on2k17nm
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Worth buying 64GB card for Raspberry Pi 3 Model B

Wed Nov 23, 2016 3:30 pm

Is it really worth buying 64GB microSD card for my newly procured RPi3 Model B ?

When should I buy 32GB or 64GB or even higher capacity cards ?

PowPingDone
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Re: Worth buying 64GB card for Raspberry Pi 3 Model B

Wed Nov 23, 2016 3:35 pm

What do you plan on doing with your pi?

Tinderbox (UK)
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Re: Worth buying 64GB card for Raspberry Pi 3 Model B

Wed Nov 23, 2016 3:41 pm

A thread on 64gb and other sizes.

viewtopic.php?f=91&t=166326&p=1071928#p1071928

John.
Raspberry Pi 3 Model B

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karrika
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Re: Worth buying 64GB card for Raspberry Pi 3 Model B

Wed Nov 23, 2016 3:44 pm

My Jessie setup with compilers, Kivy developement environment, Retro compilers, streaming webcam support uses up about 14G. So 16G is ok.

If you have a habit to download all kind of stuff and keep your email archives on the SD card then 32G would be good.

For dedicated images like RetroPie a 16G is all you need.

But 64G is expensive in relation to the size. I would rather invest in a SSD USB drive. They are really fast today.

on2k17nm
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Re: Worth buying 64GB card for Raspberry Pi 3 Model B

Wed Nov 23, 2016 3:54 pm

karrika wrote:My Jessie setup with compilers, Kivy developement environment, Retro compilers, streaming webcam support uses up about 14G. So 16G is ok.

If you have a habit to download all kind of stuff and keep your email archives on the SD card then 32G would be good.

For dedicated images like RetroPie a 16G is all you need.

But 64G is expensive in relation to the size. I would rather invest in a SSD USB drive. They are really fast today.
My intended use is for collecting huge data from sensors - logging it to SSD disk, and then pushing it to cloud in batches of say few MB.

on2k17nm
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Re: Worth buying 64GB card for Raspberry Pi 3 Model B

Wed Nov 23, 2016 3:54 pm

PowPingDone wrote:What do you plan on doing with your pi?
Intended use is for collecting huge data from sensors - logging it to SSD disk, and then pushing it to cloud in batches of say few MB.

tpylkko
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Re: Worth buying 64GB card for Raspberry Pi 3 Model B

Wed Nov 23, 2016 4:03 pm

Is it really worth buying 64GB microSD card for my newly procured RPi3 Model B ?
Most likely no. This is because smaller ones generally have a better price/storage ratio. Not only that, if you need more storage other options are likely cheaper and more reliable and even faster than a large SD-card (USB sticks, SSD's HDD's etc). A single OS on a card will almost never "need" 32 or 64 GB. Even dual booting you can get by with 16 GB or with some OS's 8 GB.
When should I buy 32GB or 64GB or even higher capacity cards ?
If you want to boot numerous OS's from an SD-card, there are many of them and you cannot use the other methods mentioned above. Or if you get a really good deal or something.
Intended use is for collecting huge data from sensors - logging it to SSD disk, and then pushing it to cloud in batches of say few MB.
Were in this use scenario do you feel that you would need such high capacity? Sounds like you don't need an SD-card at all...

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Re: Worth buying 64GB card for Raspberry Pi 3 Model B

Wed Nov 23, 2016 4:59 pm

If you're going to use an SSD and a RPI3 then the likely hood is that you can start with a 8GB SDCard for just one boot. Get the RPI3 running the boot from USB/PXE code and move everything on to your SSD.

My RPi3 currently boots from a USB 32GB SanDisk stick. No SDCard needed.

It's still experimental but shouldn't be long before that USB/PXE code is part of the stock bootcode/kernel.
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Tinderbox (UK)
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Re: Worth buying 64GB card for Raspberry Pi 3 Model B

Wed Nov 23, 2016 5:38 pm

I have an Sandisk 16GB Extreme USB stick, It actually is an small ssd as it has trim and smart data.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/SanDisk-Extrem ... B00DZPUOTE

Image

John.
Raspberry Pi 3 Model B

mfa298
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Re: Worth buying 64GB card for Raspberry Pi 3 Model B

Thu Nov 24, 2016 8:14 am

karrika wrote:My Jessie setup with compilers, Kivy developement environment, Retro compilers, streaming webcam support uses up about 14G. So 16G is ok.
As a slight aside, At that point you should possibly consider an upgrade to a larger SD card (or remove some data). File system performance tends to degrade once you reach 70-80% capacity used.

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Re: Worth buying 64GB card for Raspberry Pi 3 Model B

Thu Nov 24, 2016 11:00 am

mfa298 wrote:
karrika wrote:My Jessie setup with compilers, Kivy developement environment, Retro compilers, streaming webcam support uses up about 14G. So 16G is ok.
As a slight aside, At that point you should possibly consider an upgrade to a larger SD card (or remove some data). File system performance tends to degrade once you reach 70-80% capacity used.
You are right. I need to clean up my home directory by moving it to another storage. Perhaps USB. Keeping only the OS on the SD card and all private parts on USB may be a good solution.

Koeshi
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Re: Worth buying 64GB card for Raspberry Pi 3 Model B

Thu Nov 24, 2016 12:50 pm

tpylkko wrote: A single OS on a card will almost never "need" 32 or 64 GB. Even dual booting you can get by with 16 GB or with some OS's 8 GB.
It is important to note the almost never part though as there will be a few exceptions. For example I have a 64GB card that I plan on using to play with Ethereum as the blockchain for it is reaching the 32GB point at the moment.

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Re: Worth buying 64GB card for Raspberry Pi 3 Model B

Thu Nov 24, 2016 3:11 pm

RACHEL Pi is one big reason for needing 64GB

offline wikipedia amongst other things:

https://racheloffline.org/
http://rachelfriends.org/rachel-pi-howto.html
Android app - Raspi Card Imager - download and image SD cards - No PC required !

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Re: Worth buying 64GB card for Raspberry Pi 3 Model B

Thu May 03, 2018 4:41 pm

DougieLawson wrote:
Wed Nov 23, 2016 4:59 pm
If you're going to use an SSD and a RPI3 then the likely hood is that you can start with a 8GB SDCard for just one boot. Get the RPI3 running the boot from USB/PXE code and move everything on to your SSD.

My RPi3 currently boots from a USB 32GB SanDisk stick. No SDCard needed.

It's still experimental but shouldn't be long before that USB/PXE code is part of the stock bootcode/kernel.

Hi Dougie, I know your message is from 2016, I was interested in the maximum size for an sd card to be used with a RPI3B, which actually loads its OS from the SD card.
Anyways, I understood more or less the fact that it all depends on different things and such.
But I am writing now since I was thinking about putting the os in a usb stick, I've been reading lately and I stumbled with OTP.
So, after a couple years trying the same thing, (as I understand), are you satisfied with the results? the time the os loads? Any further comments? Thanks for your time.

RPI 3B - SD card Sandisk 32 gb
RPI 3B+ - SD card Sandisk 32 gb

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Re: Worth buying 64GB card for Raspberry Pi 3 Model B

Fri May 04, 2018 10:42 pm

fyrulayz wrote:
Thu May 03, 2018 4:41 pm
Hi Dougie, I know your message is from 2016, I was interested in the maximum size for an sd card to be used with a RPI3B, which actually loads its OS from the SD card.
The Raspberry Pi computers support SD, SDHC and SDXC cards. SDXC supports cards up to 2TB (although none that large exist yet).

fyrulayz wrote:
Thu May 03, 2018 4:41 pm
Anyways, I understood more or less the fact that it all depends on different things and such.
But I am writing now since I was thinking about putting the os in a usb stick, I've been reading lately and I stumbled with OTP.
Is there something you don't understand about setting the OTP USB boot enable bit, or are you just worried that it can't be reversed?

You don't have to worry about setting that bit. It will have no detrimental affect on your Pi3B. Your Pi will still default to booting from SD card, so you can use it as you always have. The difference is, if there is no boot SD card, the system will look for a boot USB drive. So setting the USB boot enable OTP bit simply adds a feature without taking anything away.

The new Raspberry Pi model 3B+ has that bit set by default (set at the factory).

fyrulayz wrote:
Thu May 03, 2018 4:41 pm
So, after a couple years trying the same thing, (as I understand), are you satisfied with the results? the time the os loads? Any further comments? Thanks for your time.

RPI 3B - SD card Sandisk 32 gb
RPI 3B+ - SD card Sandisk 32 gb
Boot times are actually slower when booting from USB, because there is a 5 second delay before booting a USB device. Leaving an empty micro SD card in the system will reduce that delay, and then it all comes down to device speed. There is a new "A1" rating for micro SD cards, and they are very fast. I doubt a typical USB flash drive could beat an A1 rated micro SD card.

But boot times are only part of the picture...

Micro SD cards can get quite expensive in larger sizes, so if you need loads of storage then a USB flash drive or HDD would offer much better value. In fact, at the 128GB size the price of an A1 rated micro SD card is on par with a PC SATA SSD, and at 256GB the micro SD card is actually more expensive.

If you want performance and large storage you have the option of booting from an A1 rated micro SD card and using HDD for storage. Or you can boot an run the system from an SSD, which will offer good performance, but less storage-per-$ value than a hard drive.

See here for more info on using your Pi with a PC SATA SSD: viewtopic.php?p=1299538#p1299538
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Re: Worth buying 64GB card for Raspberry Pi 3 Model B

Fri May 04, 2018 11:35 pm

I'm currently working on getting my PIs to use an NFS drive for nfsroot, which will be much more robust, and allow much more storage, without the same dying issue that SD Cards have.

Up to now, I've been hitting issues, but I think that was down to the way I had the network drive set up, so I'm trying a different way, and once I get it going, I'll be posting.

Though TBH, the only time I see large storage being beneficial is either when using the PI as a database server, or retropie (which may need a lot of large'ish images).

Day to day use, 32Gb, or even 16Gb should be enough.

Whatever you are using it for, you don't want to be using an SDCard for high IO applications.
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Re: Worth buying 64GB card for Raspberry Pi 3 Model B

Sat May 05, 2018 2:14 pm

HawaiianPi wrote:
Fri May 04, 2018 10:42 pm
fyrulayz wrote:
Thu May 03, 2018 4:41 pm
Hi Dougie, I know your message is from 2016, I was interested in the maximum size for an sd card to be used with a RPI3B, which actually loads its OS from the SD card.
The Raspberry Pi computers support SD, SDHC and SDXC cards. SDXC supports cards up to 2TB (although none that large exist yet).

fyrulayz wrote:
Thu May 03, 2018 4:41 pm
Anyways, I understood more or less the fact that it all depends on different things and such.
But I am writing now since I was thinking about putting the os in a usb stick, I've been reading lately and I stumbled with OTP.
Is there something you don't understand about setting the OTP USB boot enable bit, or are you just worried that it can't be reversed?

You don't have to worry about setting that bit. It will have no detrimental affect on your Pi3B. Your Pi will still default to booting from SD card, so you can use it as you always have. The difference is, if there is no boot SD card, the system will look for a boot USB drive. So setting the USB boot enable OTP bit simply adds a feature without taking anything away.

The new Raspberry Pi model 3B+ has that bit set by default (set at the factory).

fyrulayz wrote:
Thu May 03, 2018 4:41 pm
So, after a couple years trying the same thing, (as I understand), are you satisfied with the results? the time the os loads? Any further comments? Thanks for your time.

RPI 3B - SD card Sandisk 32 gb
RPI 3B+ - SD card Sandisk 32 gb
Boot times are actually slower when booting from USB, because there is a 5 second delay before booting a USB device. Leaving an empty micro SD card in the system will reduce that delay, and then it all comes down to device speed. There is a new "A1" rating for micro SD cards, and they are very fast. I doubt a typical USB flash drive could beat an A1 rated micro SD card.

But boot times are only part of the picture...

Micro SD cards can get quite expensive in larger sizes, so if you need loads of storage then a USB flash drive or HDD would offer much better value. In fact, at the 128GB size the price of an A1 rated micro SD card is on par with a PC SATA SSD, and at 256GB the micro SD card is actually more expensive.

If you want performance and large storage you have the option of booting from an A1 rated micro SD card and using HDD for storage. Or you can boot an run the system from an SSD, which will offer good performance, but less storage-per-$ value than a hard drive.

See here for more info on using your Pi with a PC SATA SSD: viewtopic.php?p=1299538#p1299538
Thank you so much for you detailed replies.
My initial worry was the maximum size for the sd card, having already decided on 32 gb myself, it was out of curiosity I must admit.
But then, after reading about the fragility of the cards elsewhere, and the possibility of booting up from the USB ports, I headed to read on the different media on such ports.
My interest was addressed only to USB sticks at the moment, and yes, having experienced with microcontrollers the OTP term really worried me, now I thank you for clarifying that the OTP bit just adds one feature and disables nothing else. About A1 rated micro sd cards, both cards on my RPi's are class 10, but one is also A1, so thanks again for making that clear.
I am not using them for logging data or anything that needs a lot of space, I am only motivated by learning, and of course the usual things.
By the way coud you recommend any literature on the technicalities of RP3 for example the detail on the OTP. Thanks in advance.

By the way the link you suggested on Using your Pi with an SSD is another jewel, I read all the comments, there is always something to learn. Thanks.

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Re: Worth buying 64GB card for Raspberry Pi 3 Model B

Sat May 05, 2018 2:33 pm

coud you recommend any literature on the technicalities of RP3 for example the detail on the OTP.
https://www.raspberrypi.org/documentati ... bootmodes/


That entire section of the Raspberry Pi Foundation documentation is worth bookmarking if you are interested in hardware details: https://www.raspberrypi.org/documentation/hardware/

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Re: Worth buying 64GB card for Raspberry Pi 3 Model B

Sun May 06, 2018 8:34 am

fyrulayz wrote:
Sat May 05, 2018 2:14 pm
Thank you so much for you detailed replies.
My initial worry was the maximum size for the sd card, having already decided on 32 gb myself, it was out of curiosity I must admit.
Largest available at this time is 400GB, but they are :shock: :cry: expensive (well, the non-fake ones, anyway).

fyrulayz wrote:
Sat May 05, 2018 2:14 pm
But then, after reading about the fragility of the cards elsewhere, and the possibility of booting up from the USB ports, I headed to read on the different media on such ports.
My interest was addressed only to USB sticks at the moment,
SD cards and USB flash drives use very similar technology, so one is not necessarily more reliable than the other.

fyrulayz wrote:
Sat May 05, 2018 2:14 pm
About A1 rated micro sd cards, both cards on my RPi's are class 10, but one is also A1, so thanks again for making that clear.
The difference is in random I/O performance. Most USB flash drives and SD cards are highly optimized for sequential I/O, but are terrible at random I/O (really terrible). And unfortunately, much of what a computer OS does is non-sequential. The Class-10 rating is for sequential I/O, but it tells you nothing about the random I/O performance. The A1 rated cards offer superior random I/O performance, and as such, work better as an OS boot drive in a Raspberry Pi computer.

fyrulayz wrote:
Sat May 05, 2018 2:14 pm
By the way the link you suggested on Using your Pi with an SSD is another jewel, I read all the comments, there is always something to learn. Thanks.
SSD is the next step up in I/O performance. Unlike micro SD cards, SSD was designed to be a computer OS drive. Since the SSD will be connected to a USB 2.0 port on the Pi you won't see the dramatic improvement you would have on a Windows or Mac PC with native SATA, but an SSD will still offer superior performance on our little Pi computers. Probably overkill for most users, but for those that deal with a lot of file I/O it could make a difference.
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jahboater
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Re: Worth buying 64GB card for Raspberry Pi 3 Model B

Sun May 06, 2018 8:47 am

64GB cards are often a tiny tiny bit faster than smaller cards. Not enough to be noticeable in practice.

I buy these now ...
https://www.amazon.co.uk/SanDisk-microS ... Bcard&th=1

I second the suggestion to get A1 class cards.

Looking at the prices in the above link (price/size):-
>> 6.49 / 16
0.405625
>> 9.7 / 32
0.303125
>> 15.99 / 64
0.24984375
>> 29.99 / 128
0.234296875
>> 68.99 / 200
0.34495
>> 107.99 / 256
0.4218359375
>> 209.99 / 400
0.524975

It looks like 128GB is the lowest cost per GB for sandisk cards anyway (closely followed by 64GB).

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