cruster
Posts: 119
Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2014 7:56 pm

Re: Pi 4 firmware, software stability improvements

Sun Jul 07, 2019 6:28 pm

Dear Raspberry Pi Engineers. It would be lovely if my new Pi4 could play Youtube really really smoothly better than my old Pi3 used to be able to do (sort of)

I even took the time to design & 3D print a nice system around it. :-)

Image
Image

User avatar
clicky
Posts: 413
Joined: Thu Oct 25, 2012 7:34 am

Re: Pi 4 firmware, software stability improvements

Sun Jul 07, 2019 7:16 pm

Really nice. Thanks for posting pictures. :)

jamesh
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Posts: 23931
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 7:41 pm

Re: Pi 4 firmware, software stability improvements

Sun Jul 07, 2019 7:17 pm

cruster wrote:
Sun Jul 07, 2019 6:28 pm
Dear Raspberry Pi Engineers. It would be lovely if my new Pi4 could play Youtube really really smoothly better than my old Pi3 used to be able to do (sort of)

I even took the time to design & 3D print a nice system around it. :-)

Image
Image
Is there any reason you think we are not looking this stuff? No need to ask, we do know what is needed. We have plenty of stuff to fix, as happens with all new releases, but this is close if not at the top of the list.
Principal Software Engineer at Raspberry Pi (Trading) Ltd.
Contrary to popular belief, humorous signatures are allowed. Here's an example...
“I think it’s wrong that only one company makes the game Monopoly.” – Steven Wright

cruster
Posts: 119
Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2014 7:56 pm

Re: Pi 4 firmware, software stability improvements

Sun Jul 07, 2019 7:27 pm

James. I don't doubt it. You guys have done miracles with this little SBC. Just itching & excited to see it unleashed & in full flow :-)

ejolson
Posts: 3724
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2014 11:47 am

Re: Pi 4 firmware, software stability improvements

Sun Jul 07, 2019 7:50 pm

cruster wrote:
Sun Jul 07, 2019 6:28 pm
Image
Nice pictures. What kind of power supply are you using?

cruster
Posts: 119
Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2014 7:56 pm

Re: Pi 4 firmware, software stability improvements

Sun Jul 07, 2019 8:05 pm

Just a generic 5v 3A I had spare.
Image

haaldemir
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon Jul 08, 2019 2:46 pm
Location: Istanbul, Turkey

Re: Pi 4 firmware, software stability improvements

Mon Jul 15, 2019 10:11 am

Hello everyone,

with latest update youtube now good 1080p. but it seems horizontal lines middle of the screen when fast moving. It can be remove in future updates?

User avatar
Jimblob64
Posts: 18
Joined: Fri May 20, 2016 12:02 am

Re: Pi 4 firmware, software stability improvements

Tue Jul 16, 2019 12:41 pm

Can confirm: using nothing but apt-get update & upgrade, the Pi 4 will now do 1080p60 YouTube videos in Chromium full screen- there's some occasional flicker or horizontal tearing, but it's otherwise smooth. (Monitor resolution was also set to 1080p60 at the time.)

Looking good so far.
RPi 4B w/ Buster in a toasty little official case, and an RPi 3B w/ Stretch.

jamesh
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Posts: 23931
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 7:41 pm

Re: Pi 4 firmware, software stability improvements

Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:04 pm

haaldemir wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 10:11 am
Hello everyone,

with latest update youtube now good 1080p. but it seems horizontal lines middle of the screen when fast moving. It can be remove in future updates?
This is called tearing, and without making X double buffer (!) will be difficult to mitigate against. And changes to X are not generally something we do.
Principal Software Engineer at Raspberry Pi (Trading) Ltd.
Contrary to popular belief, humorous signatures are allowed. Here's an example...
“I think it’s wrong that only one company makes the game Monopoly.” – Steven Wright

User avatar
hardwaremack-orginal
Posts: 55
Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2019 7:52 pm

Re: Pi 4 firmware, software stability improvements

Tue Jul 16, 2019 9:30 pm

if double buffer is what you need to make it not look bad... then why wouldn't you do it?

User avatar
hardwaremack-orginal
Posts: 55
Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2019 7:52 pm

Re: Pi 4 firmware, software stability improvements

Tue Jul 16, 2019 9:35 pm

1080p in 4K is still a slide show.

6by9
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Posts: 7443
Joined: Wed Dec 04, 2013 11:27 am
Location: ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha, aka just outside Cambridge.

Re: Pi 4 firmware, software stability improvements

Tue Jul 16, 2019 9:37 pm

hardwaremack-orginal wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 9:30 pm
if double buffer is what you need to make it not look bad... then why wouldn't you do it?
It's not the way X does things, therefore is almost a complete rewrite of the whole windowing system.
Wayland and Weston were attempts to do this, but when they got there they also found out just how hard it was.
Software Engineer at Raspberry Pi Trading. Views expressed are still personal views.
I'm not interested in doing contracts for bespoke functionality - please don't ask.

dickon
Posts: 529
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2012 3:54 pm
Location: Home, just outside Reading

Re: Pi 4 firmware, software stability improvements

Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:50 pm

hardwaremack-orginal wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 9:35 pm
1080p in 4K is still a slide show.
*p30 (or worse *p24) is a slide show. That's just the way it is.

Enable the p60 mode in config.txt and be done with it.

jamesh
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Posts: 23931
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 7:41 pm

Re: Pi 4 firmware, software stability improvements

Fri Jul 19, 2019 10:24 am

p30 isn't a slide show. It's perfectly fine for most sane people.

Standard frame rate for cinema is 24....

Not to say that >30 isn't better. It is. But 30 is perfectly usable. And saves a LOT of power.
Principal Software Engineer at Raspberry Pi (Trading) Ltd.
Contrary to popular belief, humorous signatures are allowed. Here's an example...
“I think it’s wrong that only one company makes the game Monopoly.” – Steven Wright

dickon
Posts: 529
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2012 3:54 pm
Location: Home, just outside Reading

Re: Pi 4 firmware, software stability improvements

Fri Jul 19, 2019 10:59 am

My eyes are a tad weird. To me, less than 50Hz is not smooth; I can look at a source and more or less immediately tell you if it's 24/25, 30, 50, or 60.

And yes, I don't much like cinema for this reason. Ever since TVs have gained the ability to interpolate, I have much preferred watching films at home.

Musketeer
Posts: 152
Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2016 1:23 pm
Location: CZ

Re: Pi 4 firmware, software stability improvements

Fri Jul 19, 2019 11:03 am

+ lot of bandwidth! I use 30 fps too for YT on my 10 Mbps net!
Linux is like woman - both wants 180 % of your time...
You want speed Java 9.8x? Throw it out of some Window(s)!
My girlfriend is terribly unmature - she always sinks my boats in bathtub!

HiassofT
Posts: 221
Joined: Fri Jun 30, 2017 10:07 pm
Location: Salzburg, Austria
Contact: Website

Re: Pi 4 firmware, software stability improvements

Fri Jul 19, 2019 11:15 am

dickon wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 10:59 am
My eyes are a tad weird. To me, less than 50Hz is not smooth; I can look at a source and more or less immediately tell you if it's 24/25, 30, 50, or 60.
It's not only your eyes. (almost) all people perceive it that way.

For desktop use a simple test is to scroll a document/webpage/... At 60Hz (which is the native rate of most monitors) most people will describe it as smooth, whereas at 30 or 24Hz it becomes a stutter/jump-fest.

so long,

Hias

aberts10
Posts: 17
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2014 1:57 am
Location: United States

Re: Pi 4 firmware, software stability improvements

Sun Sep 01, 2019 8:44 am

jamesh wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:04 pm
haaldemir wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 10:11 am
Hello everyone,

with latest update youtube now good 1080p. but it seems horizontal lines middle of the screen when fast moving. It can be remove in future updates?
This is called tearing, and without making X double buffer (!) will be difficult to mitigate against. And changes to X are not generally something we do.
Even wayland on the pi has screen tearing however. Weston will go nuts with screen tearing. I wasn't able to test plasma 5.16 wayland (not on raspbian) because it had all kinds of artifacts. I really hope the graphics drivers get sorted out in a few months, as at the moment they have quite a few issues. Tearing even with compositing is really horrible on the pi 4.

riccetto80
Posts: 15
Joined: Mon Aug 26, 2019 1:23 pm

Re: Pi 4 firmware, software stability improvements

Mon Sep 02, 2019 9:30 pm

jamesh wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:04 pm
haaldemir wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 10:11 am
Hello everyone,

with latest update youtube now good 1080p. but it seems horizontal lines middle of the screen when fast moving. It can be remove in future updates?
This is called tearing, and without making X double buffer (!) will be difficult to mitigate against. And changes to X are not generally something we do.
Hello!

sadly i experience tearing in any youtube video, windowed or full screen and is driving me insane.

but i dont understand:
Usually tearing is not present when refresh rate is the same or less then the monitor refresh!

for example my tv/monitor is set up at 60hz, so 60 frame for second, the youtube video is less (24/30 ps, i dont remember), or at max, the 60 fps (so the same at the monitors refresh), so why happen the tearing?

also, i cannot find option to force or turn on, v-sync, is not possible in raspbian last version?

and why in vlc the tearing is not happen? while in chromium with youtube, happen so badly?

im a confused noob, lol.

kenkrsme
Posts: 15
Joined: Sun Jul 28, 2019 1:36 pm

Re: Pi 4 firmware, software stability improvements

Mon Sep 02, 2019 10:57 pm

riccetto80 wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 9:30 pm
jamesh wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:04 pm
haaldemir wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 10:11 am
Hello everyone,

with latest update youtube now good 1080p. but it seems horizontal lines middle of the screen when fast moving. It can be remove in future updates?
This is called tearing, and without making X double buffer (!) will be difficult to mitigate against. And changes to X are not generally something we do.
Hello!

sadly i experience tearing in any youtube video, windowed or full screen and is driving me insane.

but i dont understand:
Usually tearing is not present when refresh rate is the same or less then the monitor refresh!

for example my tv/monitor is set up at 60hz, so 60 frame for second, the youtube video is less (24/30 ps, i dont remember), or at max, the 60 fps (so the same at the monitors refresh), so why happen the tearing?

also, i cannot find option to force or turn on, v-sync, is not possible in raspbian last version?

and why in vlc the tearing is not happen? while in chromium with youtube, happen so badly?

im a confused noob, lol.
x server/chromium doesnt double buffer. vlc does double buffer.

riccetto80
Posts: 15
Joined: Mon Aug 26, 2019 1:23 pm

Re: Pi 4 firmware, software stability improvements

Tue Sep 03, 2019 10:08 am

kenkrsme wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 10:57 pm
x server/chromium doesnt double buffer. vlc does double buffer.
thanks for reply!

Fireofx or other browser have double buffer?

there is a way to install something, a utility (compton? i dont know if is applicable on raspbian, im a total noob i try to learn now, after i buy a pi 4, just searched google) to fix the tearing issue on the raspberry pi 4?

really drive me insane, you cannot look youtube content and keep have horizontal line on the video. :(

bjtheone
Posts: 317
Joined: Mon May 20, 2019 11:28 pm
Location: Kanata, Ontario, Canada

Re: Pi 4 firmware, software stability improvements

Tue Sep 03, 2019 1:38 pm

riccetto80 wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2019 10:08 am
there is a way to install something, a utility (compton? i dont know if is applicable on raspbian, im a total noob i try to learn now, after i buy a pi 4, just searched google) to fix the tearing issue on the raspberry pi 4?

really drive me insane, you cannot look youtube content and keep have horizontal line on the video. :(
It may also depend on your specific monitor. Either than or I am totally insensitive to the issue. A Pi 3B+ certainly had artifacts and had issues playing YouTube, for me on the same monitor. A fully up to date 4B 4GB model does not have screen tearing issues for me when viewing YouTube using the standard Chromium (no tweaks and tuning) that is included in Raspbian Buster. This is on a fairly generic HP monitor (HP 22fw 21.5" FHD IPSGaming Monitor with AMD FreeSync Technology, 1920 x 1080, 75Hz, 5ms). VLC also plays movies with any issues.

kenkrsme
Posts: 15
Joined: Sun Jul 28, 2019 1:36 pm

Re: Pi 4 firmware, software stability improvements

Tue Sep 03, 2019 8:44 pm

riccetto80 wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2019 10:08 am
kenkrsme wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 10:57 pm
x server/chromium doesnt double buffer. vlc does double buffer.
thanks for reply!

Fireofx or other browser have double buffer?

there is a way to install something, a utility (compton? i dont know if is applicable on raspbian, im a total noob i try to learn now, after i buy a pi 4, just searched google) to fix the tearing issue on the raspberry pi 4?

really drive me insane, you cannot look youtube content and keep have horizontal line on the video. :(
use kodi or open youtube links in vlc. i dont think any browser will fix the issue.

aberts10
Posts: 17
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2014 1:57 am
Location: United States

Re: Pi 4 firmware, software stability improvements

Wed Sep 04, 2019 12:34 am

bjtheone wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2019 1:38 pm
riccetto80 wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2019 10:08 am
there is a way to install something, a utility (compton? i dont know if is applicable on raspbian, im a total noob i try to learn now, after i buy a pi 4, just searched google) to fix the tearing issue on the raspberry pi 4?

really drive me insane, you cannot look youtube content and keep have horizontal line on the video. :(
It may also depend on your specific monitor. Either than or I am totally insensitive to the issue. A Pi 3B+ certainly had artifacts and had issues playing YouTube, for me on the same monitor. A fully up to date 4B 4GB model does not have screen tearing issues for me when viewing YouTube using the standard Chromium (no tweaks and tuning) that is included in Raspbian Buster. This is on a fairly generic HP monitor (HP 22fw 21.5" FHD IPSGaming Monitor with AMD FreeSync Technology, 1920 x 1080, 75Hz, 5ms). VLC also plays movies with any issues.
I've tried it on three different monitors from different manufacturers. All three had tearing. A HP, Dell, and Samsung 1080p monitor. The dell supports up to 144hz too. None of my computers get tearing connected up, so it's certainly the pi having issues. Perhaps your specific monitor doesn't have tearing issues, or you are truly insensitive to tearing.

jamesh
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Posts: 23931
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 7:41 pm

Re: Pi 4 firmware, software stability improvements

Wed Sep 04, 2019 9:22 am

aberts10 wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 12:34 am
bjtheone wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2019 1:38 pm
riccetto80 wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2019 10:08 am
there is a way to install something, a utility (compton? i dont know if is applicable on raspbian, im a total noob i try to learn now, after i buy a pi 4, just searched google) to fix the tearing issue on the raspberry pi 4?

really drive me insane, you cannot look youtube content and keep have horizontal line on the video. :(
It may also depend on your specific monitor. Either than or I am totally insensitive to the issue. A Pi 3B+ certainly had artifacts and had issues playing YouTube, for me on the same monitor. A fully up to date 4B 4GB model does not have screen tearing issues for me when viewing YouTube using the standard Chromium (no tweaks and tuning) that is included in Raspbian Buster. This is on a fairly generic HP monitor (HP 22fw 21.5" FHD IPSGaming Monitor with AMD FreeSync Technology, 1920 x 1080, 75Hz, 5ms). VLC also plays movies with any issues.
I've tried it on three different monitors from different manufacturers. All three had tearing. A HP, Dell, and Samsung 1080p monitor. The dell supports up to 144hz too. None of my computers get tearing connected up, so it's certainly the pi having issues. Perhaps your specific monitor doesn't have tearing issues, or you are truly insensitive to tearing.
It's not the monitors. It's the software not being double buffered. Tearing occurs when the frame being viewed on the display is changed whilst on the display. Double buffering means changes are drawn on another frame, and that is switched on to the display at frame sync time, and the old frame is then used to draw on.
Principal Software Engineer at Raspberry Pi (Trading) Ltd.
Contrary to popular belief, humorous signatures are allowed. Here's an example...
“I think it’s wrong that only one company makes the game Monopoly.” – Steven Wright

Return to “General discussion”