User avatar
penguintutor
Posts: 376
Joined: Tue May 08, 2012 9:11 am
Location: UK
Contact: Website

Scratch 3 Desktop Version for Raspberry Pi

Thu Jan 03, 2019 10:32 am

Now that Scratch 3 has been released are there any plans for a Raspberry Pi (Linux) version of the Desktop version? Scratch 3 can be run through a browser today, but the desktop version is required for offline use and to support physical computing using the Raspberry Pi GPIO ports?

If so is there anything that members of the Raspberry Pi community can assist? Perhaps programming or testing?

I'm happy to help myself. I don't have the time to run the project myself (and wouldn't want to duplicate work if there is a project already in the pipeline), but I would be happy to help if I can.

jamesh
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Posts: 22754
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 7:41 pm

Re: Scratch 3 Desktop Version for Raspberry Pi

Thu Jan 03, 2019 10:48 am

Currently Scratch3 does work in online mode in Chromium, if/when offline becomes available is up in the air. We do talk to MIT re: Scratch, and discussions are on going with regard to the offline version.

Sorry, that's all the information I have.
Principal Software Engineer at Raspberry Pi (Trading) Ltd.
Contrary to popular belief, humorous signatures are allowed. Here's an example...
"My grief counseller just died, luckily, he was so good, I didn't care."

fruitoftheloom
Posts: 19840
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2014 12:40 pm
Location: Delightful Dorset

Re: Scratch 3 Desktop Version for Raspberry Pi

Thu Jan 03, 2019 11:06 am

penguintutor wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 10:32 am
Now that Scratch 3 has been released are there any plans for a Raspberry Pi (Linux) version of the Desktop version? Scratch 3 can be run through a browser today, but the desktop version is required for offline use and to support physical computing using the Raspberry Pi GPIO ports?

If so is there anything that members of the Raspberry Pi community can assist? Perhaps programming or testing?

I'm happy to help myself. I don't have the time to run the project myself (and wouldn't want to duplicate work if there is a project already in the pipeline), but I would be happy to help if I can.

Scratch 3 Desktop has only been released for Windows 10 and MacOS 10.13 or later, no Linux:

https://scratch.mit.edu/download
adieu

My other Computer is an Asus CS10 ChromeBit running Chrome Operating System.
HP Envy 4500 Wireless Printer supported by HPLIP software in Raspbian Buster.
Raspberry Pi Model 2B v1.1

User avatar
penguintutor
Posts: 376
Joined: Tue May 08, 2012 9:11 am
Location: UK
Contact: Website

Re: Scratch 3 Desktop Version for Raspberry Pi

Thu Jan 03, 2019 3:14 pm

I have used the online version in Raspbian (I used that during the Beta testing). It's not just taking Scratch offline (although that is one thing), but having the ability to access the GPIO which we have on Scratch 1.4 and Scratch 2. That is the killer feature allowing it to be used with physical computing.

I have tried the desktop version on Windows which appears to have access to external modules using Scratch Link (eg. Lego mindstorms). The Scratch team have said they are working on a desktop version for Chromebooks. Perhaps that will provide a good starting point towards a Linux version?

Presumably there will need to be a port of Scratch Link - or something similar to allow hardware access?

@jamesh If there is anything in future working towards those goals and anyway I can help please let me know.

jamesh
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Posts: 22754
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 7:41 pm

Re: Scratch 3 Desktop Version for Raspberry Pi

Thu Jan 03, 2019 5:35 pm

penguintutor wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 3:14 pm
I have used the online version in Raspbian (I used that during the Beta testing). It's not just taking Scratch offline (although that is one thing), but having the ability to access the GPIO which we have on Scratch 1.4 and Scratch 2. That is the killer feature allowing it to be used with physical computing.

I have tried the desktop version on Windows which appears to have access to external modules using Scratch Link (eg. Lego mindstorms). The Scratch team have said they are working on a desktop version for Chromebooks. Perhaps that will provide a good starting point towards a Linux version?

Presumably there will need to be a port of Scratch Link - or something similar to allow hardware access?

@jamesh If there is anything in future working towards those goals and anyway I can help please let me know.
You'll have to check with MIT - they are the ones who need to do the offline development.
Principal Software Engineer at Raspberry Pi (Trading) Ltd.
Contrary to popular belief, humorous signatures are allowed. Here's an example...
"My grief counseller just died, luckily, he was so good, I didn't care."

hippy
Posts: 5387
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:34 pm
Location: UK

Re: Scratch 3 Desktop Version for Raspberry Pi

Thu Jan 03, 2019 6:48 pm

fruitoftheloom wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 11:06 am
Scratch 3 Desktop has only been released for Windows 10 and MacOS 10.13 or later, no Linux:

https://scratch.mit.edu/download
Just for information: Though it does say "Windows 10+" is required; I downloaded and installed Scratch Desktop 1.2.0 under Windows 7 64-bit and it appears to be working as expected. The installer itself also reports "Windows 7 or above required".

That doesn't help with a Linux version though, nor with using extensions which have not been ported yet - and cannot be because the implementation specification isn't available :cry:

The current Linux status is as reported on that download link : "Scratch Desktop on Linux is currently not supported. We are working with partners and the open-source community to determine if there is a way we can support Linux in the future".

code_exec
Posts: 271
Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2018 12:25 pm

Re: Scratch 3 Desktop Version for Raspberry Pi

Sun Jan 13, 2019 7:25 am

MIT should start developing Scratch Desktop for Linux again considering the Pi is one of the main platforms to run it on.
Ubuntu 18.04 LTS desktop images for the Raspberry Pi 3.

https://github.com/CodeExecution/Ubuntu-ARM64-RPi

jakes
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2018 4:24 am

Re: Scratch 3 Desktop Version for Raspberry Pi

Wed Jan 23, 2019 10:48 pm

Pretty disappointed this wasn't available from the get-go, but I guess time & $ is finite.

From a cursory look, I suspect it may be "simple" to build it from source: (or rather, documentation seems pretty straight-forward enough)

* https://github.com/LLK/scratch-vm
* https://github.com/LLK/scratch-gui
* https://github.com/LLK/scratch-www

I'm looking at this as an offline solution for our STEM class - either running it in a Docker on a lap/class server, and/or deployable to a RasPi image. Possibly integrating with the MakeCode stuff for micro:bit & Playground Express boards.

I won't have time to dig into this any time soon, but I suspect members of the community far smarter & time-rich than I may solve this particular problem "soon" enough, once they get wind of it.

hippy
Posts: 5387
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:34 pm
Location: UK

Re: Scratch 3 Desktop Version for Raspberry Pi

Thu Jan 24, 2019 1:19 am

jakes wrote:
Wed Jan 23, 2019 10:48 pm
Pretty disappointed this wasn't available from the get-go, but I guess time & $ is finite.

From a cursory look, I suspect it may be "simple" to build it from source: (or rather, documentation seems pretty straight-forward enough)
Those were my thoughts as well. No one seems to have explained why an off-line editor isn't available for Linux or what the difficulty is or would be.

I would try it myself but I'm not familiar with Scratch 3, its internals, or the tools used, so am not sure exactly what I would need to build or how all the parts mentioned fit together.

I did download nodejs, npm, and scratch-vm, followed the instructions, 'npm install' and immediately got an error, another circle of hell entered. I didn't try the rest.

If someone wants to take the lead then I'll be pleased to help out, at least confirm or not that I get the same results, but I'm not leading this adventure.

User avatar
Botspot
Posts: 130
Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2019 9:47 pm
Location: Texas

Re: Scratch 3 Desktop Version for Raspberry Pi

Fri Jan 25, 2019 3:37 pm

The constant CPU usage in Scratch 3 is WebGl rendering the stage. WebGl does not support graphics acceleration on the Pi yet, so it uses the CPU instead.
To edit a Scratch 3 project, simply kill WebGl from the task manager. The stage will freeze, but dragging blocks becomes buttery smooth. Once WebGl is disabled, Scratch 3 truly becomes event based; I've seen 0% CPU with 2 Scratch 3 websites running at the same time.

To re-enable WebGl, refresh the page.
Most people don't think for themselves much anymore. 
Their brains run single core at a speed similar to a Pi 1. Then they go out and purchase smart devices to help them think. Ridiculous!

Not me, I voided my brain's warranty bit due to overclocking.

hippy
Posts: 5387
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:34 pm
Location: UK

Re: Scratch 3 Desktop Version for Raspberry Pi

Fri Jan 25, 2019 5:43 pm

Botspot wrote:
Fri Jan 25, 2019 3:37 pm
The constant CPU usage in Scratch 3 is WebGl rendering the stage.
That would explain it. I have no idea why it's continually rendering something which is never changing though. That would be what I'd call a 'design flaw'.

Though in reality it's probably more a case of 'works for me', so considered good enough for everyone, and 'get a decent computer' if it doesn't work for you. They wouldn't be the first software team to have adopted that approach, intentionally, or otherwise.

User avatar
rpiMike
Posts: 817
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2012 12:38 pm
Location: Cumbria, UK

Re: Scratch 3 Desktop Version for Raspberry Pi

Fri Jan 25, 2019 5:59 pm

The Scratch 3 article on the Raspberry Pi Blog mentions an offline version is being worked on :
Another reason for ensuring we support both Scratch 2 and 3 is that, at the moment, there is no offline, installable version of Scratch 3 for Raspberry Pi. Rest assured that this is something we are working on!
https://www.raspberrypi.org/blog/scratc ... -upgrades/

johnson34
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed May 01, 2019 12:27 am

Re: Scratch 3 Desktop Version for Raspberry Pi

Wed May 01, 2019 12:29 am

Take a look at this, they provide opensource linux binaries: https://scratux.github.io

hippy
Posts: 5387
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:34 pm
Location: UK

Re: Scratch 3 Desktop Version for Raspberry Pi

Wed May 01, 2019 9:51 am

johnson34 wrote:
Wed May 01, 2019 12:29 am
Take a look at this, they provide opensource linux binaries: https://scratux.github.io
They don't seem to provide ARM binaries. And building from source fails if one follows their instructions -

Code: Select all

[email protected]:~/scratux $ yarn
ERROR: There are no scenarios; must have at least one.

Code: Select all

[email protected]:~/scratux $ yarn run build
ERROR: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: 'run'
So it seems something has to be configured to get it to build which hasn't been described.

That's no great surprise to me; is par for the course in my experience. I have asked 'Why does nothing ever seem to work?' in the past, and it's just another case which proves the point.

Though I haven't built it so I can't check, I would suspect the biggest argument against using 'scratux' is that it's not actually Scratch 3.0, is something similar but not the same. That, I would further suspect, will probably manifest itself in some ways which people will consider important enough to not consider it an acceptable option.

But I could be wrong.

Has anyone managed to build it, knows what needs to be done to get it to build ?

johnson34
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed May 01, 2019 12:27 am

Re: Scratch 3 Desktop Version for Raspberry Pi

Mon May 06, 2019 5:02 pm

It looks like they have just changed the base of the project and the build steps. It is now truly based on Scratch Desktop and they now provide a .deb binary for armv7l. I will test it later on my Rasp

hippy
Posts: 5387
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:34 pm
Location: UK

Re: Scratch 3 Desktop Version for Raspberry Pi

Thu Jun 20, 2019 10:51 am

johnson34 wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 5:02 pm
It looks like they have just changed the base of the project and the build steps. It is now truly based on Scratch Desktop and they now provide a .deb binary for armv7l.
Unfortunately; "Scratux 1.1.0 - .deb (armv7l) - For Raspbian - Coming soon", so seems it's not available yet.

Attempting to build from source continues to fail.

MisterEd
Posts: 33
Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2018 5:28 am
Location: Huntsville, AL USA

Re: Scratch 3 Desktop Version for Raspberry Pi

Tue Jun 25, 2019 3:39 am

They just released the Raspberry Pi 4 today. You can get it with 1, 2, or 4 GB of RAM. :D

I hope they will be able to release Scratch 3 Desktop for the Raspberry Pi now that the new Raspberry Pi is a lot more capable.

I just ordered the Raspberry Pi 4 with 4GB of RAM. Unfortunately the 4GB version won't ship until August 1st.

fruitoftheloom
Posts: 19840
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2014 12:40 pm
Location: Delightful Dorset

Re: Scratch 3 Desktop Version for Raspberry Pi

Tue Jun 25, 2019 3:50 am

MisterEd wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 3:39 am
They just released the Raspberry Pi 4 today. You can get it with 1, 2, or 4 GB of RAM. :D

I hope they will be able to release Scratch 3 Desktop for the Raspberry Pi now that the new Raspberry Pi is a lot more capable.

I just ordered the Raspberry Pi 4 with 4GB of RAM. Unfortunately the 4GB version won't ship until August 1st.

https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/view ... 9&t=243091
adieu

My other Computer is an Asus CS10 ChromeBit running Chrome Operating System.
HP Envy 4500 Wireless Printer supported by HPLIP software in Raspbian Buster.
Raspberry Pi Model 2B v1.1

hippy
Posts: 5387
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:34 pm
Location: UK

Re: Scratch 3 Desktop Version for Raspberry Pi

Tue Jun 25, 2019 1:49 pm

MisterEd wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 3:39 am
I hope they will be able to release Scratch 3 Desktop for the Raspberry Pi now that the new Raspberry Pi is a lot more capable.
The issue of there not being an off-line editor, "Scratch 3 Desktop", is not Pi specific. MIT don't currently have a "Scratch 3 Desktop" available for any version of Linux.

Return to “Scratch”