paulv
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Bricked pi2b after rpi-update.

Tue Jan 10, 2017 5:09 pm

I'm putting this in the advanced section for a reason.
To qualify, I have more than 3 years of experience with many RPI's, and I'm an electrical engineer by trade, albeit catching-up from wisdom collected decades ago.

First of all, the reason I had to revert to rpi-update is because the cifs drivers (needed for my USB stick) can get out of sync with the kernel version after subsequent update/upgrade activities. The only way I found to get cli working again is to get the two in step again, which seems a bug to me in the first place.

I had to fix the same problem on a model 1b, and that worked flawlessly.

Believe it or not, and I have a hard time believing this myself, but after I did the same rpi-update (no errors reported) on my 2b, and sudo rebooted, I lost my RPI. As of that moment, I get the red and green LED's on after I apply power and that's it. This RPI is only a few months old and was running 24/7 for a few weeks.

Yes, I (twice) tried a brand-new SD card with a virgin copy of Jessie (light) to no avail. Card works on my other RPI's, not on my 2b. Dead as a doornail. All three voltages check. Googling for bricked RPI's only produces walwart issues. I absolutely, positively do not have this as a possible cause.

If you don't believe in coincidences or higher powers, and you have an educated guess what could have caused this, feel free to chime in.
This should not have happened to me, nor should it happen to others.
Last edited by paulv on Wed Jan 11, 2017 8:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

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DougieLawson
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Re: Bricked pi2b after rpi-update.

Tue Jan 10, 2017 5:23 pm

You can't "brick" a Raspberry.

You can get an SDCard that won't boot, but the machine can't be bricked (not without doing critical hardware damage).

Buy a fresh 8GB or bigger SDCard, download a copy of NOOBS 2.1 or plain 2016-11-25 Raspbian, get that on the SDCard, boot it and run away quickly. With a USB reader you should be able to use the system to recover whatever has gone wrong with your "bricked" SDCard and/or salvage valuable data.

BTW, don't ever run rpi-update unless you really know what it does to your system and how to recover it when things go badly wrong.
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Martin Frezman
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Re: Bricked pi2b after rpi-update.

Tue Jan 10, 2017 5:25 pm

Um, OP has already done that several times.

Really, Dougie, you need to get your money back from that speed reading course you took.
If this post appears in the wrong forums category, my apologies.

fruitoftheloom
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Re: Bricked pi2b after rpi-update.

Tue Jan 10, 2017 6:29 pm

paulv wrote:I'm putting this in the advanced section for a reason.
To qualify, I have more than 3 years of experience with many RPI's, and I'm an electrical engineer by trade, albeit catching-up from wisdom collected decades ago.

First of all, the reason I had to revert to rpi-update is because the cli drivers (needed for my USB stick) can get out of sync with the kernel version after subsequent update/upgrade activities. The only way I found to get cli working again is to get the two in step again, which seems a bug to me in the first place.

I had to fix the same problem on a model 1b, and that worked flawlessly.

Believe it or not, and I have a hard time believing this myself, but after I did the same rpi-update (no errors reported) on my 2b, and sudo rebooted, I lost my RPI. As of that moment, I get the red and green LED's on after I apply power and that's it. This RPI is only a few months old and was running 24/7 for a few weeks.

Yes, I (twice) tried a brand-new SD card with a virgin copy of Jessie (light) to no avail. Card works on my other RPI's, not on my 2b. Dead as a doornail. All three voltages check. Googling for bricked RPI's only produces walwart issues. I absolutely, positively do not have this as a possible cause.

If you don't believe in coincidences or higher powers, and you have an educated guess what could have caused this, feel free to chime in.
This should not have happened to me, nor should it happen to others.
Never ever run rpi-update on Raspbian Jessie, its purpose it to install a Testing Kernel / Firmware. To update run:

Code: Select all

sudo apt-get update
sudo apt-get dist-upgrade
sudo reboot
Also it is nigh impossible to brick a Raspberry Pi unless you shoot loads of voltage up the GPIO and fry the SoC.

Regards power supply issues, that is a well known scenario, especially the type with a removable USB cable and the cable is not fit for purpose:

https://www.raspberrypi.org/help/faqs/#powerReqs
Retired disgracefully.....

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DougieLawson
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Re: Bricked pi2b after rpi-update.

Tue Jan 10, 2017 6:31 pm

Martin Frezman wrote:Um, OP has already done that several times.

Really, Dougie, you need to get your money back from that speed reading course you took.
Then he's probably killed his hardware by GPIO abuse or other trauma.
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paulv
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Re: Bricked pi2b after rpi-update.

Wed Jan 11, 2017 6:45 am

This was posted in the advance section to avoid getting the obvious shooting from the hip replies... I tend to check the posters credentials before I offer advice, rather than getting my postings score up.

If you would check my posts on this forum, you could see that I'm pretty experienced with Gpio pins and building various power supplies for RPI's.

I already stated why I had to revert to using rpi-update.
To circumvent what I think is a bug, and avoiding a rebuild of a pretty complex setup from scratch with a fresh download. Using rpi-update should in no way result in serious damage, I hope. Obviously, as I already mentioned, before I used rpi-update, I tried to fix the bug by doing updates and upgrades.

But that's all beside the point.

So far, the "only" explanation offered so far is an extremely unlikely coincedence of my 2b getting bricked during a reboot by a mysterious spike on the power supply or the gpio pins. I'm not ready to accept that at the moment, would you?

PhilE
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Re: Bricked pi2b after rpi-update.

Wed Jan 11, 2017 6:57 am

Can you give any more details about the software installed before the rpi-update? Which distribution was it? Explain where these cli drivers come from and how come they require an update?

I have never heard of a failure like this before, and I've not heard of any new issues with the current release, so at the moment I'm leaning towards an unfortunate coincidence.

tpylkko
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Re: Bricked pi2b after rpi-update.

Wed Jan 11, 2017 7:00 am

Is the pi2 an old one or are revised on with the BCM2837?

paulv
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Re: Bricked pi2b after rpi-update.

Wed Jan 11, 2017 7:14 am

This is a Pi 2 Model B V1.1, made in the UK.
It has a tiny QR-code sticker on the back with what seems like a date code (28/11)
I purchased it in 2016, so it was maybe manufactured on November 28, 2015.

The Broadcom chip has this: BCM2836RIFBG, TE154, P10, 544925-22 N3 W
The Elpida RAM chip has this : B8132B4PB-8D-F, 15300R03100

What does that tell us?

gregeric
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Re: Bricked pi2b after rpi-update.

Wed Jan 11, 2017 7:39 am

It's going to be very difficult to know what happened, unless it's repeatable. The Pi's I have carelessly abused by transient over-voltage (count now = 2) are characterised by the SoC getting hot on power up, even with no SD inserted.

You are right with your interpretation of the date codes. That was one of the last 2B to roll off the production lines before they switched to 3B. The QR code is in fact a Datamatrix batch identifier (a unique serial number 000001100xxxxxxx - your xxx's will read in the 4 millions). There are other date codes: you've missed a digit off the SoC's TE154x, and the RAM is 1530. There are codes elsewhere: one on the PCB (for UK Pi2) plus SD card slot, and probably the LAN9514, all confirming the year 2015.

paulv
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Re: Bricked pi2b after rpi-update.

Wed Jan 11, 2017 8:25 am

Yep the code on the SoC indeed missed a "1" this one is laser engraved and difficult to see, even under an LED lamp with magnifying glass.
The RAM really says 15300R03100, I double checked.
The SD card has : 50930AC
The silkscreen has : "delta", RU-reversed and then KCE MC1 1540, V-OF3, 7-1

Hi Phil,
I'm pretty sure it was the previous kernel version, and I mistakenly typed cli, but I meant cifs. (I'll fix my previous posts to avoid confusion)
After an update/upgrade my working setup did no longer. Googling showed that there can be a mismatch between the kernel version and the cifs-utils, which I why I used rpi-update.

This is the error msg:
cifs filesystem not supported by the system. Mount error (19)
I'm not sure anymore if I used the info from the link below, but is has the same fix, and worked on my other two RPI's:
viewtopic.php?&t=15709
The link is from 2012, but the error is the same and the fix still works.

Coincidence or not, I'm sure I can rule out a power issue, or a gpio mal-treatment. The Pi was in a closet monitoring my energy meter through an optical interface to the gpio uart using 3V3 logic. No LAN connection, only Wifi stick, and a USB stick to offload the SD card from rapid/multiple data writes (kernel still on the SD card), no other electrical connections. No person even close to the RPI, and no sights of Darth Vader reported. ;)
Last edited by paulv on Wed Jan 11, 2017 9:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

gregeric
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Re: Bricked pi2b after rpi-update.

Wed Jan 11, 2017 8:33 am

So your PCB is week 40 2015, (1540). Likewise your RAM week 30 2015 (1530). Your SD card slot is 30/09/2015.

paulv
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Re: Bricked pi2b after rpi-update.

Wed Jan 11, 2017 11:37 am

Thank you gregeric,

I now have all that I need to engrave a tombstone for my 2B.

What I still need is the cause of death to put on the death certificate, needed for burial permission. I can't except "natural causes" though, that still won't fly.

While waiting for that, I'm still debating organ donor ship for science use, burial in a garbage dump for later generations to find, or incineration and then either putting the remains in a fruitbowl or let the wind carry the dust back to it's birth grounds when we have easterly winds.

gregeric
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Re: Bricked pi2b after rpi-update.

Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:04 pm

Not quite everything - we need to know the little fella's name to put on the death certificate. You can use Google Goggles on your phone to read that 2D barcode.

You should keep it for spares, and as you tear it down you can play find-the-fiducial until you have the set of three.

PhilE
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Re: Bricked pi2b after rpi-update.

Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:08 pm

Aside from commiserating and keeping an eye open for an epidemic, I don't think there is much we can do.

paulv
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Re: Bricked pi2b after rpi-update.

Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:23 pm

Send flowers?

The QR-code is too small, I tried two apps, and they can't read it.

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RaTTuS
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Re: Bricked pi2b after rpi-update.

Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:35 pm

and the SOC does not get hot ?
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paulv
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Re: Bricked pi2b after rpi-update.

Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:43 pm

Hi RaTTuS,

Everything is stone cold.
I'm not surprised because total current consumption is about 40mA. (typo!, erlier showed 4mA)

When I supply 5V02 (supplied by a bench supply through P1),
I measure 5V02 at P1-2 and C3, 3V33 at P1-1 and also at C7, and 1V80 at C8.
Around U16, I measure 5V at C161, and 1.22 at C163 (VDD_Core) - not sure if this is correct.
At Run, I measure 3V21 so 5V_CORE is OK
At C61 I measure 2V5 (AUD_2V5)

It seems to me that the power distribution is OK.
Did I miss something?
Last edited by paulv on Thu Jan 12, 2017 2:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

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aTao
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Re: Bricked pi2b after rpi-update.

Wed Jan 11, 2017 2:41 pm

You need to try the "killer" SDCard in another RPi 2B.
Perhaps, if The RPi Foundation are interested, they might try a copy of it in one of theirs too.

edit add:
also good to try a copy of it (in a new 2B) just to rule out some funky things with that particular card and your particular 2B
>)))'><'(((<

drgeoff
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Re: Bricked pi2b after rpi-update.

Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:01 pm

aTao wrote:You need to try the "killer" SDCard in another RPi 2B.
Perhaps, if The RPi Foundation are interested, they might try a copy of it in one of theirs too.

edit add:
also good to try a copy of it (in a new 2B) just to rule out some funky things with that particular card and your particular 2B
Even without a SD card a RPi2 should be drawing more than 4 mA. Hardware problem.

hippy
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Re: Bricked pi2b after rpi-update.

Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:33 pm

paulv wrote:What I still need is the cause of death to put on the death certificate, needed for burial permission. I can't except "natural causes" though, that still won't fly.
It does sound like something has damaged the hardware. Perhaps an actual hardware fault coincident with your rpi-update making it look like the rpi-update caused the problem when it was actually something else.

It is possible that some Pi software has set a GPIO pin as output high or low when that pin was tied to 0V or 3V3. That could damage and brick a Pi. For older Pi's it was potentially possible to brick a Pi through software setting GPIO pins which happened to be on-board connected to 0V. If software set those pins it could brick an older Pi.

I don't know what the situation is for more recent Pi hardware because full circuit diagrams are not available. You would have to ask one of the Pi engineers if it is still possible to do that and then determine if any firmware or software was causing that to happen.

Open Source allows everyone to check that what there is doesn't have any gotcha's lurking but the Pi is not Open Hardware so outsiders will never know what hardware gotcha's there may be.

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aTao
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Re: Bricked pi2b after rpi-update.

Wed Jan 11, 2017 4:22 pm

drgeoff wrote:
aTao wrote:You need to try the "killer" SDCard in another RPi 2B.
Perhaps, if The RPi Foundation are interested, they might try a copy of it in one of theirs too.

edit add:
also good to try a copy of it (in a new 2B) just to rule out some funky things with that particular card and your particular 2B
Even without a SD card a RPi2 should be drawing more than 4 mA. Hardware problem.

Sure, but did the card kill it? Putting the card in another 2B will prove if the card is a 2B killer. Putting a copy in another 2B will prove if its a killer image.
>)))'><'(((<

smokingwheels
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Re: Bricked pi2b after rpi-update.

Wed Jan 11, 2017 4:50 pm

Try Using Rufus to burn image and test SD card for bad blocks.

viewtopic.php?p=1096374#p1096374

gregeric
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Re: Bricked pi2b after rpi-update.

Wed Jan 11, 2017 4:51 pm

drgeoff wrote:Even without a SD card a RPi2 should be drawing more than 4 mA. Hardware problem.
Quite so.

With no SD card, you can see if there is any sign of life by performing power analysys.

The initial current draw from a living, ticking Pi is ~50mA with the VPU clocking at 19MHz, then after about 5 seconds when SD host attempted boot times out, jumps to ~80mA with ~100MHz clock. The USB hardware block is now turned on for a USB slave boot attempt - the Zero would appear as "BCM2708 Boot" in Windows Device Manager at this point.

If you don't see that power fluctuation, you know something's not working.

Have you checked the Pi2's 19.2MHz heartbeat paulv?

alphanumeric
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Re: Bricked pi2b after rpi-update.

Wed Jan 11, 2017 8:21 pm

Brocken Micro SD card slot? Or something inside it? Lint, dust, etc.

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