOS 8 is probably coming within a month. I'm honestly still confused here. aarch64 will have a build on day one. Others?
Ubuntu Mate: Confirmed by Wimpy?

This is actually my first Pi because I've always seen them as crippled by slow networking and low RAM, but I would love to contribute to those builds, and/or whatever OSes you would prefer to see running on it.
Also Kali (debian based) is supported both 64 and 32 bit, Kali ARM 2019.2a However thats for pen-testers and IT-security ppl only

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kennyc
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Sat Jul 20, 2019 7:07 pm

webbsmurfen wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 6:45 pm
Well Cooling is a bit problematic. Do you guys have a suggestion on a case with good ventilation? I was a bit worried to se the case that comes with the desktop kit, its almost air tight when the lid is on

Image

Although it is technically not a fire hazard, I do not like it being very hot, and i dont like the idea to drill a couple of holes in the lid to keep the temp down. Also warm plastic smells bad :)
That's the case I have for mine and I just in the past hour received my fans/heatsinks. Going to plug one of the fans in and temporarily sit it on or between the processor and memory and see what difference it makes..I may cut a hole in the top cover and mount it there (something like this - https://www.jeffgeerling.com/blog/2019/ ... an-add-one) but am unsure of what my plan is till I see what happens.

:)
Last edited by kennyc on Sat Jul 20, 2019 7:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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kennyc
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Sat Jul 20, 2019 7:10 pm

webbsmurfen wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 6:53 pm
aaronc wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 6:50 pm
Should we start a seperate thread on what OSes are currently out and supported by the Raspberry PI 4? There's surprisingly few, so I would love to have a space where those interested can provide help to those distributions.

Rasbian 4.2 (Buster): Works, obviously.
Fedora: Has stated that it's on their roadmap for Fedora 31 (October)
CentOS: CentOS 8 is probably coming within a month. I'm honestly still confused here. aarch64 will have a build on day one. Others?
Ubuntu Mate: Confirmed by Wimpy?

This is actually my first Pi because I've always seen them as crippled by slow networking and low RAM, but I would love to contribute to those builds, and/or whatever OSes you would prefer to see running on it.
Also Kali (debian based) is supported both 64 and 32 bit, Kali ARM 2019.2a However thats for pen-testers and IT-security ppl only
I thought Ubuntu Mate would run on it so set up a Micro SD card yesterday only to find it wouldn't load. :( There may be a more manual way to install some of these, but my linux chops are not what they used to be. LOL! Of course part of jumping into this is to relearn what I once knew. :)
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logcabin
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Sat Jul 20, 2019 7:17 pm

kennyc wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 7:07 pm
webbsmurfen wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 6:45 pm
Well Cooling is a bit problematic. Do you guys have a suggestion on a case with good ventilation? I was a bit worried to se the case that comes with the desktop kit, its almost air tight when the lid is on

Image

Although it is technically not a fire hazard, I do not like it being very hot, and i dont like the idea to drill a couple of holes in the lid to keep the temp down. Also warm plastic smells bad :)
That's the case I have for mine and I just in the past hour received my fans/heatsinks. Going to plug one of the fans in and temporarily sit it on or between the processor and memory and see what difference it makes..I may cut a hole in the top cover and mount it there (something like this - https://www.jeffgeerling.com/blog/2019/ ... an-add-one) but am unsure of what my plan is till I see what happens.

:)
I use the HighPi case for the Pi 4. Seems to have decent ventilation, but just to be safe, I drilled a few holes in the top. Not really noticeable.

alphanumeric
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Sat Jul 20, 2019 7:25 pm

webbsmurfen wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 6:45 pm
Well Cooling is a bit problematic. Do you guys have a suggestion on a case with good ventilation? I was a bit worried to se the case that comes with the desktop kit, its almost air tight when the lid is on

Image

Although it is technically not a fire hazard, I do not like it being very hot, and i dont like the idea to drill a couple of holes in the lid to keep the temp down. Also warm plastic smells bad :)
Have a look at this one, https://shop.pimoroni.com/products/pibow-coupe-4 The Red one will likely look good with the other bits in that kit. I've been buying the black ones and the black heatsink.

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HawaiianPi
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Sat Jul 20, 2019 7:39 pm

webbsmurfen wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 6:45 pm
... and i dont like the idea to drill a couple of holes in the lid to keep the temp down.
Why not? DIY is at the very heart of the Raspberry Pi's success. Not saying the case should not have come from the factory with ventilation, but it is what it is, and you can either replace it or fix it. There are pics here on the forums from others who have added fans and vent holes.

Flirc has a new case for the Pi 4B that's available for pre-order. The aluminum alloy Flirc case has an internal post that makes contact with the SoC and the whole case acts as a huge heatsink to keep your Pi cool without the noise or additional power requirements of a fan.

I've been using the Flirc Gen2 case for years, and it works very well (and looks cool too). Most of my 3B & 3B+ models are in Flirc cases.

Can't wait to get my new 4B case (already pre-ordered it).
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alphanumeric
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Sat Jul 20, 2019 7:46 pm

I drilled my official Pi 3 case. I just taped some graph paper on top and drilled where the lines crossed. It made a nice grid pattern with all the holes lined up.

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kennyc
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Sat Jul 20, 2019 7:55 pm

HawaiianPi wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 7:39 pm
webbsmurfen wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 6:45 pm
... and i dont like the idea to drill a couple of holes in the lid to keep the temp down.
Why not? DIY is at the very heart of the Raspberry Pi's success. Not saying the case should not have come from the factory with ventilation, but it is what it is, and you can either replace it or fix it. There are pics here on the forums from others who have added fans and vent holes.

Flirc has a new case for the Pi 4B that's available for pre-order. The aluminum alloy Flirc case has an internal post that makes contact with the SoC and the whole case acts as a huge heatsink to keep your Pi cool without the noise or additional power requirements of a fan.

I've been using the Flirc Gen2 case for years, and it works very well (and looks cool too). Most of my 3B & 3B+ models are in Flirc cases.

Can't wait to get my new 4B case (already pre-ordered it).
That's Nice! I like how they integrate the heatsink into the case!

I plugged one of my fans in and just sat it on top of the processor...seems to have dropped the temp almost 10 degrees. Probably will work fine. Need to cut a hole in the case and mount it though....
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HawaiianPi
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Sat Jul 20, 2019 8:57 pm

kennyc wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 7:55 pm
That's Nice! I like how they integrate the heatsink into the case!
Here's a picture of the inside of the Flirc Gen2 (Pi3 version). You can see the internal post for SoC cooling.
Flirc_Gen2_3Bplus.jpg
Flirc_Gen2_3Bplus.jpg (25.46 KiB) Viewed 1933 times
kennyc wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 7:55 pm
I plugged one of my fans in and just sat it on top of the processor...seems to have dropped the temp almost 10 degrees. Probably will work fine. Need to cut a hole in the case and mount it though....
Pimoroni has the Fan Shim, which is a cool solution for adding a fan (pun intended). You'd still need to leave the lid off or add vent holes.
pimoroni_fan-shim.jpg
pimoroni_fan-shim.jpg (57.94 KiB) Viewed 1933 times
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webbsmurfen
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Sat Jul 20, 2019 9:29 pm

HawaiianPi wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 7:39 pm
webbsmurfen wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 6:45 pm
... and i dont like the idea to drill a couple of holes in the lid to keep the temp down.
Why not? DIY is at the very heart of the Raspberry Pi's success. Not saying the case should not have come from the factory with ventilation, but it is what it is, and you can either replace it or fix it. There are pics here on the forums from others who have added fans and vent holes.

Flirc has a new case for the Pi 4B that's available for pre-order. The aluminum alloy Flirc case has an internal post that makes contact with the SoC and the whole case acts as a huge heatsink to keep your Pi cool without the noise or additional power requirements of a fan.

I've been using the Flirc Gen2 case for years, and it works very well (and looks cool too). Most of my 3B & 3B+ models are in Flirc cases.

Can't wait to get my new 4B case (already pre-ordered it).
Well partly for doing a shitty drilling job last time (RPI 2B OC) Image

I think you just answered two of my questions in one post, thanks!

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kennyc
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Sat Jul 20, 2019 9:40 pm

webbsmurfen wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 9:29 pm
HawaiianPi wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 7:39 pm
webbsmurfen wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 6:45 pm
... and i dont like the idea to drill a couple of holes in the lid to keep the temp down.
Why not? DIY is at the very heart of the Raspberry Pi's success. Not saying the case should not have come from the factory with ventilation, but it is what it is, and you can either replace it or fix it. There are pics here on the forums from others who have added fans and vent holes.

Flirc has a new case for the Pi 4B that's available for pre-order. The aluminum alloy Flirc case has an internal post that makes contact with the SoC and the whole case acts as a huge heatsink to keep your Pi cool without the noise or additional power requirements of a fan.

I've been using the Flirc Gen2 case for years, and it works very well (and looks cool too). Most of my 3B & 3B+ models are in Flirc cases.

Can't wait to get my new 4B case (already pre-ordered it).
Well partly for doing a shitty drilling job last time (RPI 2B OC) Image

I think you just answered two of my questions in one post, thanks!
Looks fine to me....just like a Raspberry Pi Domino! 👍😁
Kenny A. Chaffin
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webbsmurfen
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Sat Jul 20, 2019 10:08 pm

jbeale wrote:
Sat Jun 29, 2019 5:32 pm
W. H. Heydt wrote:
Sat Jun 29, 2019 4:20 pm
jbeale wrote:
Sat Jun 29, 2019 3:22 pm
FWIW I have an Intel-based "Fitlet2" MiniPC made this way, it is small and draws about 10 watts which is even more than a Pi4.
Ummm...No. The Pi4B can draw up to 15W (3A*5v).
Maybe we are speaking of different things. I am looking at the 3.1A (15.3 W) official supply, combined with the claim that the Pi4 can provide a total of 1.2 A to external USB devices, meaning I believe it cannot use more than 1.9 A (under 10 W) all by itself. I am presuming that the power dissipated by external devices would not significantly add to the heat inside the Pi's case, at least if they connect through a USB cable. I agree my assumption might not hold for a small directly-connected USB memory device or other dongle which mostly dumps its heat through the USB connector shell.

Edit: this power benchmark says the Pi4 uses 3.4 watts at idle, and 7.6 watts under load.
https://medium.com/@ghalfacree/benchmar ... e5afbcd54b
So, Just to clarify things.. You can still use the old 5V 2,4A power supply, you just switch the cable from "USB-A -> micro-USB" to "USB-A - >USB-C"? For if its true that the USB-ports is capable of drawing 1,2 by itself then the raspberry itself only needs 1,9A, else it would be impossible for a 15W (3A*5v) adapter to power the PI. So if i use a low powered USB wireless mouse/keyboard combo and nothing more i would be fine

Edit (last time)
That would also mean that it could not draw the total wattage on each port (full effect) of 1st USB3 (900mA) and 1stUSB2 (500mA) at the same time without a powered hub
Last edited by webbsmurfen on Sat Jul 20, 2019 10:55 pm, edited 4 times in total.

alphanumeric
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Sat Jul 20, 2019 10:22 pm

webbsmurfen wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 10:08 pm
jbeale wrote:
Sat Jun 29, 2019 5:32 pm
W. H. Heydt wrote:
Sat Jun 29, 2019 4:20 pm

Ummm...No. The Pi4B can draw up to 15W (3A*5v).
Maybe we are speaking of different things. I am looking at the 3.1A (15.3 W) official supply, combined with the claim that the Pi4 can provide a total of 1.2 A to external USB devices, meaning I believe it cannot use more than 1.9 A (under 10 W) all by itself. I am presuming that the power dissipated by external devices would not significantly add to the heat inside the Pi's case, at least if they connect through a USB cable. I agree my assumption might not hold for a small directly-connected USB memory device or other dongle which mostly dumps its heat through the USB connector shell.

Edit: this power benchmark says the Pi4 uses 3.4 watts at idle, and 7.6 watts under load.
https://medium.com/@ghalfacree/benchmar ... e5afbcd54b
So, Just to clarify things.. You can still use the old 5V 2,4A power supply, you just switch the cable from "USB-A -> micro-USB" to "USB-A ->USB-C"?
I'm using the old supply with this adapter, https://shop.pimoroni.com/products/mic ... 38784595 No undervolt warnings or any issues I am aware of. The official USB C supply was out of stock when I ordered my Pi 4.

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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Sat Jul 20, 2019 10:59 pm

webbsmurfen wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 10:08 pm
So, Just to clarify things.. You can still use the old 5V 2,4A power supply, you just switch the cable from "USB-A -> micro-USB" to "USB-A ->USB-C"?
There was no "5V 2,4A power supply" from RPF (that sounds like a phone charger).

The official PSU was 5.1V/2.5A with a built-in micro USB cable. So the adapter you'd need for the official PSU is a micro-USB female to USB-C male, which are available from several companies (including the Raspberry Pi Foundation). I'm using the older 5.1V/2.5A official Raspberry Pi Universal Power Supply on my 4B with a Volutz micro-USB to USB-C adapter, and it works fine, even when running the OS from a USB 3.0 SSD.

Edit (last time)
That would also mean that it could not draw the total wattage on each port (full effect) of 1st USB3 (900mA) and 1st USB2 (500mA) at the same time without a powered hub
Yes, with a 2.5A PSU, and assuming you want all power available for the SoC, you would only have about 700mA available for all 4 USB ports combined. That should still be sufficient to run a standard keyboard, mouse and USB 3.0 SSD (which I am doing).
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Sat Jul 20, 2019 11:15 pm

HawaiianPi wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 10:59 pm
Yes, with a 2.5A PSU, and assuming you want all power available for the SoC, you would only have about 700mA available for all 4 USB ports combined. That should still be sufficient to run a standard keyboard, mouse and USB 3.0 SSD (which I am doing).
Yup. The same was true in an earlier version when I used an RPF 2A PSU from the Pi2B days to set up a Pi3B connected to a WD PiDrive...so not only external mass storage, but spinning rust. Worked just fine. It probably helped that the keyboard, mouse and monitor were through a KVM switch, though.

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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Sat Jul 20, 2019 11:27 pm

W. H. Heydt wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 11:15 pm
Yup. The same was true in an earlier version when I used an RPF 2A PSU from the Pi2B days
Even with the 2.5A PSU the Pi 3B was below the USB 2.0 power spec (1.2A/4 ports = 300mA per port). But there were no per-port limits, so you could usually get away with one power hungry USB device.
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webbsmurfen
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Sat Jul 20, 2019 11:34 pm

HawaiianPi wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 10:59 pm
webbsmurfen wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 10:08 pm
So, Just to clarify things.. You can still use the old 5V 2,4A power supply, you just switch the cable from "USB-A -> micro-USB" to "USB-A ->USB-C"?
There was no "5V 2,4A power supply" from RPF (that sounds like a phone charger).

The official PSU was 5.1V/2.5A with a built-in micro USB cable. So the adapter you'd need for the official PSU is a micro-USB female to USB-C male, which are available from several companies (including the Raspberry Pi Foundation). I'm using the older 5.1V/2.5A official Raspberry Pi Universal Power Supply on my 4B with a Volutz micro-USB to USB-C adapter, and it works fine, even when running the OS from a USB 3.0 SSD.

Edit (last time)
That would also mean that it could not draw the total wattage on each port (full effect) of 1st USB3 (900mA) and 1st USB2 (500mA) at the same time without a powered hub
Yes, with a 2.5A PSU, and assuming you want all power available for the SoC, you would only have about 700mA available for all 4 USB ports combined. That should still be sufficient to run a standard keyboard, mouse and USB 3.0 SSD (which I am doing).
No im not using a Official PSU, on the other hand its not a phone charger either (but could be used as one). I brought this one when i got my RPI3, and it has worked so far without any problems.

Thanks for clarifying things :)

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kennyc
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Sun Jul 21, 2019 12:13 am

Is it possible to take micro SD card from one Pi 4 and swap it into another?

My Pi 4 4Gb is due to arrive shortly (today they say...) and I'd like to just pull the sd card from my 1GB pi 4 and plug it in the 4GB pi 4....
and or vice versa for ease of testing stuff...

Does that work or am I going to run into trouble (because of the memory size difference)?
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trejan
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Sun Jul 21, 2019 12:16 am

kennyc wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 12:13 am
Is it possible to take micro SD card from one Pi 4 and swap it into another?
Yes. The same card should work in either RPI 4. The memory size doesn't matter.

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kennyc
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Sun Jul 21, 2019 12:28 am

trejan wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 12:16 am
kennyc wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 12:13 am
Is it possible to take micro SD card from one Pi 4 and swap it into another?
Yes. The same card should work in either RPI 4. The memory size doesn't matter.
Thank you! Much appreciated!
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Sun Jul 21, 2019 1:03 am

HawaiianPi wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 11:27 pm
W. H. Heydt wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 11:15 pm
Yup. The same was true in an earlier version when I used an RPF 2A PSU from the Pi2B days
Even with the 2.5A PSU the Pi 3B was below the USB 2.0 power spec (1.2A/4 ports = 300mA per port). But there were no per-port limits, so you could usually get away with one power hungry USB device.
It goes back to the original Model B. The spec was 700mA and there were 2 USB 2 ports. In the very early boards there was a 140mA polyfuse for each USB port. 1.2A for all USB ports? Such luxury!

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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Sun Jul 21, 2019 1:05 am

WOW!!! My Pi 4 4GB was just delivered and I swapped the sd Card from the 1GB into it and hooked it up and Man! Completely different experience!! The browser is responsive....as good as my main system... no slowness, page and image loading is snappy and I've get all my initial tags up as well as a couple of forum tabs here ...

COMPLETELY Different behavior and experience!

I'm being led to believe the 1GB model 4 is bad! I'm going to see if I get any 'Aw, Snap!' errors and if I don't see any by tomorrow when Micro Center opens I'll return it!

...maybe swap it for another one....

Wow!
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cpc464
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Sun Jul 21, 2019 9:46 am

Hi all

The Pi 4 is wonderful but I am not happy leaving a 70 degree C board alone in the house. Seriously. My blog (http://unixetc.co.uk) will remain in the Pi 2, running at about 41 C, rather than the Pi 4 (and costing 2 or 3 times as much to run, incidentally).

Looking for a big passive heat sink.

Jim
Unix engineer since 1989

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kennyc
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Sun Jul 21, 2019 10:06 am

cpc464 wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 9:46 am
Hi all

The Pi 4 is wonderful but I am not happy leaving a 70 degree C board alone in the house. Seriously. My blog (http://unixetc.co.uk) will remain in the Pi 2, running at about 41 C, rather than the Pi 4 (and costing 2 or 3 times as much to run, incidentally).

Looking for a big passive heat sink.

Jim
See Above. :)

https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/view ... 9#p1504359
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Roken
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Sun Jul 21, 2019 2:02 pm

HawaiianPi wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 8:57 pm
Pimoroni has the Fan Shim, which is a cool solution for adding a fan (pun intended). You'd still need to leave the lid off or add vent holes.
pimoroni_fan-shim.jpg
I literally just ordered one of these before I came to the forums. I use the stackable PI cases, so shouldn't need to make any mods there.

Even if I get 10 - 15C reduction I'll be happy. Current idling at 57C with no cooling at all.
Headless PI. OMG, someone cut it's head off. Oh, hang on. it didn't have one to start with.

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