Pi 4 firmware, software stability improvements

[cruster]

Dear Raspberry Pi Engineers. It would be lovely if my new Pi4 could play Youtube really really smoothly better than my old Pi3 used to be able to do (sort of)

I even took the time to design & 3D print a nice system around it.

[clicky]

Really nice. Thanks for posting pictures.

[jamesh]

Dear Raspberry Pi Engineers. It would be lovely if my new Pi4 could play Youtube really really smoothly better than my old Pi3 used to be able to do (sort of)

I even took the time to design & 3D print a nice system around it.

Is there any reason you think we are not looking this stuff? No need to ask, we do know what is needed. We have plenty of stuff to fix, as happens with all new releases, but this is close if not at the top of the list.

[cruster]

James. I don't doubt it. You guys have done miracles with this little SBC. Just itching & excited to see it unleashed & in full flow

[ejolson]

Nice pictures. What kind of power supply are you using?

[cruster]

Just a generic 5v 3A I had spare.

[haaldemir]

Hello everyone,

with latest update youtube now good 1080p. but it seems horizontal lines middle of the screen when fast moving. It can be remove in future updates?

[Jimblob64]

Can confirm: using nothing but apt-get update & upgrade, the Pi 4 will now do 1080p60 YouTube videos in Chromium full screen- there's some occasional flicker or horizontal tearing, but it's otherwise smooth. (Monitor resolution was also set to 1080p60 at the time.)

Looking good so far.

[jamesh]

Hello everyone,

with latest update youtube now good 1080p. but it seems horizontal lines middle of the screen when fast moving. It can be remove in future updates?

This is called tearing, and without making X double buffer (!) will be difficult to mitigate against. And changes to X are not generally something we do.

[hardwaremack-orginal]

if double buffer is what you need to make it not look bad... then why wouldn't you do it?

[hardwaremack-orginal]

1080p in 4K is still a slide show.

[6by9]

if double buffer is what you need to make it not look bad... then why wouldn't you do it?

It's not the way X does things, therefore is almost a complete rewrite of the whole windowing system.
Wayland and Weston were attempts to do this, but when they got there they also found out just how hard it was.

[dickon]

1080p in 4K is still a slide show.

*p30 (or worse *p24) is a slide show. That's just the way it is.

Enable the p60 mode in config.txt and be done with it.

[jamesh]

p30 isn't a slide show. It's perfectly fine for most sane people.

Standard frame rate for cinema is 24....

Not to say that >30 isn't better. It is. But 30 is perfectly usable. And saves a LOT of power.

[dickon]

My eyes are a tad weird. To me, less than 50Hz is not smooth; I can look at a source and more or less immediately tell you if it's 24/25, 30, 50, or 60.

And yes, I don't much like cinema for this reason. Ever since TVs have gained the ability to interpolate, I have much preferred watching films at home.

[Musketeer]

+ lot of bandwidth! I use 30 fps too for YT on my 10 Mbps net!

[HiassofT]

My eyes are a tad weird. To me, less than 50Hz is not smooth; I can look at a source and more or less immediately tell you if it's 24/25, 30, 50, or 60.

It's not only your eyes. (almost) all people perceive it that way.

For desktop use a simple test is to scroll a document/webpage/... At 60Hz (which is the native rate of most monitors) most people will describe it as smooth, whereas at 30 or 24Hz it becomes a stutter/jump-fest.

so long,

Hias

[aberts10]

Hello everyone,

with latest update youtube now good 1080p. but it seems horizontal lines middle of the screen when fast moving. It can be remove in future updates?

This is called tearing, and without making X double buffer (!) will be difficult to mitigate against. And changes to X are not generally something we do.

Even wayland on the pi has screen tearing however. Weston will go nuts with screen tearing. I wasn't able to test plasma 5.16 wayland (not on raspbian) because it had all kinds of artifacts. I really hope the graphics drivers get sorted out in a few months, as at the moment they have quite a few issues. Tearing even with compositing is really horrible on the pi 4.

[riccetto80]

Hello everyone,

with latest update youtube now good 1080p. but it seems horizontal lines middle of the screen when fast moving. It can be remove in future updates?

This is called tearing, and without making X double buffer (!) will be difficult to mitigate against. And changes to X are not generally something we do.

Hello!

sadly i experience tearing in any youtube video, windowed or full screen and is driving me insane.

but i dont understand:
Usually tearing is not present when refresh rate is the same or less then the monitor refresh!

for example my tv/monitor is set up at 60hz, so 60 frame for second, the youtube video is less (24/30 ps, i dont remember), or at max, the 60 fps (so the same at the monitors refresh), so why happen the tearing?

also, i cannot find option to force or turn on, v-sync, is not possible in raspbian last version?

and why in vlc the tearing is not happen? while in chromium with youtube, happen so badly?

im a confused noob, lol.

[kenkrsme]

Hello everyone,

with latest update youtube now good 1080p. but it seems horizontal lines middle of the screen when fast moving. It can be remove in future updates?

This is called tearing, and without making X double buffer (!) will be difficult to mitigate against. And changes to X are not generally something we do.

Hello!

sadly i experience tearing in any youtube video, windowed or full screen and is driving me insane.

but i dont understand:
Usually tearing is not present when refresh rate is the same or less then the monitor refresh!

for example my tv/monitor is set up at 60hz, so 60 frame for second, the youtube video is less (24/30 ps, i dont remember), or at max, the 60 fps (so the same at the monitors refresh), so why happen the tearing?

also, i cannot find option to force or turn on, v-sync, is not possible in raspbian last version?

and why in vlc the tearing is not happen? while in chromium with youtube, happen so badly?

im a confused noob, lol.

x server/chromium doesnt double buffer. vlc does double buffer.

[riccetto80]

x server/chromium doesnt double buffer. vlc does double buffer.

thanks for reply!

Fireofx or other browser have double buffer?

there is a way to install something, a utility (compton? i dont know if is applicable on raspbian, im a total noob i try to learn now, after i buy a pi 4, just searched google) to fix the tearing issue on the raspberry pi 4?

really drive me insane, you cannot look youtube content and keep have horizontal line on the video.

[bjtheone]

there is a way to install something, a utility (compton? i dont know if is applicable on raspbian, im a total noob i try to learn now, after i buy a pi 4, just searched google) to fix the tearing issue on the raspberry pi 4?

really drive me insane, you cannot look youtube content and keep have horizontal line on the video.

It may also depend on your specific monitor. Either than or I am totally insensitive to the issue. A Pi 3B+ certainly had artifacts and had issues playing YouTube, for me on the same monitor. A fully up to date 4B 4GB model does not have screen tearing issues for me when viewing YouTube using the standard Chromium (no tweaks and tuning) that is included in Raspbian Buster. This is on a fairly generic HP monitor (HP 22fw 21.5" FHD IPSGaming Monitor with AMD FreeSync Technology, 1920 x 1080, 75Hz, 5ms). VLC also plays movies with any issues.

[kenkrsme]

x server/chromium doesnt double buffer. vlc does double buffer.

thanks for reply!

Fireofx or other browser have double buffer?

there is a way to install something, a utility (compton? i dont know if is applicable on raspbian, im a total noob i try to learn now, after i buy a pi 4, just searched google) to fix the tearing issue on the raspberry pi 4?

really drive me insane, you cannot look youtube content and keep have horizontal line on the video.

use kodi or open youtube links in vlc. i dont think any browser will fix the issue.

[aberts10]

there is a way to install something, a utility (compton? i dont know if is applicable on raspbian, im a total noob i try to learn now, after i buy a pi 4, just searched google) to fix the tearing issue on the raspberry pi 4?

really drive me insane, you cannot look youtube content and keep have horizontal line on the video.

It may also depend on your specific monitor. Either than or I am totally insensitive to the issue. A Pi 3B+ certainly had artifacts and had issues playing YouTube, for me on the same monitor. A fully up to date 4B 4GB model does not have screen tearing issues for me when viewing YouTube using the standard Chromium (no tweaks and tuning) that is included in Raspbian Buster. This is on a fairly generic HP monitor (HP 22fw 21.5" FHD IPSGaming Monitor with AMD FreeSync Technology, 1920 x 1080, 75Hz, 5ms). VLC also plays movies with any issues.

I've tried it on three different monitors from different manufacturers. All three had tearing. A HP, Dell, and Samsung 1080p monitor. The dell supports up to 144hz too. None of my computers get tearing connected up, so it's certainly the pi having issues. Perhaps your specific monitor doesn't have tearing issues, or you are truly insensitive to tearing.

[jamesh]

there is a way to install something, a utility (compton? i dont know if is applicable on raspbian, im a total noob i try to learn now, after i buy a pi 4, just searched google) to fix the tearing issue on the raspberry pi 4?

really drive me insane, you cannot look youtube content and keep have horizontal line on the video.

It may also depend on your specific monitor. Either than or I am totally insensitive to the issue. A Pi 3B+ certainly had artifacts and had issues playing YouTube, for me on the same monitor. A fully up to date 4B 4GB model does not have screen tearing issues for me when viewing YouTube using the standard Chromium (no tweaks and tuning) that is included in Raspbian Buster. This is on a fairly generic HP monitor (HP 22fw 21.5" FHD IPSGaming Monitor with AMD FreeSync Technology, 1920 x 1080, 75Hz, 5ms). VLC also plays movies with any issues.

I've tried it on three different monitors from different manufacturers. All three had tearing. A HP, Dell, and Samsung 1080p monitor. The dell supports up to 144hz too. None of my computers get tearing connected up, so it's certainly the pi having issues. Perhaps your specific monitor doesn't have tearing issues, or you are truly insensitive to tearing.

It's not the monitors. It's the software not being double buffered. Tearing occurs when the frame being viewed on the display is changed whilst on the display. Double buffering means changes are drawn on another frame, and that is switched on to the display at frame sync time, and the old frame is then used to draw on.