NitinValeo
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Arm A53 AArch64 Support

Mon Jan 28, 2019 6:52 am

Which Raspberry Pi board support ARM v8A (AArch64) Architecture, is there any board with core as ARM A53 and AArch64 support.

fruitoftheloom
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Re: Arm A53 AArch64 Support

Mon Jan 28, 2019 9:28 am

NitinValeo wrote:
Mon Jan 28, 2019 6:52 am
Which Raspberry Pi board support ARM v8A (AArch64) Architecture, is there any board with core as ARM A53 and AArch64 support.

The Raspberry Pi 2B v1.2 / 3B / 3B+ / 3A+ SBCs, all use the BCM2837 Cortex-A53 (ARMv8) 64-bit SoC.

Though there is no Official AArch64 Operating Systems, there are several Community Supported available......
Retired disgracefully.....
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NitinValeo
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Re: Arm A53 AArch64 Support

Tue Jan 29, 2019 7:41 am

According to the link below from ARM, it says "The only real drawback is the current user space of Raspbian is AArch32 and not AArch64."

https://community.arm.com/tools/b/blog/ ... 1546423942

Raspbian doesn't support AArch64, can we get support to install AArch64 kernel in the raspberry pi board?

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Gavinmc42
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Re: Arm A53 AArch64 Support

Tue Jan 29, 2019 7:55 am

What sort of support do you need?
Just grab the img file and write it to a uSDcard
https://github.com/sakaki-/gentoo-on-rpi3-64bit

There are other distributions now, but I am happy with the Gentoo64 version.
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jahboater
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Re: Arm A53 AArch64 Support

Tue Jan 29, 2019 8:15 am

Gavinmc42 wrote:
Tue Jan 29, 2019 7:55 am
There are other distributions now, but I am happy with the Gentoo64 version.
Yes. I like it too.
It is very fast!

See Sakaki's recent post:
https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/view ... 3&t=232417

code_exec
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Re: Arm A53 AArch64 Support

Thu Jan 31, 2019 9:20 pm

There are 64-bit OSes available for the Pi 3 (and the Pi 2 v1.2 which uses the same SoC as the 3B). I have not tried Gentoo64 because I have no spare microSD cards or USB sticks large enough, but those who have tried it have reported good performance.

I've made my own Debian and Ubuntu ARM64 images in the past. In fact, I'm currently working on a Debian image which uses u-boot, GRUB2, and the generic ARM64 kernel to boot.

Here are my Ubuntu images which use the linux-raspi2 kernel: https://github.com/CodeExecution/Ubuntu-ARM64-RPi

Here are my Debian images which use the Raspbian kernel compiled for ARM64: https://github.com/CodeExecution/Debian64Pi

Here is an experimental Ubuntu 19.04 alpha image I made which uses u-boot, GRUB2, and the generic ARM64 kernel: https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/view ... 6&t=232543
Ubuntu 18.04 LTS desktop images for the Raspberry Pi 3.

https://github.com/CodeExecution/Ubuntu-ARM64-RPi

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Re: Arm A53 AArch64 Support

Thu Jan 31, 2019 9:49 pm

NitinValeo wrote:
Tue Jan 29, 2019 7:41 am
According to the link below from ARM, it says "The only real drawback is the current user space of Raspbian is AArch32 and not AArch64."

https://community.arm.com/tools/b/blog/ ... 1546423942

Raspbian doesn't support AArch64, can we get support to install AArch64 kernel in the raspberry pi board?
The problem with having Raspbian go to 64 bit is that it would mean that either the RPF would have to support two versions (which would be expensive), or it would break compatibility older Pi and the current Pi0/Pi0W.

Besides trying to find a way to move the Pi0/Pi0W to a 64-bit capable SoC (and if you know of a way to do that with increasing the cost...do tell), the CM1 is promised to stay available until at least 2023. So no matter what, 32-bit Raspbian has to be around at least that long.

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sakaki
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Re: Arm A53 AArch64 Support

Fri Feb 01, 2019 1:13 am

NitinValeo wrote:
Tue Jan 29, 2019 7:41 am
According to the link below from ARM, it says "The only real drawback is the current user space of Raspbian is AArch32 and not AArch64."

https://community.arm.com/tools/b/blog/ ... 1546423942

Raspbian doesn't support AArch64, can we get support to install AArch64 kernel in the raspberry pi board?

There are two distinct points here:
  • what kernel you want to use, and
  • what userland OS you then want to run on top of it.
Due to the ARMv8a architecture (of RPi3B, B+ etc.), when booted under a 64-bit kernel, both 32-bit and 64-bit userland subsystems can be (natively) used, but when booted under a 32-bit kernel, only 32-bit userland is allowed [1].

The current, stock Raspbian system uses a 32-bit kernel and 32-bit userland. However, it is entirely possible to boot 32-bit Raspbian userland on a 64-bit kernel, as demonstrated for example in Crazyhead90's "Raspbian-desktop-64bitkernel-pi3bplus" image (here)., my raspbian-nspawn-64 image etc. As things currently stand:
  • you will lose access to some functionality going this route (for example, the MMAL / OpenMAX IL layers no longer work);
  • most things however (WiFi, Bluetooth, I2C etc.) still work just fine in a 64/32 scenario.
Of course, is important that you use an appropriate kernel, and there are two elements to this:
  1. The RPF maintain their own custom Linux source tree (here), which contains a number of not-yet-upstreamed elements (although these are decreasing over time). You need to build your kernel using (an appropriate branch of) this source tree for maximum compatibility with the hardware.
  2. You then need this kernel to be appropriately configured. The baseline RPi3 configuration for arm64/aarch64 is bcmrpi3_defconfig.)
If you are interested in this, I maintain (for my gentoo-on-rpi3-64bit project, but entirely usable for other distros) a weekly autobuild (aka 'bot-build') of the current default branch (at time of writing, rpi-4.14.y) of said RPF kernel, configured using a vanilla bcmrpi3_defconfig, here. And another, using a slightly tweaked version of that defconfig, here.

You can easily download one of these projects' released kernel tarballs on a vanilla 32-bit Raspbian system, install it, reboot, and you will be instantly running a 64/32 system (which I believe is what you were asking)! Full instructions are provided in this tutorial, the relevant section of which I reproduce below (since it is not a particularly complex thing to try for yourself - no cross compilation required ^-^ [2]):
sakaki wrote:
Tue Jan 29, 2019 1:07 am
...
Installing a 64-bit Kernel
...
To get it, open a terminal on your RPi3, and issue (as the regular pi user):

Code: Select all

[email protected]: ~ $ wget -c https://github.com/sakaki-/bcmrpi3-kernel-bis/releases/download/4.14.93.20190115/bcmrpi3-kernel-bis-4.14.93.20190115.tar.xz
(You can find the most up-to-date kernel package wget string here (it is automatically updated each week by the buildbot); but the above version should work fine.)

Now, 'hold' the existing 32-bit raspberrypi-kernel package, to prevent its files being modified during future "apt-get upgrade" runs (which could overwrite the dtbs we're about to install):

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[email protected]:~ $ sudo apt-mark hold raspberrypi-kernel
Now store off the existing device-tree blobs:

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[email protected]:~ $ sudo mkdir -pv /boot/r32-dtbs
[email protected]:~ $ sudo mv -v /boot/*.dtb /boot/r32-dtbs/
There is no need to back up the 32-bit kernel itself, nor its modules, as the names of these will not clash with their 64-bit counterparts.

With that done, you can safely deploy the 64-bit kernel! This simply requires an untar:

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[email protected]: ~ $ sudo tar --exclude='COPYING.linux' \
  -xJf bcmrpi3-kernel-bis-4.14.93.20190115.tar.xz -C /
[email protected]: ~ $ sync
Note that this won't 'clobber' any existing files (other than the DTBs, which we just backed up) - it writes:
  • a bootable 64-bit kernel to /boot/kernel8.img;
  • the kernel's config to /boot/config;
  • the kernel's to symbol table to /boot/System.map;
  • a set of DTBs to /boot/<devname>.dtb; and
  • a matching module set into /lib/modules/<kernel release name>.
Other than the DTBs, none of these will be present in the baseline 32-bit Raspbian image you have just installed.

Lastly, make a backup of the new device tree blobs too, for ease of rollback later:

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[email protected]:~ $ sudo mkdir -pv /boot/r64-dtbs
[email protected]:~ $ sudo cp -v /boot/*.dtb /boot/r64-dtbs/
That's it! You now have a 64-bit kernel (and corresponding module set) installed, and your RPi3 will automatically try to use in preference to the (Raspbian-supplied) 32-bit kernel, where present.

So next, reboot your RPi3. With luck, you should find it now starts up into the 64-bit kernel, and then continues into (32-bit userland, vanilla) Raspbian, just as before!

You may see the message "dmi: Firmware registration failed." displayed during early boot. This may safely be ignored.

Open a terminal, and check all is well:

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[email protected]:~ $ uname -a
[email protected]:~ $ file $(which ls)
[email protected]:~ $ lsmod
Verify that your WiFi, Bluetooth etc. all work as before (they should do); try opening the bundled (32-bit) Chromium web browser and so forth.

Here's a screenshot of an RPi3 B+ at this stage in the process (your lsmod output etc. may vary slightly):

Image

Notice how the kernel ("uname -a") is aarch64, the vc4 driver module is loaded, and the userland (as shown, for example, by the "file $(which ls)" command) is aarch32.
...

Distro Hopping

Of course, once you allow running under a 64-bit kernel, you may then wonder about migrating to a 64-bit userland OS too ^-^

Raspbian itself is 32-bit only (although jdonald has published scripts to migrate it to multilib, for those of sufficient Debian-fu).

However, there are many other 64-bit (and multilib) distros available for the RPi3, including Debian, Gentoo, various flavours of Ubuntu, Arch etc. These generally come as community-supported bootable images (from contributors like Crazyhead, code_exec, the occasional Gentoo reprobate ^-^ and many others) which include an appropriate 64-bit kernel (as just discussed) plus configured userland. You can browse this thread and this forum to get an idea of what's available - there are quite a few choices!

Or, if you want to stick with Raspbian for familiarity, but just want the ability to run the occasional 64-bit program (and don't want to go the multilib conversion route!), my raspbian-nspawn-64 project (which jahboater kindly linked to above) may be of interest. It uses a 64-bit kernel (as just discussed) with 32-bit Raspbian userland as the host OS, but also runs 64-bit Debian in a lightweight Linux container, with the appropriate 'wiring' to allow 64-bit apps executed within this container to:
  • display on the host desktop's X-server;
  • play sound via the host's pulseaudio server; and
  • access files from the 'pi' user's home directory.
Screenshot:
Image

In any event, the good thing is, it's easy to try various images, and see which one suits you best.

And finally the standard health warning: if you want maximum compatibility and support, use the official RPF-sanctioned 32-bit Raspbian release. Only migrate to some form of 64-bit system if you have a strong use case so to do (and then, tread cautiously...)

hth

sakaki

[1] Or rather, to be completely technically correct, you could run a 64-bit hypervisor (e.g. KVM) and then run both 64-bit and 32-bit kernels on top of this, with either 64 or 32 bit userland(s) on the 64-bit kernel(s), and 32 bit userland(s) (only) on the 32-bit kernel(s), but that's an advanced point. For details on running a 64-bit QEMU KVM hypervisor on the RPi3, please see my notes here and here.
Image
For OS in the above, read kernel, for app, read userland (including the userland OS).

[2] It is relatively straightforward to compile your own kernel if you want to. See e.g. these notes. Gentoo users may also be interested in my own cross-compilation notes, here.

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Gavinmc42
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Re: Arm A53 AArch64 Support

Fri Feb 01, 2019 4:59 am

Probably a silly question, but will 32bit baremetal code run?

Not scared of breaking things now, I have a SSD based Gentoo64, leaves me with lots of uSD's to use to try all this.
I'm dancing on Rainbows.
Raspberries are not Apples or Oranges

code_exec
Posts: 273
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Re: Arm A53 AArch64 Support

Fri Feb 01, 2019 7:04 am

Gavinmc42 wrote:
Fri Feb 01, 2019 4:59 am
Probably a silly question, but will 32bit baremetal code run?

Not scared of breaking things now, I have a SSD based Gentoo64, leaves me with lots of uSD's to use to try all this.
Running ARM32 programs against an ARM64 kernel is possible. However, you may want to use a chroot to install and run these programs under.

There are multiple ways to setup a chroot. One way is to start with an Ubuntu prebuilt filesystem.

http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-base/b ... mhf.tar.gz

Download the filesystem, extract it into a folder, mount your /proc, /dev, /dev/pts, and /sys folders into the filesystem, copy over your resolv.conf, and chroot in!

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wget http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-base/bionic/daily/current/bionic-base-armhf.tar.gz
mkdir ubuntu_chroot
tar -C ubuntu_chroot -xvzf bionic-base-armhf.tar.gz
sudo mount -o bind /proc ubuntu_chroot/proc
sudo mount -o bind /dev ubuntu_chroot/dev
sudo mount -o bind /dev/pts ubuntu_chroot/dev/pts
sudo mount -o bind /sys ubuntu_chroot/system
sudo cp /etc/resolv.conf ubuntu_chroot/etc/resolv.conf
sudo chroot ubuntu_chroot
If you want to run graphical (X) applications, run the following inside the chroot:

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export DISPLAY=:0.0
Outside of the chroot, run:

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xhost +
You can then install ARM32 programs. For example, to install ARM32 LibreOffice, run:

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sudo apt install libreoffice
In the future, to chroot into your Ubuntu ARM32 filesystem, simply run:

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sudo mount -o bind /proc ubuntu_chroot/proc
sudo mount -o bind /dev ubuntu_chroot/dev
sudo mount -o bind /dev/pts ubuntu_chroot/dev/pts
sudo mount -o bind /sys ubuntu_chroot/sys
sudo chroot ubuntu_chroot
Ubuntu 18.04 LTS desktop images for the Raspberry Pi 3.

https://github.com/CodeExecution/Ubuntu-ARM64-RPi

6by9
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Re: Arm A53 AArch64 Support

Fri Feb 01, 2019 7:49 am

64 bit kernel under a 32 bit raspbian is working fine for me, and I'm in the process of fixing up the bits of the kernel that don't work.

All the Mmal and IL apps I've tried still work with that, as the buffers passed from the 32bit app still map correctly onto the Gpu versions of those structures. The 32 bit mmal/IL framework stuff in userspace make the correct mappings for transferring data. (The one bit that really doesn't work at the moment is mmal zero copy as the vcsm driver doesn't work on aarch64). Build a 64 bit userspace version of those framework libraries and I'd expect it to fail.
Codec support is now available on 4.19 via v4l2 as well as mmal/IL, and that does support both 32 and 64 bit apps (once I've merged the last couple of patches). Gstreamer and ffmpeg both work fine with it.

One big but - Usb support on 64 bit kernels is iffy. Aiui the usb controller isn't the best and needs very fast interrupt handling. On 32bit this has been implemented using a fiq (arm's fast interrupt handler), but this has been deprecated in aarch64 linux.
I tried a uvc webcam yesterday. It works fine on 32 bit, but drops frames galore on 64, with anything above vga dropping >90% of frames.
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Gavinmc42
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Re: Arm A53 AArch64 Support

Fri Feb 01, 2019 8:07 am

One big but - Usb support on 64 bit kernels is iffy. Aiui the usb controller isn't the best and needs very fast interrupt handling. On 32bit this has been implemented using a fiq (arm's fast interrupt handler), but this has been deprecated in aarch64 linux.
I tried a uvc webcam yesterday. It works fine on 32 bit, but drops frames galore on 64, with anything above vga dropping >90% of frames.
Ouch, mouse, keyboard going to be an issue or is it just highspeed USB?
Ethernet too?
Anyway, it sounds like it is getting closer.
fiq (arm's fast interrupt handler), but this has been deprecated in aarch64 linux.
When did that happen? Between 4.14 and 4.19?
What were they thinking?

Not sure if my PS2 Eyecams are fast enough to break it, lets find out :lol:
I have not tried any eyecams in any aarch64 yet.
I'm dancing on Rainbows.
Raspberries are not Apples or Oranges

6by9
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Re: Arm A53 AArch64 Support

Fri Feb 01, 2019 10:20 am

Gavinmc42 wrote:
Fri Feb 01, 2019 8:07 am
One big but - Usb support on 64 bit kernels is iffy. Aiui the usb controller isn't the best and needs very fast interrupt handling. On 32bit this has been implemented using a fiq (arm's fast interrupt handler), but this has been deprecated in aarch64 linux.
I tried a uvc webcam yesterday. It works fine on 32 bit, but drops frames galore on 64, with anything above vga dropping >90% of frames.
Ouch, mouse, keyboard going to be an issue or is it just highspeed USB?
Ethernet too?
Anyway, it sounds like it is getting closer.
Mouse and keyboard have been fine in my testing, only high speed stuff. I haven't heard of other significant complaints other than https://github.com/raspberrypi/linux/issues/2817 where USB sound cards also misbehaved (the initially reported wifi dongle is not supportable in either 32 or 64 bit on the Pi due to too many endpoints).
Gavinmc42 wrote:
fiq (arm's fast interrupt handler), but this has been deprecated in aarch64 linux.
When did that happen? Between 4.14 and 4.19?
What were they thinking?

Not sure if my PS2 Eyecams are fast enough to break it, lets find out :lol:
I have not tried any eyecams in any aarch64 yet.
Between ARMv7 and aarch64.
I'm not the expert (jdb is), so I'm only relaying information I've gleaned from him. Apparently it was partially deprecated on ARMv7 too, but still functional.
Software Engineer at Raspberry Pi Trading. Views expressed are still personal views.
I'm not interested in doing contracts for bespoke functionality - please don't ask.

6by9
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Re: Arm A53 AArch64 Support

Fri Feb 01, 2019 10:30 am

Oh, I will add that I know the Fake KMS driver is broken at the moment on 4.19. It's on my list of things to look at.
The defconfig file hasn't been updated yet either, so most of the features are currently hidden.
Software Engineer at Raspberry Pi Trading. Views expressed are still personal views.
I'm not interested in doing contracts for bespoke functionality - please don't ask.

jdonald
Posts: 417
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Re: Arm A53 AArch64 Support

Tue Feb 05, 2019 2:31 am

6by9 wrote:
Fri Feb 01, 2019 7:49 am
64 bit kernel under a 32 bit raspbian is working fine for me, and I'm in the process of fixing up the bits of the kernel that don't work. All the Mmal and IL apps I've tried still work with that, as the buffers passed from the 32bit app still map correctly onto the Gpu versions of those structures. The 32 bit mmal/IL framework stuff in userspace make the correct mappings for transferring data.
...
Codec support is now available on 4.19 via v4l2 as well as mmal/IL, and that does support both 32 and 64 bit apps (once I've merged the last couple of patches). Gstreamer and ffmpeg both work fine with it.
This sounds like pretty big news.

omxplayer -no-osd and vlc --vout=mmal_vout are working with accelerated video too? chromium-browser can play YouTube videos without spewing MMAL errors?
One big but - Usb support on 64 bit kernels is iffy. Aiui the usb controller isn't the best and needs very fast interrupt handling. On 32bit this has been implemented using a fiq (arm's fast interrupt handler), but this has been deprecated in aarch64 linux.
As I understand it the FIQ stuff was specific to the default dwc_otg driver. Could this mean that in aarch64 mode dtoverlay=dwc2 performs just as well or perhaps better in comparison?

6by9
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Re: Arm A53 AArch64 Support

Tue Feb 05, 2019 11:43 am

Please see https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/view ... 9&t=232684 for ongoing support on this. I'm going to try and contain information to there rather than duplicate it around all the threads discussing 64bit kernels.
jdonald wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 2:31 am
6by9 wrote:
Fri Feb 01, 2019 7:49 am
64 bit kernel under a 32 bit raspbian is working fine for me, and I'm in the process of fixing up the bits of the kernel that don't work. All the Mmal and IL apps I've tried still work with that, as the buffers passed from the 32bit app still map correctly onto the Gpu versions of those structures. The 32 bit mmal/IL framework stuff in userspace make the correct mappings for transferring data.
...
Codec support is now available on 4.19 via v4l2 as well as mmal/IL, and that does support both 32 and 64 bit apps (once I've merged the last couple of patches). Gstreamer and ffmpeg both work fine with it.
This sounds like pretty big news.

omxplayer -no-osd and vlc --vout=mmal_vout are working with accelerated video too? chromium-browser can play YouTube videos without spewing MMAL errors?
NB I'm on Raspbian Buster (a test image), and I'm using Full KMS.
Fake KMS is broken.
Legacy appears to be OK booting to console, but fails to startx.

omxplayer requires Fake KMS or Legacy. Legacy booted to a console it works fine.

vlc mmal_vout requires Fake KMS or Legacy, therefore I'm unable to test.
My vlc is also the stock Debian Buster version, so I can't test the version which includes our custom hardware acceleration. At some point I'll see if it works.

Chromium is working in Full KMS. Video playback from iPlayer seems better than from Youtube. It's using a hybrid decode path rendering to EGL that seems to be struggling on the render. Up to about a quarter of the screen works pretty well, more than that gets jerky.
jdonald wrote:
One big but - Usb support on 64 bit kernels is iffy. Aiui the usb controller isn't the best and needs very fast interrupt handling. On 32bit this has been implemented using a fiq (arm's fast interrupt handler), but this has been deprecated in aarch64 linux.
As I understand it the FIQ stuff was specific to the default dwc_otg driver. Could this mean that in aarch64 mode dtoverlay=dwc2 performs just as well or perhaps better in comparison?
Possible but I suspect unlikely. I'm more than happy to be proven wrong should someone else test it.
The USB peripheral requires very fast interrupt handling, and neither driver is going to provide that. At least the dwc_otg driver attempts to prioritise things. Once I've cleared up some of the other issues I may discuss with our USB expert more on where the problems actually lie and whether there is any reasonable way of fixing them.
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sakaki
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Re: Arm A53 AArch64 Support

Thu Mar 07, 2019 12:49 am

Hello,

I've just posted a new release of gentoo-on-rpi3-64bit which includes an ffmpeg patched to use the v4l2 m2m route to to the RPi3's hardware video codecs (the camera module is supported too). Screenshot:

Image

For further details, please see this post.

Thanks to 6by9 for assistance getting this working ^-^

Best, sakaki

echmain
Posts: 253
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Re: Arm A53 AArch64 Support

Thu Mar 07, 2019 1:59 am

Wow, pretty cool. Congrats!

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