jahboater
Posts: 4762
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2015 6:38 pm

Re: Release: Multiple 64Bit OS 3bplus desktop&lite

Mon May 28, 2018 3:24 pm

Heater wrote:
Mon May 28, 2018 1:36 pm
How so? I'm using all 64 bits of a 3B+. Not disappointed at all.
OK, so what distro are you using? You mention Pi64?
That was released on 31 July 2017 and of the 11 commits since then I cant see anything to do with the Pi3+
https://github.com/bamarni/pi64/releases
... and it didn't work on my 3+.
Am I looking in the wrong place?

feelslikeautumn
Posts: 315
Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2017 9:51 pm

Re: Release: Multiple 64Bit OS 3bplus desktop&lite

Mon May 28, 2018 3:59 pm

Follow the links in the op. 3B+ support.

Xubuntu arm64 with 3B+ support - viewtopic.php?f=56&t=209763

Gentoo has 3 B+ support

Etc

ejolson
Posts: 3683
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2014 11:47 am

Re: Release: Multiple 64Bit OS 3bplus desktop&lite

Mon May 28, 2018 5:09 pm

spl23 wrote:
Mon May 28, 2018 10:50 am
At present we are able to ship one OS image that will run on every Pi ever sold; if we were to produce a 64-bit image, we would either orphan Pi 0 and PI 1 devices, or we would need to build, maintain and support two different images, with the attendant potential for actual confusion between them.
I think the point of this thread is that the existing 32-bit user land works fine with a 64-bit kernel. The foundation already maintains separate ARMv6 and ARMv7 kernels. Why not a 64-bit ARMv8 kernel a well? That should be easier and more compatible than maintaining a separate image with a full 64-bit user land.

As already mentioned, most desktop and server software is developed and tested in 64-bit environments these days. Few developers use 32-bit machines to test on, have the time or even care. Except for the sysbench CPU test, the problem is not so much the performance of the Pi in 32-bit mode but the difficulty of even compiling recent web browsers, video editors and databases.

How much C code do you see that still includes the far and near pointers needed for compatibility with the 16-bit segmented Intel 8086, 80186 and 80286 architectures? Do you think any current project would accept patches to put the far and near pointers back in? At some point in time developers will also stop pulling 32-bit compatibility patches into their projects. This is already the case with Firefox.

Once a 64-bit kernel is in place, it does not take much more to add a few optional 64-bit binaries where needed. Those binaries obviously wouldn't run on a 32-bit kernel, but there are already similar issues with the Java binaries in Raspbian that don't run on ARMv6 right now. For me the question is, why not simply add a 64-bit ARMv8 kernel to the existing Raspbian image?

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bensimmo
Posts: 4182
Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2014 3:02 pm
Location: East Yorkshire

Re: Release: Multiple 64Bit OS 3bplus desktop&lite

Mon May 28, 2018 5:18 pm

I think one of the things is the Forum posters seem to be from Trading and know what they do, hence that is what they support.

If you read Raspberry Pi Press magazines and articles, they do actually mention and recommend other Operating Systems.
But you don't see them posting in here.
You also don't seem to see the Foundation people responsible for the various Python and other projects in here. (AstroPi was an exception, but that's all changed now)
(Or maybe they do, but they're not branded as such and go by some obscure nickname so you don't realise?)

My opinion, as it the end of the bank holiday and the clouds have come over.
Unless the OS is snappier, Chromium is notixbaky quicker and Scratch2 and 3 work better and Thonny is a little less laggy. Then there is currently no need for a 64bit Raspberry Pi ARM/VC4 Desktop build.
...or for the anything related to the camera.


I do think they probably need to prepare for it as the x86 Desktop version would probably benefit.
And get the basics for an ARM/VC4* Lite setup, or at least make it easier for people who wish to build their own OS and easily update the booting bits.

jdonald
Posts: 415
Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2017 4:36 pm

Re: Release: Multiple 64Bit OS 3bplus desktop&lite

Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:16 am

I've been using this 64-bit Raspbian image for quite some time, but only recently came across this thread. A belated big thanks to Crazyhead for sharing.

Those who use other 64-bit distros such as the original Bamarni Debian or any of the various Ubuntu/Xubuntu images, give this a try. Raspbian's PIXEL desktop is familiar and reliable. Moreover, to switch back into 32-bit mode just run sudo mv /boot/kernel8.img /boot/kernel8-disabled.img && reboot

jahboater
Posts: 4762
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2015 6:38 pm

Re: Release: Multiple 64Bit OS 3bplus desktop&lite

Fri Jan 11, 2019 7:36 am

ejolson wrote:
Mon May 28, 2018 5:09 pm
How much C code do you see that still includes the far and near pointers needed for compatibility with the 16-bit segmented Intel 8086, 80186 and 80286 architectures? Do you think any current project would accept patches to put the far and near pointers back in? At some point in time developers will also stop pulling 32-bit compatibility patches into their projects. This is already the case with Firefox.
I see in aarch64 we are back to multiple memory models, if not segmentation.
"-mcmodel=tiny" produces more compact code than the default:-

Code: Select all

   -mcmodel=tiny
       Generate code for the tiny code model.  The program and its statically defined symbols
       must be within 1MB of each other.  Programs can be statically or dynamically linked.

   -mcmodel=small
       Generate code for the small code model.  The program and its statically defined
       symbols must be within 4GB of each other.  Programs can be statically or dynamically
       linked.  This is the default code model.

   -mcmodel=large
       Generate code for the large code model.  This makes no assumptions about addresses and
       sizes of sections.  Programs can be statically linked only.

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