AirFiero
Posts: 67
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:56 pm

What is the small partition visible to Windows?

Thu Apr 04, 2019 4:19 pm

I’m trying to understand Raspbian/Linux partitions. When looking at a Raspbian or Volumio Micro SD card in Windows, you only can see a portion of the contents of the card. The rest is not visible to Windows. So what is the small partition called that is available to Windows, and can it be used for data such as music?

fruitoftheloom
Posts: 20168
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2014 12:40 pm
Location: Delightful Dorset

Re: What is the small partition visible to Windows?

Thu Apr 04, 2019 4:24 pm

AirFiero wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 4:19 pm
I’m trying to understand Raspbian/Linux partitions. When looking at a Raspbian or Volumio Micro SD card in Windows, you only can see a portion of the contents of the card. The rest is not visible to Windows. So what is the small partition called that is available to Windows, and can it be used for data such as music?

Amazing what you find in the HELP section:

https://www.raspberrypi.org/documentati ... _folder.md

It is not advisable to use for storage....

...depending on the size of the SD Card and you did not use NoobS to install Raspbian Stretch you could I suppose create another partition on the SD Card Formatted FAT32.

Though just networking the RPi and PC could be an alternative solution ?
adieu

Asus CS10 Chromebit / HP Envy 4500 Wireless Printer / Raspberry Pi Model 2B v1.1 / RealVNC Software...

swampdog
Posts: 221
Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2015 11:22 am

Re: What is the small partition visible to Windows?

Thu Apr 04, 2019 4:33 pm

Windows can't natively see most of the sdcard. The small bit that windows can see is used to boot raspbian. The rest of the sdcard is raspbian itself and uses a linux filesystem (ext4). Windows has a nasty habit of stomping over filesystems it doesn't recognise so for the time being just assume the answer is "no, you can't put music on it".

The longer answer is "yes" but you'd not want to [complex reasons].

AirFiero
Posts: 67
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:56 pm

Re: What is the small partition visible to Windows?

Thu Apr 04, 2019 5:13 pm

swampdog wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 4:33 pm
Windows can't natively see most of the sdcard. The small bit that windows can see is used to boot raspbian. The rest of the sdcard is raspbian itself and uses a linux filesystem (ext4). Windows has a nasty habit of stomping over filesystems it doesn't recognise so for the time being just assume the answer is "no, you can't put music on it".

The longer answer is "yes" but you'd not want to [complex reasons].
Are you able to give some insight into the complex reasons?

Maybe i should explain what I’m trying to do. Using Raspbian (Stretch, or whatever is the current version), Volumio, or perhaps another music player oriented op system, I’m building a dedicated music player like an iPod. All this device needs to do is play music files. Other functions like streaming music or video are possibilities, but aren’t proirities. This is being built on an RPi Zero with iqaudio DAC and headphone amp daughter board. Those functions have been tested and seem to be working well.

I’m trying to figure out the best way to handle music storage. I got a good deal on a 512GB Micro SD card, so space isn’t an issue. And again, all this thing needs to do is be a small portable music player. It doesn’t need to surf the internet. I don’t care about security, as I don’t intend to have any important data on the device. If someone wants to hack my FLAC files, oh well.

AirFiero
Posts: 67
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:56 pm

Re: What is the small partition visible to Windows?

Thu Apr 04, 2019 5:17 pm

fruitoftheloom wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 4:24 pm
AirFiero wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 4:19 pm
I’m trying to understand Raspbian/Linux partitions. When looking at a Raspbian or Volumio Micro SD card in Windows, you only can see a portion of the contents of the card. The rest is not visible to Windows. So what is the small partition called that is available to Windows, and can it be used for data such as music?

Amazing what you find in the HELP section:

https://www.raspberrypi.org/documentati ... _folder.md

It is not advisable to use for storage....

...depending on the size of the SD Card and you did not use NoobS to install Raspbian Stretch you could I suppose create another partition on the SD Card Formatted FAT32.

Though just networking the RPi and PC could be an alternative solution ?
Thank you for your reply. I was hoping for more insight into the workings of the operating system than the FAQ lists, such as will storing data like music have some negative effect on the operation of the device, or is there a size limit to the boot partition.

Andyroo
Posts: 3791
Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2018 12:49 am
Location: Lincs U.K.

Re: What is the small partition visible to Windows?

Thu Apr 04, 2019 5:27 pm

Basically if your root partition fills your machine stops.

FAT is also not as good for fragmentation handling as EXT format drives.

If you need to write to the Pi SD card it’s a simple job to set up SAMBA on the Pi or add EXT drivers to a PC or Mac and use the main SD / disk space.
Need Pi spray - these things are breeding in my house...

AirFiero
Posts: 67
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:56 pm

Re: What is the small partition visible to Windows?

Thu Apr 04, 2019 5:31 pm

Andyroo wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 5:27 pm
Basically if your root partition fills your machine stops.

FAT is also not as good for fragmentation handling as EXT format drives.

If you need to write to the Pi SD card it’s a simple job to set up SAMBA on the Pi or add EXT drivers to a PC or Mac and use the main SD / disk space.
So does the root partition utilize a type of disk caching, like Windows swap file? Can you use a partition manager to expand the size of the root? A 512 SD has plenty of room to allocate space to whatever partition needs particular space. I have a partition manager, I forget the name.

AirFiero
Posts: 67
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:56 pm

Re: What is the small partition visible to Windows?

Thu Apr 04, 2019 5:33 pm

FYI, I have a previous discussion about partitions, with details about my project, here...

Large partition sizes, Raspbian and Windows
viewtopic.php?f=66&t=235522&p=1440656#p1440656

User avatar
B.Goode
Posts: 8049
Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2014 4:03 pm
Location: UK

Re: What is the small partition visible to Windows?

Thu Apr 04, 2019 5:36 pm

will storing data like music have some negative effect on the operation of the device, or is there a size limit to the boot partition.

Yes, there is a size limit. It is a FAT32 partition so has a maximum drive size of 2TB. Its maximum file size is 4GB.

One reason for not using the /boot partition for storage is simply this: when the RPi is powered up it is that partition that is accessed to load the file needed to start an Operating System. If that partition or its contents gets corrupted your RPi becomes unbootable via that card, and any work in progress, configuration, or historical data stored elsewhere on the main Linux filesystem becomes 'marooned'.

So not accessing the /boot partition or its contents, other than to the extent needed to boot the system, is simply an act of self-preservation.

A network share, or a removable usb mass storage device, are far safer ways of moving data to/from your RPi.

But at the end of the day it is your system and you are free to implement whatever ingenious scheme you choose to render it unstable...

User avatar
B.Goode
Posts: 8049
Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2014 4:03 pm
Location: UK

Re: What is the small partition visible to Windows?

Thu Apr 04, 2019 5:42 pm

AirFiero wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 5:33 pm
FYI, I have a previous discussion about partitions, with details about my project, here...

Large partition sizes, Raspbian and Windows
viewtopic.php?f=66&t=235522&p=1440656#p1440656

I for one feel my time as a volunteer is disrespected by re-hashing a previous discussion without reference to it.

Much of my reply simply repeats what has been said there, to no additional benefit.

Don't expect any further input from me.

AirFiero
Posts: 67
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:56 pm

Re: What is the small partition visible to Windows?

Thu Apr 04, 2019 6:06 pm

B.Goode wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 5:42 pm
AirFiero wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 5:33 pm
FYI, I have a previous discussion about partitions, with details about my project, here...

Large partition sizes, Raspbian and Windows
viewtopic.php?f=66&t=235522&p=1440656#p1440656

I for one feel my time as a volunteer is disrespected by re-hashing a previous discussion without reference to it.

Much of my reply simply repeats what has been said there, to no additional benefit.

Don't expect any further input from me.
I'm sorry you feel that way. I started this discussion to learn more about what I now know is the "boot partition" and any limitations and potential problems with utilizing it for data. I linked the previous discussion in order to reference the scope of my project, including pictures of the components, and to show what had already been discussed re: *other* partitions and methods for accessing those partitions. All for the sake of completeness, if not allowing others to retrace my steps.

My apologies if you felt your efforts weren't appreciated, which the certainly were. I've taken notes and am reviewing the previous aforementioned thread. I have a LOT to learn in doing this project, perhaps knowledge that well versed folks like you might take for granted. For me, I'm drinking from a hardware and Linux operating system fire hose, so your patience is appreciated.

swampdog
Posts: 221
Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2015 11:22 am

Re: What is the small partition visible to Windows?

Thu Apr 04, 2019 7:44 pm

Are you able to give some insight into the complex reasons?

Maybe i should explain what I’m trying to do. Using Raspbian (Stretch, or whatever is the current version), Volumio, or perhaps another music player oriented op system, I’m building a dedicated music player like an iPod. All this device needs to do is play music files. Other functions like streaming music or video are possibilities, but aren’t proirities. This is being built on an RPi Zero with iqaudio DAC and headphone amp daughter board. Those functions have been tested and seem to be working well.

I’m trying to figure out the best way to handle music storage. I got a good deal on a 512GB Micro SD card, so space isn’t an issue. And again, all this thing needs to do is be a small portable music player. It doesn’t need to surf the internet. I don’t care about security, as I don’t intend to have any important data on the device. If someone wants to hack my FLAC files, oh well.
I think the easiest way for you to proceed is to grab a bootable live linux (eg: linux mint mate) cd/usb and boot that on your windows box. It won't touch windows unless you click the "install" icon. Next bit will if you mess it up: run 'gparted' off the live media and make darned sure you're looking at the sdcard and not any other disks in the PC else it'll be "bye-bye windows". Warning aside..

..you'll see that raspian boot partition plus an ext4 one after it. If the sdcard has been in the rpi the ext4 will likely be taking up all the space. Use gparted to resize it down to a sensible size (16Gb). You may have to unmount the sdcard first - I don't recall if the mint live media automounts or not. Use "lsblk" to figure out what's going on (open a terminal). This is where it gets complex because you have to figure it out - usb devices move about. Just because it's (say) /dev/sdb now (and you posted for help on that basis) doesn't mean it will be when you go retry. eg: the PC I'm sat in front of:

Code: Select all

[email protected] /kvm $ lsblk
NAME            MAJ:MIN RM   SIZE RO TYPE  MOUNTPOINT
sdd               8:48   1 119.3G  0 disk  
└─sdd1            8:49   1 119.3G  0 part  /media/foo/K128
sdb               8:16   0 465.8G  0 disk  
├─sdb2            8:18   0 232.4G  0 part  
│ └─md1           9:1    0 232.4G  0 raid1 
│   ├─vg00-lv06 253:1    0    20G  0 lvm   /usr
│   ├─vg00-lv07 253:10   0    32G  0 lvm   /wrk
│   ├─vg00-AL   253:17   0    66G  0 lvm   /kvm/al
│   ├─vg00-lv08 253:15   0    64G  0 lvm   /home/foo
│   ├─vg00-lv03 253:13   0     4G  0 lvm   /opt
│   ├─vg00-lv04 253:11   0    16G  0 lvm   /usr/local
│   ├─vg00-lv05 253:0    0     7G  0 lvm   /
│   ├─vg00-lv00 253:16   0     8G  0 lvm   [SWAP]
│   ├─vg00-lv01 253:14   0     2G  0 lvm   /tmp
│   └─vg00-lv02 253:12   0     5G  0 lvm   /var
├─sdb3            8:19   0 232.9G  0 part  
│ ├─vg01-U1604  253:6    0    64G  0 lvm   /kvm/u1604
│ ├─vg01-std    253:4    0    48G  0 lvm   /kvm/std
│ ├─vg01-kvm    253:2    0    64G  0 lvm   /kvm
│ ├─vg01-netdev 253:5    0     4M  0 lvm   
│ └─vg01-steam  253:3    0    32G  0 lvm   /home/foo/.local/share/Steam
└─sdb1            8:17   0   512M  0 part  
  └─md0           9:0    0   512M  0 raid1 
    └─md0p1     259:0    0   510M  0 md    /boot
sr0              11:0    1  1024M  0 rom   
sdc               8:32   0 465.8G  0 disk  
├─sdc2            8:34   0 232.4G  0 part  
│ └─md1           9:1    0 232.4G  0 raid1 
│   ├─vg00-lv06 253:1    0    20G  0 lvm   /usr
│   ├─vg00-lv07 253:10   0    32G  0 lvm   /wrk
│   ├─vg00-AL   253:17   0    66G  0 lvm   /kvm/al
│   ├─vg00-lv08 253:15   0    64G  0 lvm   /home/foo
│   ├─vg00-lv03 253:13   0     4G  0 lvm   /opt
│   ├─vg00-lv04 253:11   0    16G  0 lvm   /usr/local
│   ├─vg00-lv05 253:0    0     7G  0 lvm   /
│   ├─vg00-lv00 253:16   0     8G  0 lvm   [SWAP]
│   ├─vg00-lv01 253:14   0     2G  0 lvm   /tmp
│   └─vg00-lv02 253:12   0     5G  0 lvm   /var
├─sdc3            8:35   0 232.9G  0 part  
│ ├─vg01-OBJ    253:8    0   128G  0 lvm   /mnt/obj
│ ├─vg01-QT_DBG 253:9    0    16G  0 lvm   /usr/local/QT/5.12.1-dbg
│ └─vg01-U1804  253:7    0    20G  0 lvm   /kvm/u1804
└─sdc1            8:33   0   512M  0 part  
  └─md0           9:0    0   512M  0 raid1 
    └─md0p1     259:0    0   510M  0 md    /boot
sda               8:0    0 465.8G  0 disk  
├─sda2            8:2    0    96G  0 part  
├─sda5            8:5    0 178.2G  0 part  
├─sda3            8:3    0     1K  0 part  
└─sda1            8:1    0   100M  0 part
The above is a dual boot linux/win7 box with three hard disks. The win7 disk is /dev/sda..

Code: Select all

[email protected] /kvm $ sudo parted /dev/sda print
Model: ATA ST500DM002-1BD14 (scsi)
Disk /dev/sda: 500GB
Sector size (logical/physical): 512B/4096B
Partition Table: msdos
Disk Flags: 

Number  Start   End    Size   Type      File system  Flags
 1      1049kB  106MB  105MB  primary   ntfs         boot
 2      106MB   103GB  103GB  primary   ntfs
 3      103GB   500GB  397GB  extended
 5      103GB   295GB  191GB  logical   ntfs
The /dev/sdb and /dev/sdc disks are linux raid and lvm..

Code: Select all

[email protected] /kvm $ sudo parted /dev/sdb print
Model: ATA WDC WD5000AAKX-0 (scsi)
Disk /dev/sdb: 500GB
Sector size (logical/physical): 512B/512B
Partition Table: msdos
Disk Flags: 

Number  Start   End    Size   Type     File system  Flags
 1      1049kB  538MB  537MB  primary  ext4         boot
 2      538MB   250GB  250GB  primary               raid
 3      250GB   500GB  250GB  primary               lvm

[email protected] /kvm $ sudo parted /dev/sdc print
Model: ATA WDC WD5000AAKX-0 (scsi)
Disk /dev/sdc: 500GB
Sector size (logical/physical): 512B/512B
Partition Table: msdos
Disk Flags: 

Number  Start   End    Size   Type     File system  Flags
 1      1049kB  538MB  537MB  primary  ext4         boot, raid
 2      538MB   250GB  250GB  primary               raid
 3      250GB   500GB  250GB  primary               lvm
Having ascertained which disks not to touch that leaves /dev/sdd which in my case happens to be a 128G usb stick I'm writing music onto for my car..

Code: Select all

[email protected] /kvm $ sudo parted /dev/sdd print
Model: SanDisk Cruzer Blade (scsi)
Disk /dev/sdd: 128GB
Sector size (logical/physical): 512B/512B
Partition Table: msdos
Disk Flags: 

Number  Start   End    Size   Type     File system  Flags
 1      16.4kB  128GB  128GB  primary  fat32        lba
..and 'lsblk' told me it is mounted. If I unmount / safely eject it, and reinsert it, it'll likely come back as another device and it'll need hunting down again (it's actually easier to look in "syslog" but you need to know what to ignore).

Anyway, having shrunk the raspian partition you can now create a third primary partition for your music. It's likely windows will see that third partition if you format it fat32 or ntfs with gparted but "ext4" would be your best bet because as you now have a live linux media you can mount your windows partition readonly and copy the data or much easier & less risky put the sdcard back in the rpi, add an entry into /etc/fstab and "scp" the music across.

Well, you did ask!

Actually, what I'd do is worry about the problem another time. Ignore all the above, let raspian expand the sdcard and just create a folder for your music.

Code: Select all

[email protected] $ sudo mkdir /music
[email protected] $ sudo chmod 01777 /music
Then use PuTTY on windows to "scp" the music across. The only reason to bother with the complexities I outlined earlier is to cater for the situation where you fill the raspian filesystem up.

fruitoftheloom
Posts: 20168
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2014 12:40 pm
Location: Delightful Dorset

Re: What is the small partition visible to Windows?

Thu Apr 04, 2019 7:53 pm

swampdog wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 7:44 pm
Are you able to give some insight into the complex reasons?

Maybe i should explain what I’m trying to do. Using Raspbian (Stretch, or whatever is the current version), Volumio, or perhaps another music player oriented op system, I’m building a dedicated music player like an iPod. All this device needs to do is play music files. Other functions like streaming music or video are possibilities, but aren’t proirities. This is being built on an RPi Zero with iqaudio DAC and headphone amp daughter board. Those functions have been tested and seem to be working well.

I’m trying to figure out the best way to handle music storage. I got a good deal on a 512GB Micro SD card, so space isn’t an issue. And again, all this thing needs to do is be a small portable music player. It doesn’t need to surf the internet. I don’t care about security, as I don’t intend to have any important data on the device. If someone wants to hack my FLAC files, oh well.
I think the easiest way for you to proceed is to grab a bootable live linux (eg: linux mint mate) cd/usb and boot that on your windows box. It won't touch windows unless you click the "install" icon. Next bit will if you mess it up: run 'gparted' off the live media and make darned sure you're looking at the sdcard and not any other disks in the PC else it'll be "bye-bye windows". Warning aside..

..you'll see that raspian boot partition plus an ext4 one after it. If the sdcard has been in the rpi the ext4 will likely be taking up all the space. Use gparted to resize it down to a sensible size (16Gb). You may have to unmount the sdcard first - I don't recall if the mint live media automounts or not. Use "lsblk" to figure out what's going on (open a terminal). This is where it gets complex because you have to figure it out - usb devices move about. Just because it's (say) /dev/sdb now (and you posted for help on that basis) doesn't mean it will be when you go retry. eg: the PC I'm sat in front of:

Code: Select all

[email protected] /kvm $ lsblk
NAME            MAJ:MIN RM   SIZE RO TYPE  MOUNTPOINT
sdd               8:48   1 119.3G  0 disk  
└─sdd1            8:49   1 119.3G  0 part  /media/foo/K128
sdb               8:16   0 465.8G  0 disk  
├─sdb2            8:18   0 232.4G  0 part  
│ └─md1           9:1    0 232.4G  0 raid1 
│   ├─vg00-lv06 253:1    0    20G  0 lvm   /usr
│   ├─vg00-lv07 253:10   0    32G  0 lvm   /wrk
│   ├─vg00-AL   253:17   0    66G  0 lvm   /kvm/al
│   ├─vg00-lv08 253:15   0    64G  0 lvm   /home/foo
│   ├─vg00-lv03 253:13   0     4G  0 lvm   /opt
│   ├─vg00-lv04 253:11   0    16G  0 lvm   /usr/local
│   ├─vg00-lv05 253:0    0     7G  0 lvm   /
│   ├─vg00-lv00 253:16   0     8G  0 lvm   [SWAP]
│   ├─vg00-lv01 253:14   0     2G  0 lvm   /tmp
│   └─vg00-lv02 253:12   0     5G  0 lvm   /var
├─sdb3            8:19   0 232.9G  0 part  
│ ├─vg01-U1604  253:6    0    64G  0 lvm   /kvm/u1604
│ ├─vg01-std    253:4    0    48G  0 lvm   /kvm/std
│ ├─vg01-kvm    253:2    0    64G  0 lvm   /kvm
│ ├─vg01-netdev 253:5    0     4M  0 lvm   
│ └─vg01-steam  253:3    0    32G  0 lvm   /home/foo/.local/share/Steam
└─sdb1            8:17   0   512M  0 part  
  └─md0           9:0    0   512M  0 raid1 
    └─md0p1     259:0    0   510M  0 md    /boot
sr0              11:0    1  1024M  0 rom   
sdc               8:32   0 465.8G  0 disk  
├─sdc2            8:34   0 232.4G  0 part  
│ └─md1           9:1    0 232.4G  0 raid1 
│   ├─vg00-lv06 253:1    0    20G  0 lvm   /usr
│   ├─vg00-lv07 253:10   0    32G  0 lvm   /wrk
│   ├─vg00-AL   253:17   0    66G  0 lvm   /kvm/al
│   ├─vg00-lv08 253:15   0    64G  0 lvm   /home/foo
│   ├─vg00-lv03 253:13   0     4G  0 lvm   /opt
│   ├─vg00-lv04 253:11   0    16G  0 lvm   /usr/local
│   ├─vg00-lv05 253:0    0     7G  0 lvm   /
│   ├─vg00-lv00 253:16   0     8G  0 lvm   [SWAP]
│   ├─vg00-lv01 253:14   0     2G  0 lvm   /tmp
│   └─vg00-lv02 253:12   0     5G  0 lvm   /var
├─sdc3            8:35   0 232.9G  0 part  
│ ├─vg01-OBJ    253:8    0   128G  0 lvm   /mnt/obj
│ ├─vg01-QT_DBG 253:9    0    16G  0 lvm   /usr/local/QT/5.12.1-dbg
│ └─vg01-U1804  253:7    0    20G  0 lvm   /kvm/u1804
└─sdc1            8:33   0   512M  0 part  
  └─md0           9:0    0   512M  0 raid1 
    └─md0p1     259:0    0   510M  0 md    /boot
sda               8:0    0 465.8G  0 disk  
├─sda2            8:2    0    96G  0 part  
├─sda5            8:5    0 178.2G  0 part  
├─sda3            8:3    0     1K  0 part  
└─sda1            8:1    0   100M  0 part
The above is a dual boot linux/win7 box with three hard disks. The win7 disk is /dev/sda..

Code: Select all

[email protected] /kvm $ sudo parted /dev/sda print
Model: ATA ST500DM002-1BD14 (scsi)
Disk /dev/sda: 500GB
Sector size (logical/physical): 512B/4096B
Partition Table: msdos
Disk Flags: 

Number  Start   End    Size   Type      File system  Flags
 1      1049kB  106MB  105MB  primary   ntfs         boot
 2      106MB   103GB  103GB  primary   ntfs
 3      103GB   500GB  397GB  extended
 5      103GB   295GB  191GB  logical   ntfs
The /dev/sdb and /dev/sdc disks are linux raid and lvm..

Code: Select all

[email protected] /kvm $ sudo parted /dev/sdb print
Model: ATA WDC WD5000AAKX-0 (scsi)
Disk /dev/sdb: 500GB
Sector size (logical/physical): 512B/512B
Partition Table: msdos
Disk Flags: 

Number  Start   End    Size   Type     File system  Flags
 1      1049kB  538MB  537MB  primary  ext4         boot
 2      538MB   250GB  250GB  primary               raid
 3      250GB   500GB  250GB  primary               lvm

[email protected] /kvm $ sudo parted /dev/sdc print
Model: ATA WDC WD5000AAKX-0 (scsi)
Disk /dev/sdc: 500GB
Sector size (logical/physical): 512B/512B
Partition Table: msdos
Disk Flags: 

Number  Start   End    Size   Type     File system  Flags
 1      1049kB  538MB  537MB  primary  ext4         boot, raid
 2      538MB   250GB  250GB  primary               raid
 3      250GB   500GB  250GB  primary               lvm
Having ascertained which disks not to touch that leaves /dev/sdd which in my case happens to be a 128G usb stick I'm writing music onto for my car..

Code: Select all

[email protected] /kvm $ sudo parted /dev/sdd print
Model: SanDisk Cruzer Blade (scsi)
Disk /dev/sdd: 128GB
Sector size (logical/physical): 512B/512B
Partition Table: msdos
Disk Flags: 

Number  Start   End    Size   Type     File system  Flags
 1      16.4kB  128GB  128GB  primary  fat32        lba
..and 'lsblk' told me it is mounted. If I unmount / safely eject it, and reinsert it, it'll likely come back as another device and it'll need hunting down again (it's actually easier to look in "syslog" but you need to know what to ignore).

Anyway, having shrunk the raspian partition you can now create a third primary partition for your music. It's likely windows will see that third partition if you format it fat32 or ntfs with gparted but "ext4" would be your best bet because as you now have a live linux media you can mount your windows partition readonly and copy the data or much easier & less risky put the sdcard back in the rpi, add an entry into /etc/fstab and "scp" the music across.

Well, you did ask!

Actually, what I'd do is worry about the problem another time. Ignore all the above, let raspian expand the sdcard and just create a folder for your music.

Code: Select all

[email protected] $ sudo mkdir /music
[email protected] $ sudo chmod 01777 /music
Then use PuTTY on windows to "scp" the music across. The only reason to bother with the complexities I outlined earlier is to cater for the situation where you fill the raspian filesystem up.

Please be aware if NoobS / PiNN has been used to install an Operating System then the partition scheme is different:

https://github.com/raspberrypi/noobs/wi ... -explained
adieu

Asus CS10 Chromebit / HP Envy 4500 Wireless Printer / Raspberry Pi Model 2B v1.1 / RealVNC Software...

fruitoftheloom
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Re: What is the small partition visible to Windows?

Thu Apr 04, 2019 7:57 pm

Just realised you have another post running, how confusing:

viewtopic.php?f=66&t=235522&start=25
adieu

Asus CS10 Chromebit / HP Envy 4500 Wireless Printer / Raspberry Pi Model 2B v1.1 / RealVNC Software...

AirFiero
Posts: 67
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:56 pm

Re: What is the small partition visible to Windows?

Thu Apr 04, 2019 8:22 pm

fruitoftheloom wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 7:57 pm
Just realised you have another post running, how confusing:

viewtopic.php?f=66&t=235522&start=25
Sorry for the confusion. This thread was asking about the /boot partition. The other is where I've been discussing the other partitions, and included more project information and pictures.

Some forums want you to strictly divide subjects. This one seems to want you to put everything together.

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HawaiianPi
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Re: What is the small partition visible to Windows?

Thu Apr 04, 2019 8:48 pm

AirFiero wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 8:22 pm
Sorry for the confusion. This thread was asking about the /boot partition. The other is where I've been discussing the other partitions, and included more project information and pictures.

Some forums want you to strictly divide subjects. This one seems to want you to put everything together.
Actually, this is pretty much the same thing we've already gone over in that other thread (you want to expand the boot partition and use it for music, against the advice of everyone there). You were already told that using the SD card "boot" partition was not a good idea, and that network shares are a better solution (and that Volumio has a network share). Now you're here, and seem to be asking the same thing.

But if you really want to know more about the "boot" partition...

The System on Chip (SoC) used in the Raspberry Pi computers is basically a GPU with an ARM processor added on. The GPU boots the system, and it can only read FAT filesystems (FAT/FAT16/FAT32). So the boot partition must be formatted with a FAT filesystem or the Pi can't boot (the GPU won't be able to access the needed files).

The FAT filesystem itself is rather primitive and has some serious limitations, so it's not a good option for the actual operating system. Linux operating systems support a wide variety of filesystems, but the most commonly used is ext4 (which is a much more sophisticated filesystem than anything Microsoft Windows is using).

The Raspbian disk images are divided into 2 partitions (more if you install with NOOBS). The "boot" partition doesn't need to hold much, so it's tiny, and the larger ext4 partition is expanded to fill the rest of the card when Raspbian first boots. This allows the Raspbian OS access to over 99% of the storage (on an 8GB card), while also allowing the GPU to boot the system.

If you want to know more about why storing music in the boot partition is a bad idea, just look up the limitations of the FAT filesystem, and ask yourself if you really want to do a lot of file writing to such a primitive filesystem, when it contains the critical boot files (and network shares are just easier). But go ahead and mess with your boot partition, since you seem determined to do that anyway, no matter what we say.
My mind is like a browser. 27 tabs are open, 9 aren't responding,
lots of pop-ups...and where is that annoying music coming from?

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mahjongg
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Re: What is the small partition visible to Windows?

Thu Apr 04, 2019 9:33 pm

This forum doesn't want you to ask the same question TWICE, you can now see what happens when you do that.
Normally we quickly delete the copy, but unfortunately I wasn't aware of it before, and I cannot decide now which one is the copy, and which one is the original, as both are too long, and divergent. so I won't delete anything. Please cope with the situation you have created yourself... :mrgreen:

AirFiero
Posts: 67
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:56 pm

Re: What is the small partition visible to Windows?

Thu Apr 04, 2019 9:37 pm

mahjongg wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 9:33 pm
This forum doesn't want you to ask the same question TWICE, you can now see what happens when you do that.
Normally we quickly delete the copy, but unfortunately I wasn't aware of it before, and I cannot decide now which one is the copy, and which one is the original, as both are too long, and divergent. so I won't delete anything. Please cope with the situation you have created yourself... :mrgreen:
My apologies. My intention was that this thread would be about the /boot partition. It diverged slightly. Since my basic question was answered, how about if I stick to my other thread?

AirFiero
Posts: 67
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:56 pm

Re: What is the small partition visible to Windows?

Thu Apr 04, 2019 9:40 pm

HawaiianPi wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 8:48 pm
AirFiero wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 8:22 pm
Sorry for the confusion. This thread was asking about the /boot partition. The other is where I've been discussing the other partitions, and included more project information and pictures.

Some forums want you to strictly divide subjects. This one seems to want you to put everything together.
Actually, this is pretty much the same thing we've already gone over in that other thread (you want to expand the boot partition and use it for music, against the advice of everyone there). You were already told that using the SD card "boot" partition was not a good idea, and that network shares are a better solution (and that Volumio has a network share). Now you're here, and seem to be asking the same thing.

But if you really want to know more about the "boot" partition...

The System on Chip (SoC) used in the Raspberry Pi computers is basically a GPU with an ARM processor added on. The GPU boots the system, and it can only read FAT filesystems (FAT/FAT16/FAT32). So the boot partition must be formatted with a FAT filesystem or the Pi can't boot (the GPU won't be able to access the needed files).

The FAT filesystem itself is rather primitive and has some serious limitations, so it's not a good option for the actual operating system. Linux operating systems support a wide variety of filesystems, but the most commonly used is ext4 (which is a much more sophisticated filesystem than anything Microsoft Windows is using).

The Raspbian disk images are divided into 2 partitions (more if you install with NOOBS). The "boot" partition doesn't need to hold much, so it's tiny, and the larger ext4 partition is expanded to fill the rest of the card when Raspbian first boots. This allows the Raspbian OS access to over 99% of the storage (on an 8GB card), while also allowing the GPU to boot the system.

If you want to know more about why storing music in the boot partition is a bad idea, just look up the limitations of the FAT filesystem, and ask yourself if you really want to do a lot of file writing to such a primitive filesystem, when it contains the critical boot files (and network shares are just easier). But go ahead and mess with your boot partition, since you seem determined to do that anyway, no matter what we say.
Sigh

I am obviously irritating everyone here. I'll stop asking questions.

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HawaiianPi
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Re: What is the small partition visible to Windows?

Fri Apr 05, 2019 3:07 am

AirFiero wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 9:40 pm
Sigh

I am obviously irritating everyone here. I'll stop asking questions.
Asking questions is not the problem. Asking the same question multiple times in different ways and hoping for a different answer is.

I apologize if I've misunderstood the situation, but this is how I perceive it. You asked about using the boot partition for music and were advised against it. You didn't like that answer, so you re-worded your question, trying to get an answer you liked (hoping someone would approve using the boot partition as storage). That didn't work either, and now you're frustrated.

It wasn't our intention to upset you. We really are a friendly group here (much more so than many other forums I participate on), but no one here gets paid for their time. This forum is run by volunteers who take time out of their busy lives to try and help others, and it gets frustrating for us when people ask for help and then dismiss our advice. This thread resulted in some "less than friendly" replies, and for my part in that, I'm sorry.

Sometimes these things happen and it's best to not take it too personally. We are a diverse group from different countries with different time zones and languages, and some of us are just grumpy when we haven't had enough sleep or coffee (like that guy holding the bunny next to this message). Please keep asking questions, because the Raspberry Pi is all about education and learning.
My mind is like a browser. 27 tabs are open, 9 aren't responding,
lots of pop-ups...and where is that annoying music coming from?

fruitoftheloom
Posts: 20168
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2014 12:40 pm
Location: Delightful Dorset

Re: What is the small partition visible to Windows?

Fri Apr 05, 2019 7:23 am

AirFiero wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 9:40 pm
HawaiianPi wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 8:48 pm
AirFiero wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 8:22 pm
Sorry for the confusion. This thread was asking about the /boot partition. The other is where I've been discussing the other partitions, and included more project information and pictures.

Some forums want you to strictly divide subjects. This one seems to want you to put everything together.
Actually, this is pretty much the same thing we've already gone over in that other thread (you want to expand the boot partition and use it for music, against the advice of everyone there). You were already told that using the SD card "boot" partition was not a good idea, and that network shares are a better solution (and that Volumio has a network share). Now you're here, and seem to be asking the same thing.

But if you really want to know more about the "boot" partition...

The System on Chip (SoC) used in the Raspberry Pi computers is basically a GPU with an ARM processor added on. The GPU boots the system, and it can only read FAT filesystems (FAT/FAT16/FAT32). So the boot partition must be formatted with a FAT filesystem or the Pi can't boot (the GPU won't be able to access the needed files).

The FAT filesystem itself is rather primitive and has some serious limitations, so it's not a good option for the actual operating system. Linux operating systems support a wide variety of filesystems, but the most commonly used is ext4 (which is a much more sophisticated filesystem than anything Microsoft Windows is using).

The Raspbian disk images are divided into 2 partitions (more if you install with NOOBS). The "boot" partition doesn't need to hold much, so it's tiny, and the larger ext4 partition is expanded to fill the rest of the card when Raspbian first boots. This allows the Raspbian OS access to over 99% of the storage (on an 8GB card), while also allowing the GPU to boot the system.

If you want to know more about why storing music in the boot partition is a bad idea, just look up the limitations of the FAT filesystem, and ask yourself if you really want to do a lot of file writing to such a primitive filesystem, when it contains the critical boot files (and network shares are just easier). But go ahead and mess with your boot partition, since you seem determined to do that anyway, no matter what we say.
Sigh

I am obviously irritating everyone here. I'll stop asking questions.

You now have lots of information to digest, so it is now time for your good self to make a decision, one size does not fit all :D
adieu

Asus CS10 Chromebit / HP Envy 4500 Wireless Printer / Raspberry Pi Model 2B v1.1 / RealVNC Software...

AirFiero
Posts: 67
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:56 pm

Re: What is the small partition visible to Windows?

Wed Apr 10, 2019 10:40 pm

HawaiianPi wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 3:07 am
AirFiero wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 9:40 pm
Sigh

I am obviously irritating everyone here. I'll stop asking questions.
Asking questions is not the problem. Asking the same question multiple times in different ways and hoping for a different answer is.

I apologize if I've misunderstood the situation, but this is how I perceive it. You asked about using the boot partition for music and were advised against it. You didn't like that answer, so you re-worded your question, trying to get an answer you liked (hoping someone would approve using the boot partition as storage). That didn't work either, and now you're frustrated.
I wasn't going to bother returning and responding, but I was checking through all the information presented to see if I missed something. You gave a very pleasant follow up, which is appreciated, so I'll respond.

It might seem like I'm asking the same questions, but please hear me out. I understand that there are certain ways things are done in environments like Linux. There are good reasons for it, I get that. I'm trying to do something somewhat unique and different here, and I often stretch limits and use "out of the box" methods to get to these new places. (You should see some of the emergency mechanical repairs I've made to things to get them to work. ;) I'm moderately
well versed in computers, but I'm a better mechanic/technician.)

I'm trying to create basically a one-purpose device...play music files, be portable. Like an iPod, but with newer tech.
It wasn't our intention to upset you. We really are a friendly group here (much more so than many other forums I participate on), but no one here gets paid for their time. This forum is run by volunteers who take time out of their busy lives to try and help others, and it gets frustrating for us when people ask for help and then dismiss our advice. This thread resulted in some "less than friendly" replies, and for my part in that, I'm sorry.
Thank you. If I came across in a negative or combative way, I too apologize. Not intended. Maybe sometimes frustrated. I'm more of a hardware guy trying like hell to learn a not-always-easy-to-learn operating system.
Sometimes these things happen and it's best to not take it too personally. We are a diverse group from different countries with different time zones and languages, and some of us are just grumpy when we haven't had enough sleep or coffee (like that guy holding the bunny next to this message). Please keep asking questions, because the Raspberry Pi is all about education and learning.
My hope has been that things I'm discovering new applications for Pi computers that would benefit others. Maybe someone will be able to make their own portable player, maybe even make it better.

As for progress...several setbacks.

1. Neither iqaudio card seems to be working. They worked briefly, but now no sound. Not to disparage iqaudio, it's possible I could have caused them to fail. Perhaps not careful enough with static electricity or something.

I did the commenting out of basic Pi sound using "#dtparam=audio=on" line of config.txt. This is supposed to turn off the basic sound on the Pi board and allow the iqaudio board to take over sound. Now there is no sound on either platform (Raspbian + RPi 3B+ or PiZero). This is an iqaudio thing, and will research there.

2. I tried using gparted to resize the volumio_data partition on the Volumio op system card, and gparted wouldn't change the partition size. It gives a minimum and maximum size that is the same (say, 52342MiB for both vaulues). If you change the number and click on the next menu item, it changes the value back. So I wasn't able to attempt to create an NTFS partition using gparted. This may be a Volumio thing, Linux permissions thing, or might need to be done prior to Volumio doing the automatic resizing of partitions. I'll inquire at Volumio.

FYI, I was attempting this using my RPi 3B+ test computer, using gparted in the Raspbian GUI.

3. I tried to copy the "Music" directory from one SD to another using the GUI, and gave a permission error. I'll need to figure out if it is possible to do that from GUI or if I need to use "sudo ..." on the command line.

So I am at a stopping point. I'll do some reading up on this. Duck Duck Go search time... ;)

AirFiero
Posts: 67
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:56 pm

Re: What is the small partition visible to Windows?

Wed Apr 10, 2019 11:19 pm

Oh, I will take your advice and not use the /boot directory. I just need to resolve the issue of resizing the ext partition to NTFS for Windows use. I'll look it up.

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HawaiianPi
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Location: Aloha, Oregon USA

Re: What is the small partition visible to Windows?

Wed Apr 10, 2019 11:36 pm

To resize a partition you need to make room for it. In other words, you must shrink adjacent partitions to create some free space, then expand the desired partition into that free space. You may also need to install additional file systems to deal with Windows partitions (sudo apt install exfat-fuse exfat-utils ntfs-3g).

To use the GUI to copy files with root permissions, launch it from the terminal with gksudo pcmanfm.

You can add a Root File Manager entry to the Raspbian menu.

Menu > Preferences > Main Menu Editor
Click on Accessories, then new item and fill out as follows:
Image

You should also see an entry for a Root Terminal that is not enabled, so I enabled that while I was in there.

And here are a couple of custom icons I made for them (matching the Pixel/RPi Desktop style icons).
Image Image
Grab those pics and click on the default icon in the corner of the box you edit when creating the root file manager menu entry (also located in properties when editing the menu), then select your desired picture.

Now, whenever you see something that tells you to edit a file outside your home folder, like /boot/config.txt, you can launch the root file manager, navigate to the file and double-click on it to open it in r/w mode.

*** Using this improperly will will break your system! ***
Don't use this on files in your user's home directory.
My mind is like a browser. 27 tabs are open, 9 aren't responding,
lots of pop-ups...and where is that annoying music coming from?

AirFiero
Posts: 67
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:56 pm

Re: What is the small partition visible to Windows?

Thu Apr 11, 2019 1:16 am

HawaiianPi wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 11:36 pm
To resize a partition you need to make room for it. In other words, you must shrink adjacent partitions to create some free space, then expand the desired partition into that free space. You may also need to install additional file systems to deal with Windows partitions (sudo apt install exfat-fuse exfat-utils ntfs-3g).
I believe that's what I was attempting with gparted. It wouldn't let me change the partition size. Next time I boot up the Pi, I'll list what the partition info says.

I'll also try the editor next time I boot the Pi. Thanks.

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