jamesh
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:00 am

gkreidl wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 9:57 am
Is OpenMax still supported? Will omxplayer continue to work (except for the missing HW codecs)? I'm using it a lot of projects.
OMXplayer will work for H264, that stuff is unchanged, but the MP2 and VC1 codecs no longer exist on the Pi4, and OMXplayer won't use the software decoders.

We are still working on video stuff, at the moment Kodi is the only system that can play back HEVC.
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:00 am

Killertechno wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 9:58 am
Are you planning to build CM4 and/or any upgrade for CM3?
CM4 will exist at some point - but there are significant challenges to making all the gubbins fit in an SODIMM footprint.
Rockets are loud.
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:03 am

RPi4 released - 4GB sold out!!!! :cry:

2GB & 1GB(!?) still available at The PiHut. -- correction - 1GB sold out!

But, why, oh why, has it got micro HDMI sockets!!! - extra expense to buy all new cables!!! :?
Oh, & needs a new more powerful PSU.

Will have to think about whether or not it's going to be worth the aggro! :roll:
Last edited by k-pi on Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:21 am, edited 3 times in total.

ejolson
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:05 am

jamesh wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 9:31 am
Heater wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 9:27 am
Mostly the same, but mo' better, just how we like it.
Under the skin, much is different. This is the biggest HW change in Pi history.
The new hardware seems pretty much what people have been asking for. A few questions:

1. Are all the USB ports behind an internal hub or can some of them function in gadget mode?

2. Will Mathematica still run?

3. Is there a list of compatible hats? For example, does the unicorn hat still function?

Thanks for all the good work. It's nice to see the new model now and amazing that you were able to remove the built-in sandwich toaster at such short notice.
Last edited by ejolson on Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

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pi-anazazi
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:07 am

jamesh wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 9:06 am
zohixatax wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 8:55 am
DISABLE WIFI/Bluetooth - Or Better still is there going to be a version with no WIFI/BT Chip ??

Is there a WIF/BlueTooth Hardware switch ?

I know you can disable this with software, but when thats done is the chip OFF ??
Let me get this right. We release a new Pi, with loads of extra features, and amazing specs, at an amazing price.

And for your first post you want to turn stuff off or remove it completely? Stuff that us engineers have spent years of our lives on.

Sometimes, I just despair.

Still, I guess it happened on every single release we have done - I should be getting used to it by now.
Sorry, but he is not the only one asking for this (for years?). Could you please accept that there are people out there who don't need and don'T want to use this wifi/bluetooth stuff, no matter how hard your engineers
worked for it?

I basically stay with Raspi 2 as I don't want wifi/bt. Or use products from other vendors w/o these features. It might be a security issue, btw... ;-)
Kind regards

anazazi

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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:07 am

Just ordered my 4GB on Okdo.com - they seem to have stock

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Kushan
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:07 am

I suspect I know the answer to this from reading posts and looking at the datasheet, but are there any spare PCI-Express lanes that can be used by addon cards? For example, if someone wanted to add nVME storage to it, is it theoretically possible without going via USB?

On a related vein, what is the SD card reader rated at? Should we expect any kind of performance increase there over the 3B+?

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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:10 am

ejolson wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:05 am
The new hardware seems pretty much what people have been asking for. A few questions:

1. Are all the USB ports behind an internal HUB or can some of them function in gadget mode?

2. Will Mathematica still run?

3. Is there a list of compatible hats? For example, does the unicorn hat still work?

Thanks for all the good work. It's nice to see the new model now and amazing that you were able to remove the built-in sandwich toaster at such short notice.
1. Downstream USB ports are all host-mode only. USB OTG (2.0) has moved to the USB-C port.
2. There's a temporary incompatibility with Mathematica on Buster, it's removed from the image at the moment.
3. All HATs should JustWork(tm) unless they're using non-standard means of accessing the peripheral hardware.

Kushan wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:07 am
I suspect I know the answer to this from reading posts and looking at the datasheet, but are there any spare PCI-Express lanes that can be used by addon cards? For example, if someone wanted to add nVME storage to it, is it theoretically possible without going via USB?

On a related vein, what is the SD card reader rated at? Should we expect any kind of performance increase there over the 3B+?
The PCIe controller in BCM2711 is a single-lane gen 2.0 link - there are no spare lanes. In theory you could use a PCIe switch chip to split those lanes out, but I don't know if the controller supports that.
SD slot speeds are now DDR50. Double the bus bandwidth.
Rockets are loud.
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:12 am

pi-anazazi wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:07 am
jamesh wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 9:06 am
zohixatax wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 8:55 am
DISABLE WIFI/Bluetooth - Or Better still is there going to be a version with no WIFI/BT Chip ??

Is there a WIF/BlueTooth Hardware switch ?

I know you can disable this with software, but when thats done is the chip OFF ??
Let me get this right. We release a new Pi, with loads of extra features, and amazing specs, at an amazing price.

And for your first post you want to turn stuff off or remove it completely? Stuff that us engineers have spent years of our lives on.

Sometimes, I just despair.

Still, I guess it happened on every single release we have done - I should be getting used to it by now.
Sorry, but he is not the only one asking for this (for years?). Could you please accept that there are people out there who don't need and don'T want to use this wifi/bluetooth stuff, no matter how hard your engineers
worked for it?

I basically stay with Raspi 2 as I don't want wifi/bt. Or use products from other vendors w/o these features. It might be a security issue, btw... ;-)
He may not be the only one asking for it, but he is one of only a tiny number of people. So it's probably not going to happen. Just not enough demand. And my point stays the same, this is a Pi 4 launch, it is what it is, and it IS what the market wants.
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:18 am

Long term Pi forum denizen Roy Longbottom has produced a considerable number of benchmarks for the Pi4, find it here https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio ... Benchmarks
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:18 am

Is the _analog_ audio still the same, level, impedance etc.? With the Pi3 and the new driver, audio quality is acceptable, but it is difficult to use decent headphones without overloading the output or ending up with very low volume.

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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:20 am

mikerr wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 9:23 am
- No USB/netboot at launch (but added later with user update to the EEPROM)
Is there any info about this ?
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:24 am

pagenotfound wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:18 am
Is the _analog_ audio still the same, level, impedance etc.? With the Pi3 and the new driver, audio quality is acceptable, but it is difficult to use decent headphones without overloading the output or ending up with very low volume.
Unchanged. The recommendation is to use 32 ohm impedance headphones - these work well enough.
Rockets are loud.
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:28 am

PeterO wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:20 am
mikerr wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 9:23 am
- No USB/netboot at launch (but added later with user update to the EEPROM)
Is there any info about this ?
PeterO
https://www.raspberrypi.org/documentati ... teeprom.md
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:29 am

Just read the blog and browsed all of the above post
still trying to get to the data sheet....

just some quick questions:
1. USB boot still factory set? (oops jamesh posted the reply to this before I posted :) )
2. new PMIC?

anyway am getting one of each variant first....as soon as my supplier stocks it (and I hope very soon!)....
Last edited by LTolledo on Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - where's the ADC?

Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:30 am

The new Pi 4 looks great for laptop or desktop replacement. But, why no ADC available on the GPIO multiplexed pins? Is there a commercial reason in that the Foundation don't want to upset the re-sellers with the various peripherals that provide an ADC function. ADC inputs would finally kick Arduinos into touch!
Tony

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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:31 am

What PCIe controller does the new SoC use?

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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:32 am

LTolledo wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:29 am
Just read the blog and browsed all of the above post
still trying to get to the data sheet....

just some quick questions:
1. USB boot still factory set?
2. new PMIC?

anyway am getting one of each variant first....as soon as my supplier stocks it (and I hope very soon!)....
USB boot not yet released. PXE boot also on the way. Because we can now program the bootloader in the onboard flash, rather than it being hardwired in to the SoC, upgrades like this are much easier.

I believe the PMIC is the same but circuitry improved so we should not get the PMIC failures caused by shorting we have seen on the Pi3B+.
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:33 am

jdb wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 8:57 am
cheungie wrote: May I ask whether RPI supports things such as 10 bit video decoding, Dolby Vision and Atmos? Thx.
HEVC hardware decode supports 4kp60, 10-bit. Audio output is pretty much unchanged, but the HDMI audio channels now support 8x192kHz bitrates.
Thank you for confirming this! I agree with what someone else said - that the specs pages are inaccurate until they clarify what HEVC profiles are supported by the SoC decoding hardware.

Before I go buy a bunch of these, can you also confirm that Rec. 2100 is supported and works as expected? Basically, if I have an HDR display connected to the Pi 4 via a HDMI 2.0 cable, will the Pi correctly transmit the HDR10 / HLG information to the display so that HDR "just works"? Or is this information stripped and the video plays in SDR? If it works, you guys may have just revolutionized the HTPC SBC marketplace. Thanks!

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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:34 am

jamesh wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:12 am

He may not be the only one asking for it, but he is one of only a tiny number of people. So it's probably not going to happen. Just not enough demand. And my point stays the same, this is a Pi 4 launch, it is what it is, and it IS what the market wants.
So we have here a product I can choose the size of RAM, but not if I want to have wifi/BT?

I don't think that this is what the markets want. I was waiting for Raspi 4. But now I buy another Odroid. Sorry... :-(
Kind regards

anazazi

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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - where's the ADC?

Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:36 am

tony1tf wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:30 am
The new Pi 4 looks great for laptop or desktop replacement. But, why no ADC available on the GPIO multiplexed pins? Is there a commercial reason in that the Foundation don't want to upset the re-sellers with the various peripherals that provide an ADC function. ADC inputs would finally kick Arduinos into touch!
Tony
Cost, which would be applied to all users, vs a smaller number of people who would actually use it is one reason. Another is that the die space on the SoC. It's easy enough to add one or more on the GPIO's, and we now have more I2C to help with that.
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:39 am

pi-anazazi wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:34 am
jamesh wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:12 am

He may not be the only one asking for it, but he is one of only a tiny number of people. So it's probably not going to happen. Just not enough demand. And my point stays the same, this is a Pi 4 launch, it is what it is, and it IS what the market wants.
So we have here a product I can choose the size of RAM, but not if I want to have wifi/BT?

I don't think that this is what the markets want. I was waiting for Raspi 4. But now I buy another Odroid. Sorry... :-(
That is indeed the product. If you DONT want WiFi/BT then this isn't the product for you. Not sure why you would think the Pi4 would NOT have Wifi or BT, the markets demand it.

Although you can turn it off in SW very easily, so not sure what the problem is.
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:39 am

jamesh wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:32 am
LTolledo wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:29 am
Just read the blog and browsed all of the above post
still trying to get to the data sheet....

just some quick questions:
1. USB boot still factory set?
2. new PMIC?

anyway am getting one of each variant first....as soon as my supplier stocks it (and I hope very soon!)....
USB boot not yet released. PXE boot also on the way. Because we can now program the bootloader in the onboard flash, rather than it being hardwired in to the SoC, upgrades like this are much easier.

I believe the PMIC is the same but circuitry improved so we should not get the PMIC failures caused by shorting we have seen on the Pi3B+.
thanks for replying.... I've read about the USB boot on the link you provided. I'll be patient until the feature is available....
its good to know that the RPF engineers (and all support staff) have improved the power supply circuitry....

.....cant wait to get my ichin' hands on it.....
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Come to me with 'problems' and I'll help you find solutions"

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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:41 am

alexdev wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:31 am
What PCIe controller does the new SoC use?
It's a BRCM controller built in to the SoC. Don't know the number offhand, or indeed if it has one.
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:45 am

Can you PLEASE stop these brain dumps.
Sorry, just me thinking out aloud, I will add Question numbers and ? marks.
Will have to think about whether or not it's going to be worth the aggro! :roll:
You could wait for the Pi5 which now will likely also have two micro HDMIs?
Really so much agro about an extra connector? Ah, that missing sarcasm emoji?

Don't mobile phones etc come with micro HDMI!
Think I saw some cables at Daiso for $2.80 AUD?

Q1) This is the new footprint for Pi5-6?
Case designers might like to know.
I now have Element14 Desktop case that won't fit these :(
Dremel time?
SD slot speeds are now DDR50. Double the bus bandwidth.
Q2) What cards will we need to get to get max SD performance?
Will be interesting to compare against USB3 SSD booting when that is working.

Q3) Of that 4Mb secondary boot EEPROM, how much is spare?

Q4) What was the initial batch quantities?
It looks like they are selling fast.

Q5) What are planned monthly qty?
It is starting to look like I will have to wait till next production :o
It will be interesting to see how fast the Pi4's are selling.

Q6) Is that 8GB version in one doc a typo, or is it possible in a future version?
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