dominic03
Posts: 99
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2018 1:50 am

Install OS without overwrite in PINN

Sun Feb 10, 2019 10:25 pm

I tried to install Windows 10 IoT Core but it failed. I also have Raspbian and RISC installed and I don't want to go through the install process again. Is there a way for me to install Windows 10 IoT core WITHOUT removing existing operating systems?

BTW, pressing PgDown crashes PINN.
Raspberry Pi 4B 4gb running Raspbian Buster v3.2 (via PINN)
Kingston 32 GB C10 (U1) microSD
Sceptre E225W 22" 75hz 1080p monitor
Overclocked to 2.147ghz
Deja-dup backups stored on 4GB flash drive

User avatar
procount
Posts: 2169
Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2013 12:32 pm
Location: UK

Re: Install OS without overwrite in PINN

Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:52 am

As you have a 3B+ please see this post -> https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/view ... 9#p1407227

Because WinIoT has an odd partition layout and uses Microsoft's own installer, you can only install it at the beginning when PINN erases all partitions. (You cannot install it later into an empty ProjectSpace). If you have already trued to install it you should be able to reinstall it.

If you need to start afresh, you can backup your other existing OSes to a USB stick with PINN then install these backups with a new version of WinIoT.
PINN - NOOBS with the extras... https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=63&t=142574

User avatar
procount
Posts: 2169
Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2013 12:32 pm
Location: UK

Re: Install OS without overwrite in PINN

Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:57 am

PageDown is used to cycle the menus ( as is key M) so it's odd that noone else has reported it and I've never seen it. Please open an issue on my github with details of how to reproduce it.
PINN - NOOBS with the extras... https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=63&t=142574

dominic03
Posts: 99
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2018 1:50 am

Re: Install OS without overwrite in PINN

Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:46 am

So I'll try Insider Release.
How do I make it install at the beginning, instead of as the 4th OS to install (like it did for me?)

And is there a way to install more opersting systems without wiping the SD card or copying everything to a USB drive?
Raspberry Pi 4B 4gb running Raspbian Buster v3.2 (via PINN)
Kingston 32 GB C10 (U1) microSD
Sceptre E225W 22" 75hz 1080p monitor
Overclocked to 2.147ghz
Deja-dup backups stored on 4GB flash drive

User avatar
procount
Posts: 2169
Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2013 12:32 pm
Location: UK

Re: Install OS without overwrite in PINN

Mon Feb 11, 2019 12:20 pm

dominic03 wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:46 am
How do I make it install at the beginning, instead of as the 4th OS to install (like it did for me?)
At the beginning of the OS list? You can't determine the order of installation, I'm afraid. The order is determined by whatever order PINN discovers the OSes in.
dominic03 wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:46 am
And is there a way to install more operating systems without wiping the SD card or copying everything to a USB drive?
Yes and no.
No, because PINN allocates all of the SD card space to the OSes that it installs at first, so there is no space left to add another OS on the card (and PINN is not smart enough to to shrink partitions to make more space).
Yes, if you have the foresight to install some ProjectSpaces at the start, which are empty partitions into which you can later install OSes into (including multiple copies of the same OS). But note these only work with conventional 2 partition layouts, so they won't work with WinIoT, Android OSes, or any other that uses more than 2 partitions. Please see the documentation for full details.
PINN - NOOBS with the extras... https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=63&t=142574

dominic03
Posts: 99
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2018 1:50 am

Re: Install OS without overwrite in PINN

Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:05 pm

procount wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 12:20 pm
dominic03 wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:46 am
How do I make it install at the beginning, instead of as the 4th OS to install (like it did for me?)
At the beginning of the OS list? You can't determine the order of installation, I'm afraid. The order is determined by whatever order PINN discovers the OSes in.
dominic03 wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:46 am
And is there a way to install more operating systems without wiping the SD card or copying everything to a USB drive?
Yes and no.
No, because PINN allocates all of the SD card space to the OSes that it installs at first, so there is no space left to add another OS on the card (and PINN is not smart enough to to shrink partitions to make more space).
Yes, if you have the foresight to install some ProjectSpaces at the start, which are empty partitions into which you can later install OSes into (including multiple copies of the same OS). But note these only work with conventional 2 partition layouts, so they won't work with WinIoT, Android OSes, or any other that uses more than 2 partitions. Please see the documentation for full details.
I may or may have installed a few ProjectSpaces. I don't think I did though. It wouldn't really help with IoT core, though...

So basically, could I just try reinstalling everything, but if it doesn't say "Windows 10 IoT Core: Extracting" or something like that, I just reboot my Pi and try again?

I guess I could spend the time again, it wasn't too long to install everything and I haven't restored backups or installed things yet.
Raspberry Pi 4B 4gb running Raspbian Buster v3.2 (via PINN)
Kingston 32 GB C10 (U1) microSD
Sceptre E225W 22" 75hz 1080p monitor
Overclocked to 2.147ghz
Deja-dup backups stored on 4GB flash drive

User avatar
procount
Posts: 2169
Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2013 12:32 pm
Location: UK

Re: Install OS without overwrite in PINN

Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:27 pm

Yes you could just start again.
Bear in mind that because Windows uses its own installer, the progress bar will not advance properly as it installs.

You could always create your own projectSpace for WinIoT to defer installation to another time. Compare the ProjectSpace metafiles with those of Raspbian to see what the differences are. Basically a ProjectSpace is just a partition layout with no content.
PINN - NOOBS with the extras... https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=63&t=142574

dominic03
Posts: 99
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2018 1:50 am

Re: Install OS without overwrite in PINN

Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:52 pm

procount wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:27 pm
Yes you could just start again.
Bear in mind that because Windows uses its own installer, the progress bar will not advance properly as it installs.

You could always create your own projectSpace for WinIoT to defer installation to another time. Compare the ProjectSpace metafiles with those of Raspbian to see what the differences are. Basically a ProjectSpace is just a partition layout with no content.
I thought Win IoT doesn't support projectspace?
Raspberry Pi 4B 4gb running Raspbian Buster v3.2 (via PINN)
Kingston 32 GB C10 (U1) microSD
Sceptre E225W 22" 75hz 1080p monitor
Overclocked to 2.147ghz
Deja-dup backups stored on 4GB flash drive

User avatar
procount
Posts: 2169
Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2013 12:32 pm
Location: UK

Re: Install OS without overwrite in PINN

Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:57 pm

The projectSpaces supplied with PINN are for typical OSes that use 2 partitions: 1 FAT32 for boot, and 1 EXT43 for the rootfs. WinIoT does not match this partition layout so it cannot be installed into the supplied projectspaces.

However, there is nothing to stop you from creating your own type of ProjectSpace that is specific for WinIoT. But it will not be suitable for other OSes.
I'm not sure there would be much call for this, so I don't intend on doing it myself, but it would be quite straightforward if you understand PINN's metafile structure.
PINN - NOOBS with the extras... https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=63&t=142574

dominic03
Posts: 99
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2018 1:50 am

Re: Install OS without overwrite in PINN

Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:00 pm

procount wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:57 pm
The projectSpaces supplied with PINN are for typical OSes that use 2 partitions: 1 FAT32 for boot, and 1 EXT43 for the rootfs. WinIoT does not match this partition layout so it cannot be installed into the supplied projectspaces.

However, there is nothing to stop you from creating your own type of ProjectSpace that is specific for WinIoT. But it will not be suitable for other OSes.
I'm not sure there would be much call for this, so I don't intend on doing it myself, but it would be quite straightforward if you understand PINN's metafile structure.
Yeah, I have never looked into the files and code and stuff for PINN, so I don't think I could create a custom ProjectSpace. But I will try what I previously mentioned, where I try to get it to install first from luck.
Raspberry Pi 4B 4gb running Raspbian Buster v3.2 (via PINN)
Kingston 32 GB C10 (U1) microSD
Sceptre E225W 22" 75hz 1080p monitor
Overclocked to 2.147ghz
Deja-dup backups stored on 4GB flash drive

dominic03
Posts: 99
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2018 1:50 am

Re: Install OS without overwrite in PINN

Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:22 pm

procount wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 12:20 pm
dominic03 wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:46 am
How do I make it install at the beginning, instead of as the 4th OS to install (like it did for me?)
At the beginning of the OS list? You can't determine the order of installation, I'm afraid. The order is determined by whatever order PINN discovers the OSes in.
dominic03 wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:46 am
And is there a way to install more operating systems without wiping the SD card or copying everything to a USB drive?
Yes and no.
No, because PINN allocates all of the SD card space to the OSes that it installs at first, so there is no space left to add another OS on the card (and PINN is not smart enough to to shrink partitions to make more space).
Yes, if you have the foresight to install some ProjectSpaces at the start, which are empty partitions into which you can later install OSes into (including multiple copies of the same OS). But note these only work with conventional 2 partition layouts, so they won't work with WinIoT, Android OSes, or any other that uses more than 2 partitions. Please see the documentation for full details.
So could I select to install Windows IoT and 4 ProjectSpaces for the others, then after installing IoT put the operating systems I want in the project spaces?
And does RISC work with the ProjectSpaces?
Raspberry Pi 4B 4gb running Raspbian Buster v3.2 (via PINN)
Kingston 32 GB C10 (U1) microSD
Sceptre E225W 22" 75hz 1080p monitor
Overclocked to 2.147ghz
Deja-dup backups stored on 4GB flash drive

User avatar
procount
Posts: 2169
Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2013 12:32 pm
Location: UK

Re: Install OS without overwrite in PINN

Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:04 pm

Yes you can do that.

But RiscOs is another odd one and needs to be installed at the start with WioIoT. It cannot be installed into a ProjectSpace.
PINN - NOOBS with the extras... https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=63&t=142574

dominic03
Posts: 99
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2018 1:50 am

Re: Install OS without overwrite in PINN

Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:10 pm

procount wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:04 pm
Yes you can do that.

But RiscOs is another odd one and needs to be installed at the start with WioIoT. It cannot be installed into a ProjectSpace.
Ok. But it wasn't installed first and it worked fined.

BTW, I think the error was relating to "dirty partition" or "bad partition" or something. I don't remember, but if I get another error, I'll make sure to post it to this thread.
Raspberry Pi 4B 4gb running Raspbian Buster v3.2 (via PINN)
Kingston 32 GB C10 (U1) microSD
Sceptre E225W 22" 75hz 1080p monitor
Overclocked to 2.147ghz
Deja-dup backups stored on 4GB flash drive

User avatar
procount
Posts: 2169
Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2013 12:32 pm
Location: UK

Re: Install OS without overwrite in PINN

Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:21 pm

When I say "installed first" I don't mean it is the one at the top of the list. I mean it should be installed at the same time as your first set of OSes/project spaces just after the sd card has been wiped and repartitioned by PINN.

I mean that it is not possible to install it later by replacing another OS or projectspace. Riscos can only be installed in a certain location because it doesn't understand partitions. It's just a bit diiferent to linux based oses.
PINN - NOOBS with the extras... https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=63&t=142574

dominic03
Posts: 99
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2018 1:50 am

Re: Install OS without overwrite in PINN

Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:24 pm

procount wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:21 pm
When I say "installed first" I don't mean it is the one at the top of the list. I mean it should be installed at the same time as your first set of OSes/project spaces just after the sd card has been wiped and repartitioned by PINN.

I mean that it is not possible to install it later by replacing another OS or projectspace. Riscos can only be installed in a certain location because it doesn't understand partitions. It's just a bit diiferent to linux based oses.
Oh. Well, it was my first install, so I guess it just screwed up. Either that, or it is because I chose RTM. I'm installing it right now, trying to use Insider, and I'll keep you posted.
Raspberry Pi 4B 4gb running Raspbian Buster v3.2 (via PINN)
Kingston 32 GB C10 (U1) microSD
Sceptre E225W 22" 75hz 1080p monitor
Overclocked to 2.147ghz
Deja-dup backups stored on 4GB flash drive

dominic03
Posts: 99
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2018 1:50 am

Re: Install OS without overwrite in PINN

Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:54 pm

procount wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:21 pm
When I say "installed first" I don't mean it is the one at the top of the list. I mean it should be installed at the same time as your first set of OSes/project spaces just after the sd card has been wiped and repartitioned by PINN.

I mean that it is not possible to install it later by replacing another OS or projectspace. Riscos can only be installed in a certain location because it doesn't understand partitions. It's just a bit diiferent to linux based oses.
Oh hey, I got it. https://ibb.co/X4VJjgn
I love how it says "Everything is OK" when it isn't
Raspberry Pi 4B 4gb running Raspbian Buster v3.2 (via PINN)
Kingston 32 GB C10 (U1) microSD
Sceptre E225W 22" 75hz 1080p monitor
Overclocked to 2.147ghz
Deja-dup backups stored on 4GB flash drive

dominic03
Posts: 99
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2018 1:50 am

Re: Install OS without overwrite in PINN

Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:31 pm

A bit of a status update:
Windows IoT Core is installed
I am yet to install Raspbian and other operating systems into the 3 ProjectSpaces.
Attachments
162AB5B1-48FA-4603-AFFB-6BFAA39F7981.jpeg
WinIoT booting
162AB5B1-48FA-4603-AFFB-6BFAA39F7981.jpeg (162.19 KiB) Viewed 1098 times
Raspberry Pi 4B 4gb running Raspbian Buster v3.2 (via PINN)
Kingston 32 GB C10 (U1) microSD
Sceptre E225W 22" 75hz 1080p monitor
Overclocked to 2.147ghz
Deja-dup backups stored on 4GB flash drive

Return to “Beginners”