jamesh
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Re: Raspberry Pi is unusable as everyday computer

Thu Apr 11, 2019 3:59 pm

stuartiannaylor wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 2:15 pm
I am sort of worried about Raspberry because of the blinkered focus on the $35 'computer' as its likely to place the Pi4 in no-mans land.
The $15-20 Pi-Zero-2 is probably more interesting device question and it makes me wonder that the $35 Pi4 could be folly as Things have definitely changed.
If I were you, I wouldn't worry.
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Re: Raspberry Pi is unusable as everyday computer

Thu Apr 11, 2019 5:54 pm

I've got a Raspberry Pi 3B with Raspbian and nothing is bad. Normally, it's difficult install things like the latest version of Firefox or Chrome... but here is more alternatives like Chromium. I use my Raspberry Pi for programming and for normal use (ofimatic, play games...) with 1MB/s or 2MB/s and a 32GB card works better than I think. I doesn't have any other computer. ONLY THE RASPBERRY PI. And works properly, sometimes anything fails but much more than normal computers and other SoC s.
Too, think that only costs 35USD the 3B and the Zero 10USD. If you configure and install the things right. It works properly as a normal computer.
The rule for the RPi: sudo apt update :D
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Re: Raspberry Pi is unusable as everyday computer

Thu Apr 11, 2019 6:03 pm

stuartiannaylor wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 2:15 pm
What is going to be strange is the the Pi4 is likely to jump considerably to entry level computing and match many of the maker boards currently employing the RK3399 which does power many Chromebooks and may well compete price wise by the time the Pi4 is released.
Never was, never will be a everyday computer but currently its capable of a plethora of everyday devices and now we have a convergence and question to what is everyday computing as the device matches entry level computing.
It all comes down to "How do you define entry level computing"? For some definitions, the Pi Model B meets that. For others, it takes an Intel I3 or equivalent.

There are several ways the Pi4 could go. Some of them could make it a more acceptable daily use, desktop machine. Others won't. In addition, it depends on what you expect your desktop machine to be capable of doing. For instance, a stock Pi3B is the desktop machine for my 11-year-old grandson. For what he does with it, it works just fine. I'll probably upgrade his system to a Pi4B when they are available, but at this point I don't see any point in moving it to a Pi3B+.

Personally, one direction I think would be interesting would be to use the natural advantages of going to 28nm (or below) would be to reduce the power requirements, even if that means keeping the clock speed the same. That would have knock-on effects like less thermal throttling and--therefore--a more "even' performance. I suspect a compromise is more likely. Having the same (or a bit less) power needed combined with a modest clock speed increase.
I am sort of worried about Raspberry because of the blinkered focus on the $35 'computer' as its likely to place the Pi4 in no-mans land.
The $15-20 Pi-Zero-2 is probably more interesting device question and it makes me wonder that the $35 Pi4 could be folly as Things have definitely changed.
That "blinkered" focus on price has revolutionized the SBC market and made the Pi the 800-lb gorilla of the SBC market. It strikes me as a real advantange for the RPT/RPF to keep that price. It also maintains the price pressure on other SBCs, and that's good for everyone that uses them.

There have been no hints about the future of Pi0. Given the entire reason for its existence, I can't see any reason why, should there be a revised Pi0, that the price would go into the range you indicate.

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Re: Raspberry Pi is unusable as everyday computer

Thu Apr 11, 2019 8:46 pm

The Raspberry Pi (3B and/or 3B+) is usable as everyday computer for those who want to use it as such....

....and not usable as everyday computer for those who don't want to.....
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Re: Raspberry Pi is unusable as everyday computer

Fri Apr 12, 2019 1:08 am

Ralphxyz wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 3:40 pm
I am setting up the Solid State Drive!
...
Edit config.txt add "program_USB_boot_mode=1" without quotes to the end of file and save.
...
You don't need program_USB_boot_mode=1 on the 3B+ (that's done at the factory, and is the default on the 3B+).

Glad it works, though. Try a few cold boots and reboots to see what happens. Some adapters will cold boot fine but fail on reboot.

I'm curious why you chose that adapter instead of one of the recommended ones?
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Re: Raspberry Pi is unusable as everyday computer

Fri Apr 12, 2019 4:48 am

Another thing to consider is the OS.
Raspbian is probably middle of the range for size/speed.

If I install TC(the Desktop) on PiCore I have a x11 OS that is quick and very small.
But no fancy browser or YouTube video viewer etc, text mode browser ;) .
Perfectly usable for editing a few files.

Usable depends on the user and the use, the things they do everyday.
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Re: Raspberry Pi is unusable as everyday computer

Fri Apr 12, 2019 8:18 am

Gavinmc42 wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 4:48 am
Another thing to consider is the OS.
Raspbian is probably middle of the range for size/speed.
No, not really, it's at the faster end of the full systems, although there isn't a huge amount of difference in speed over all the distros, even including the 64bit ones.
Gavinmc42 wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 4:48 am
If I install TC(the Desktop) on PiCore I have a x11 OS that is quick and very small.
But no fancy browser or YouTube video viewer etc, text mode browser ;) .
Perfectly usable for editing a few files.

Usable depends on the user and the use, the things they do everyday.
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Re: Raspberry Pi is unusable as everyday computer

Fri Apr 12, 2019 8:19 am

W. H. Heydt wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 6:03 pm

There are several ways the Pi4 could go. Some of them could make it a more acceptable daily use, desktop machine. Others won't. In addition, it depends on what you expect your desktop machine to be capable of doing. For instance, a stock Pi3B is the desktop machine for my 11-year-old grandson. For what he does with it, it works just fine. I'll probably upgrade his system to a Pi4B when they are available, but at this point I don't see any point in moving it to a Pi3B+.

Personally, one direction I think would be interesting would be to use the natural advantages of going to 28nm (or below) would be to reduce the power requirements, even if that means keeping the clock speed the same. That would have knock-on effects like less thermal throttling and--therefore--a more "even' performance. I suspect a compromise is more likely. Having the same (or a bit less) power needed combined with a modest clock speed increase.

That "blinkered" focus on price has revolutionized the SBC market and made the Pi the 800-lb gorilla of the SBC market. It strikes me as a real advantange for the RPT/RPF to keep that price. It also maintains the price pressure on other SBCs, and that's good for everyone that uses them.

There have been no hints about the future of Pi0. Given the entire reason for its existence, I can't see any reason why, should there be a revised Pi0, that the price would go into the range you indicate.
I like tinkering with some of the Chinese SBC's as unlike raspbian even finding an image that will boot is a chore and its not because they are good, but just out of general interest.
You get to see some quite new low cost chips that are really mobile phone / set-top box chipsets, that with a certain level of empathy for your grandson that he might be desktopping on what some may not consider an entry level mobile phone.
But we all have different opinions, but markets and technology change and like you mention about process 28nm or lower, its going to be really interesting.
I mention the zero-w because I think its a fab product, near perfect maker / tinkerer product and with the jump to new process fabrication will that jump to pi-zero-2 or maybe things are moving so fast that it will be a pi-zero-3.
My bananapi-zero was a complete waste of time and orange-pi-zero-plus is not much better the first just a terrible product and latter, its not so bad just hasn't got Raspbian and the engineers that raspberry have.
Same goes for the RockPro64 as the OS is very hit and miss, but what it packs into a SoC is pretty amazing and the Chinese board manufactures biggest problem is the cost of connectors and layout because this thing offers such much.
Dunno if you have seen the spec on the Dual Cortex-A72 + Quad Cortex-A53, 64-bit CPU RK3399 its being offered in cut-down boards for $45 now and its what I would call entry level computing with devices such as the Chromebooks it can often be found in.
They contain so many interfaces and cpu power enough to supply, that unless its in a 'compute' form for $35 and maybe a basic carrier for $10-$20 its going to seriously reduce what its likely the Pi4 SoC can offer.

I have been amazed by the Pi-Zero-W and its price point. Superb product by Raspberry, but because of it, its eaten some of the $35 scope and it doesn't sort of fit any more. If its just incremental then it will be Raspbian alone that keeps it afloat, it would need another amazing product but with a squeeze $50 could very much be in the realms of entry level computing.
If you look at the plethora of devices and projects then it is not commonly entry level computing, but it is somewhere Raspberry should once again be innovative as Raspberry now even has product that steals a section of the low end market.

stuartiannaylor

Re: Raspberry Pi is unusable as everyday computer

Sat Apr 13, 2019 1:21 am

jamesh wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 8:18 am
Gavinmc42 wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 4:48 am
Another thing to consider is the OS.
Raspbian is probably middle of the range for size/speed.
No, not really, it's at the faster end of the full systems, although there isn't a huge amount of difference in speed over all the distros, even including the 64bit ones.
Gavinmc42 wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 4:48 am
If I install TC(the Desktop) on PiCore I have a x11 OS that is quick and very small.
But no fancy browser or YouTube video viewer etc, text mode browser ;) .
Perfectly usable for editing a few files.

Usable depends on the user and the use, the things they do everyday.
You are correct as speed wise there is little difference apart from what some opinion might consider bloat.
I have tried DietPi/PiCore but to be honest didn't rate them much and failed to see an advantage.
Arch Linux for the Pi is extremely good for custom specific builds for function but quite impressed with Raspbian generally.
Raspbian-Lite is pretty light but maybe there could also be a more JEOS form?

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Re: Raspberry Pi is unusable as everyday computer

Sat Apr 13, 2019 6:06 am

I'm actually back in Raspbian land now mainly because it is easier to do some stuff in it due to debs being available.
Gentoo64 for Aarch64, OpenGL coding, PiCore for 24/7 fixed installation monitors and Ultibo for learning OS's, OpenVG.
Keeping track of the uSD cards is an issue, especially as they are wearing out now.

Did try latest Raspbian on a Pi B+ last night, slow as, yep PiCore is faster, Ultibo fastest.
Less of an issue with the 3B+'s, most just work except PiCore which is still command line only, X11 windows still in progress.
The 3B+ are usually running external USB sticks or SSDs, don't worry about boot times for them as they are turning into desktops.

OS's are becoming like computer languages, I use whatever is the easiest, which changes when my skills improve or deteriorate..
I have enough trouble learning just with PI's without adding clones to the mix.
Pi's as everyday computer? I use them everyday, just not as a Desktop yet.

Those Zero's are so cute, just need to figure out what else I can use them for.
I have only used one Zero WH in a gadget with Ultibo.
Need to find more applications for them.
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Re: Raspberry Pi is unusable as everyday computer

Sat Apr 13, 2019 8:52 am

Heater wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 8:07 am

Anyway, around here a Pi won't cut it as an everyday PC/laptop replacement for me until it can run Lt Spice, Quartus and a handful of other programs that are Windows and/or x86 only programs. Meanwhile, 'er in doors would throw a Pi back at me a soon as she found how badly it ran Facebook, Farmville and various TV channels. They already max out her laptop.
Then why not put a Linux distro on her laptop?

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Re: Raspberry Pi is unusable as everyday computer

Sat Apr 13, 2019 9:10 am

Speedwell68,
Then why not put a Linux distro on her laptop?
As it happens I deleted Windows from all machines in the house in 1998. 'er in doors was quite happy using RedHat, then Gentoo, then Debian. And whatever else I experimented over the years.

Then our tranquility was broken. Her work required using some Windows only program and she went out and bought a laptop with Windows. I was not about to start fighting with Wine to see if I could get it to work on Linux. Now I'm a Win 10 maintainer. Grrr...

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Re: Raspberry Pi is unusable as everyday computer

Sat Apr 13, 2019 9:41 am

Heater wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 9:10 am
Now I'm a Win 10 maintainer. Grrr...
What's the problem? Windows10 maintains itself. It will download and install updates, and even reboot without you doing anything.
It can downgrade your carefully installed up-to-date GPU driver with the older "latest" M$ approved version.
It even knows that an up-to-date system is more important than not trashing several hours of simuulation on a GPU. :evil: :cry: :roll: :o :shock:
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Re: Raspberry Pi is unusable as everyday computer

Sat Apr 13, 2019 9:59 am

Windows10 maintains itself. It will download and install updates, ....
Yep it is so smart it even helps other PC's nearby on the net to update themselves from your downloads.
That way MS's servers are not clogged with every Win10 box downloading updates.
Sometimes, I swear it refuse to let me do stuff my way.

I am going to start calling my work Win10 box HAL.
If it starts talking, it goes out the window, "I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I cannot do that".

Pi's are more usable? Well at least they do what they are told.
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Re: Raspberry Pi is unusable as everyday computer

Sat Apr 13, 2019 10:13 am

"Windows maintainer" might be putting to strongly but it seems every other day something stops working at random and I get called over to "fix" it. Thus wasting another hour of my life.

But I see you appreciate the problem.

If MS had to pay the going rate for all those billions of man hours spent by Windows users friends and family members nursing their OS problems for free, for all these decades, they would be bankrupt.

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Re: Raspberry Pi is unusable as everyday computer

Sat Apr 13, 2019 10:25 am

Gavinmc42 wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 9:59 am
Pi's are more usable? Well at least they do what they are told.
Pi4 will have PiSense technology to make sure it does what you think you told it, not what you actually said. (Yes, speech input too.) :lol:
Google's search autocorrect runs on the prototype. :o
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Re: Raspberry Pi is unusable as everyday computer

Sat Apr 13, 2019 10:48 am

"Windows maintainer" might be putting to strongly but it seems every other day something stops working at random and I get called over to "fix" it. Thus wasting another hour of my life.

But I see you appreciate the problem.
I gave up on the wife's Win10 box after the second hard drive got trashed, grabbed a new, smaller SSD drive, Linux mint on a USB stick.
One hour later new OS that just worked without spending the first day updating itself.
I would say Win10 has already become unusable for my family.
It was bit rude too as we had net connection via mobile broadband at that time, now we have Linux and fibre ;)
Linux got used after weeks of Win10 issues, so not just one hour lost.

I gave it a good try, I was in the earlier adopter program and had many builds.
Work PC got upgraded to Win10 few months ago, this week got the blue screen 4 times.
Old Win7, used for years don't remember any blue screens.
My Win10 UX has not been good.

Thanks to 7 years playing with Pi's OS's, Linux is known and no longer scary.
Any OS that misbehaves around here, it is toast :D
If a Pi crashes I usually know why, Win10 , no clue.
DOS3.3 was the last time I knew how to fix PC OS issues.

So I am thinking perhaps it really is time for a Pi to make it to a Desktop around here.
I got a Pi Desktop case from Element14, all it is waiting for now is a mSATA SSD.

One of the side effects of Eben's plan to teach coding seems to have been teaching Linux.

My worry is what if Pi4 comes with Android or Windows?
With an AI/ML FPGA that learns ;)
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Ralphxyz
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Re: Raspberry Pi IS USABLE AS DAY TO DAY COMPUTER!!

Sun Apr 14, 2019 4:03 pm

With the Stretch OS, ZRAM and SSD the pi is working for my wife.

I have suggested she post a thank you and recap!!

RE: Windows 10, I cannot believe a business can survive using Windows 10.

There is always an issue especially after updates, things just don't work on my HP i7 computer.

Every 6 months my computer is not usable for a couple of, especially after a update, I think
it takes a couple of days for Microsoft to fix the introduced bugs and do a new update.

Remember when they were called "Bugfix" and not updates.

Apple introduced the term update to their (Bug)fixes.

Thanks everyone,
Oh the great thing about using a pi for your everyday computer is the lack of adds.
Rarely get a popup with the Pi constantly get them with Windows 10 even with adblockers.
The ad blockers are always dated to ads on the day of release the next day they are ineffective
against the "new wave" of ads. The Pi is just not targeted!

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Re: Raspberry Pi is unusable as everyday computer

Mon May 06, 2019 6:51 pm

I could get Raspberry Pi 3B to hang by going to this page in Chromium in Raspbian Stretch https://scratch.mit.edu/projects/87860395/, but after changing the swap size from 100 MB to 1024 MB it can run. But it's still bad that Chromium hangs the Raspberry Pi when running low on memory. The Raspberry Pi hangs in the way that the mouse and keyboard are unusable. It's then necessary to pull the plug (and risk destroying the SD card). I think the Pi should never hang so that you can't move the mouse and click, and use the keyboard, to e.g. shut down programs or tabs in Chromium. The Pi can also hang in this way if you open a large pdf in the PDF Viewer. This indicates that the problem is Linux or X and not only Chromium. Linux or X should reserve some memory so that you can use the GUI even if a program misbehaves and grabs too much memory.

Chromium often shows the message "Page Unresponsive" as a white window without buttons in low RAM conditions, and this only makes the GUI even more sluggish at that time, and you usually have to pull the plug, unless you have time to wait a very long while.
Last edited by mob-i-l on Tue May 07, 2019 8:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Raspberry Pi is unusable as everyday computer

Mon May 06, 2019 8:11 pm

mob-i-l wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 6:51 pm
I could get Raspberry Pi 3B to hang by going to this page in Chromium in Raspbian Stretch https://scratch.mit.edu/projects/87860395/, but after changing the swap size from 100 MB to 1024 MB it can run. But it's still bad that Chromium hangs the Raspberry Pi when running low on memory. The Raspberry Pi hangs in the way that the mouse and keyboard are unusable. It's then necessary to pull the plug (and risk destroying the SD card). I think the Pi should never hang so that you can't move the mouse and click, and use the keyboard, to e.g. shut down programs or tabs in Chromium. The Pi can also hang in this way if you open a large pdf in the PDF Viewer. This indicates that the problem is Linux or X and not only Chromium. Linux or X should reserve some memory so that you can use the GUI even if a program misbehaves and grabs too much memory.

Chromium often shows the message "Page Unresponsive" as a white windows without buttons in low RAM conditions, and this only makes the GUI even more sluggish at that time, and you usually have to pull the plug, unless you have time to wait a very long while.
Nothing to do with the Pi or Linux. It's simply the combination of 1 GB memory limit, memory consuming web pages and bloated software like chromium or qpdfview.
Use an external SSD or HDD for swapping, set the swap space to at least 1 GB and set swappiness to 20 or more. The RPi will slow down, if memory gets low, but it won't freeze any more.
And never pull the power plug! It will sooner or later destroy the SD card.
Last edited by gkreidl on Mon May 06, 2019 10:21 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Optional fullscreen kiosk mode and command interface for embedded applications
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Re: Raspberry Pi is unusable as everyday computer

Mon May 06, 2019 9:12 pm

mob-i-l wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 6:51 pm
I could get Raspberry Pi 3B to hang by going to this page in Chromium in Raspbian Stretch https://scratch.mit.edu/projects/87860395/, but after changing the swap size from 100 MB to 1024 MB it can run. But it's still bad that Chromium hangs the Raspberry Pi when running low on memory. The Raspberry Pi hangs in the way that the mouse and keyboard are unusable. It's then necessary to pull the plug (and risk destroying the SD card). I think the Pi should never hang so that you can't move the mouse and click, and use the keyboard, to e.g. shut down programs or tabs in Chromium. The Pi can also hang in this way if you open a large pdf in the PDF Viewer. This indicates that the problem is Linux or X and not only Chromium. Linux or X should reserve some memory so that you can use the GUI even if a program misbehaves and grabs too much memory.

Chromium often shows the message "Page Unresponsive" as a white windows without buttons in low RAM conditions, and this only makes the GUI even more sluggish at that time, and you usually have to pull the plug, unless you have time to wait a very long while.
All/most computers do this when they run out of memory. It's called thrashing, where the CPU is spending most of its time moving memory pages to and from cache/swap, rather than actually doing any actual work. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thrashing ... r_science)

It's less common nowadays where computers have so much memory.
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Re: Raspberry Pi is unusable as everyday computer

Mon May 06, 2019 9:43 pm

gkreidl wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 8:11 pm
mob-i-l wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 6:51 pm
I could get Raspberry Pi 3B to hang by going to this page in Chromium in Raspbian Stretch https://scratch.mit.edu/projects/87860395/, but after changing the swap size from 100 MB to 1024 MB it can run. But it's still bad that Chromium hangs the Raspberry Pi when running low on memory. The Raspberry Pi hangs in the way that the mouse and keyboard are unusable. It's then necessary to pull the plug (and risk destroying the SD card). I think the Pi should never hang so that you can't move the mouse and click, and use the keyboard, to e.g. shut down programs or tabs in Chromium. The Pi can also hang in this way if you open a large pdf in the PDF Viewer. This indicates that the problem is Linux or X and not only Chromium. Linux or X should reserve some memory so that you can use the GUI even if a program misbehaves and grabs too much memory.

Chromium often shows the message "Page Unresponsive" as a white windows without buttons in low RAM conditions, and this only makes the GUI even more sluggish at that time, and you usually have to pull the plug, unless you have time to wait a very long while.
Nothing to do with the Pi or Linux. It's simply the combination of 1 GB memory limit, memory cosumimg web pages and bloated software like chromium or qpdfview.
Use an external SDD or HDD for swapping, set the swap space to at least 1 GB and set swappiness to 20 or more. The RPi will slow down, if memory gets low, but it won't freeze any more.
And never pull the power plug! It will sooner or later destroy the SD card.
No need to pull the plug! Ever!

Just use the built-in Kernel keyboard shortcuts. These will work even if the entire operating system is frozen.
Below is the sequence I use to safely shutdown:
Hold down the Alt and SysRq during the entire sequence.
press the following keys at 3 second intervals: R E I S U B
My screen usually goes black after I press the S key.
At the end of the sequence, the Pi should have unmounted everything and can safely be unplugged without the fear of damaging the SD card.

Or use ZRAM!
Avoiding all USB and SD bottlenecks, ZRAM is extremely fast compared to swapping. I
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Re: Raspberry Pi is unusable as everyday computer

Mon May 06, 2019 10:16 pm

Gavinmc42 wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 9:59 am
I am going to start calling my work Win10 box HAL.
If it starts talking, it goes out the window, "I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I cannot do that".
Yours doesn't talk? :?

Every time I "fix" a friend's Win10 computer, usually by doing a clean install, it starts talking as soon as OOBE begins (Out Of Box Experience uses Cortana to assist in the initial configuration). So "HAL" = Cortana, and it's time to throw it out the window. Although I will admit, I kinda like it (it does make the initial configuration easier).

Gavinmc42 wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 10:48 am
I got a Pi Desktop case from Element14, all it is waiting for now is a mSATA SSD.
Those are getting harder to find, from any recognisable brand name, anyway. I recently got a 480GB Kingston UV500 mSATA SSD at a pretty good price from Amazon, and it's a good performer (close to my 500GB Samsung 850 EVO, which was much more expensive). I was hoping mSATA drives from major players who no longer produce them would go on sale to clear out old inventory, but the opposite seems to be happening. However, 2.5 inch SSD prices are quite nice now (cheaper than micro SD cards in capacities of 256GB and higher).
My mind is like a browser. 27 tabs are open, 9 aren't responding,
lots of pop-ups...and where is that annoying music coming from?

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Re: Raspberry Pi is unusable as everyday computer

Tue May 07, 2019 2:46 pm

HawaiianPi wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 10:16 pm
Gavinmc42 wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 9:59 am
I am going to start calling my work Win10 box HAL.
If it starts talking, it goes out the window, "I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I cannot do that".
Yours doesn't talk? :?
All my Pi's talk to me; give their 'name', Pi variant, IP address and current time when they boot-up.

That's been a huge boon when used headless, for knowing they've booted and for guiding me 'blind' through pressing the 'info/shutdown/reboot' buttons I added.

cspan
Posts: 138
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 1:03 pm
Location: Chattanooga, TN, USA

Re: Raspberry Pi is unusable as everyday computer

Tue May 07, 2019 5:34 pm

HawaiianPi wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 1:06 pm
If you have the time, could you run the Speedometer 2.0 web benchmark on your Chromebit, please? I'm curious how that performs.
https://browserbench.org/Speedometer2.0/

Here are my results from Speedometer 2.0:
  • Lenovo Legion Y520 Gaming Laptop (no special prep, multiple tabs open): 80.2
  • HP x2 Chromebook (no special prep, multiple tabs open): 61.5
  • Raspberry Pi 3B+ (rebooted a few minutes before test, only one tab): 9.25
So even under ideal conditions, the 3B+ was more than 6.5X slower than my Chromebook (with multiple tabs open, and 8X slower with 1 tab). It was more than 8.5X slower than the Win10 laptop with my normal browser workload (more than a dozen tabs open). On the older Speedometer 1.0 benchmark the gap was even wider, with the Pi scoring only 5.25, while my Chromebook and gaming laptop both topped 100 (104, 135).

Google's Octane Javascript benchmark returned a score of 2,425 for the Pi 3B+ and 24,399 for my m3 dual-core Chromebook (with the i7 quad-core gaming laptop just cracking 40K). So an order of magnitude slower than my Chromebook at Javascript. Granted, my Chromebook is a mid-tier model, but even an inexpensive Celeron or MediaTek based Chromebook should handily outperform a Pi.

The Pi is great for a lot of things (I've lost track of how many I've bought), but an "everyday computer" is not one of them. Those of you who do use a Pi as your daily driver must have far more patience than I do.
Thanks for posting these; they're the first benchmarks I've seen that enable a comparison of the Pi to my x86 stuff. I don't think there's a cpubenchmark figure for the Pi's chip(s). My computers are old, but perfectly adequate for me, and I'm not a gamer, so it was interesting to see the results as compared to yours:

2010 Dell xps7100 with AMD Phenom II x 6 on Ethernet, 6 gb RAM - browserbench Speedometer 2.0: 37.3, Octane: 15708 [Firefox]
2012 Dell Vostro 2420 with Intel Celeron B820 on ethernet, 2 GB ram: - browserbench Speedometer 2.0: 26.3, Octane: 10332 [Chromium]
Pi 3B+ on wifi, in basement (half strength wifi signal): - browserbench Speedometer 2.0: 5.2, Octane: 2427 [Chromium]
Pi 3B on wifi, neighboring room (full strength signal): - browserbench Speedometer 2.0: 5.4, Octane: 2119 [Chromium]

The discrepancy in Speedometer between the 3B and 3B+ makes me wonder if the Pi would do better on ethernet vs wifi.

There's no question that the Pi is considerably slower than even old x86 stuff. But I don't think the user necessarily experiences these vast differences as much as the number indicates. Once a web page is loaded, we often just read it, or type a reply in a box. The experience at that point isn't slow. What we may instead experience is that a page that takes longer to load. Maybe a second longer, maybe two. Of course, video is a trickier matter, though it appears possible to achieve good results with some tweaking (and maybe an external SSD).

The ad-and-tracking-supported web seems to be an ever-increasing mess, so IMO it's not entirely the Pi's fault that it doesn't shine there (wish it could). But I'd also expect some slowdown with heavy numerical work and drive (storage) search, both of which I tend to do with some regularity.

It's a good computer and I am happy to have it, even if it never serves as more than a backup machine for me. I am really happy to have RPD as an option that I can leverage on the substantial hardware of off-the-shelf machines. I can do without forced updates and telemetry, and annoying popups from my antivirus trying to upsell me.

BTW, the cpubenchmark of my Phenom vs. the Celeron is 4931 to 1506, ~3.3x as high. Interesting that its Speedometer and Octane are only about 40-50% higher. cpu isn't everything ... nor is browsing.
Last edited by cspan on Tue May 07, 2019 6:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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