bifurkas
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Re: CM4 launched

Thu Oct 22, 2020 5:27 pm

trejan wrote: Dual connectors like on the CM4 is quite common on other system-on-modules. They're nearly always spaced apart with one connector on each end.
Maybe. But this imposes certain restrictions on the technology of manufacturing the board.

W. H. Heydt
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Re: CM4 launched

Thu Oct 22, 2020 6:56 pm

bifurkas wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 5:14 pm
W. H. Heydt wrote: Don't you think the RPT folks tested for problems like that?
I am a practitioner. I do not use IO board, I make PCB and assemble boards myself. I do not know the capabilities of a RPT, but It will be difficult for me to properly solder the connectors
That's an entirely different issue, and one that has been noted in comments to others. I suspect that the RPT has a general expectation that *most* carrier boards will be machine soldered, though Dominic did mention soldering the connectors on the first prototype board by hand.

W. H. Heydt
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Re: CM4 launched

Thu Oct 22, 2020 6:58 pm

bifurkas wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 5:27 pm
trejan wrote: Dual connectors like on the CM4 is quite common on other system-on-modules. They're nearly always spaced apart with one connector on each end.
Maybe. But this imposes certain restrictions on the technology of manufacturing the board.
Stop for a moment to consider the intended market for CMs generally and the CM4 in particular. I really don't see this as a problem.

bifurkas
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Re: CM4 launched

Thu Oct 22, 2020 7:45 pm

W. H. Heydt wrote: Stop for a moment to consider the intended market for CMs generally and the CM4 in particular. I really don't see this as a problem.
I will remain unconvinced. Unfortunately, the use of CM4 is not available to me. In any case, the use of these connectors has narrowed the circle of CM users and increased the price.

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Imperf3kt
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Re: CM4 launched

Thu Oct 22, 2020 8:19 pm

bifurkas wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 7:45 pm
W. H. Heydt wrote: Stop for a moment to consider the intended market for CMs generally and the CM4 in particular. I really don't see this as a problem.
I will remain unconvinced. Unfortunately, the use of CM4 is not available to me. In any case, the use of these connectors has narrowed the circle of CM users and increased the price.
Are you an industrial user or a hobbyist who knows what he/she is doing?
If no, then you are not the target market.

Would you complain about not being able to get rocket fuel to build your own rocket if you weren't an astronautics engineer?
Or perhaps more suitable would be comparing getting ethanol-85 for your street car.
Last edited by Imperf3kt on Thu Oct 22, 2020 8:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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fruitoftheloom
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Re: CM4 launched

Thu Oct 22, 2020 8:36 pm

bifurkas wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 7:45 pm
W. H. Heydt wrote: Stop for a moment to consider the intended market for CMs generally and the CM4 in particular. I really don't see this as a problem.
I will remain unconvinced. Unfortunately, the use of CM4 is not available to me. In any case, the use of these connectors has narrowed the circle of CM users and increased the price.


https://www.digikey.co.uk/product-detai ... ND/1969495



If the products offered by Raspberry Pi Trading not suitable just look elsewhere for a suitable product.


Out of interest what factual evidence do you have that the design of the CM4

"narrowed the circle of CM users and increased the price"

It has only just been released.
The information is out there....you just have to let it in.

ejolson
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Re: CM4 launched

Thu Oct 22, 2020 9:39 pm

fruitoftheloom wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 8:36 pm
bifurkas wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 7:45 pm
W. H. Heydt wrote: Stop for a moment to consider the intended market for CMs generally and the CM4 in particular. I really don't see this as a problem.
I will remain unconvinced. Unfortunately, the use of CM4 is not available to me. In any case, the use of these connectors has narrowed the circle of CM users and increased the price.


https://www.digikey.co.uk/product-detai ... ND/1969495



If the products offered by Raspberry Pi Trading not suitable just look elsewhere for a suitable product.


Out of interest what factual evidence do you have that the design of the CM4

"narrowed the circle of CM users and increased the price"

It has only just been released.
I suspect the statement about increasing the price is based on the idea that a module with an SO-DIMM edge connector is cheaper to make than an equivalent module with two high-density sockets underneath. On the other hand, it is possible that putting all the traces on one edge would have necessitated another layer on the board or two, in which case the cost trade off is not clear.

Here in the peanut gallery, I can barely make out the difference between people who have built stuff and those who haven't.

In my opinion, it is impossible to tell how successful the design will be until many custom built carrier boards have been designed by independent third parties and then used in the field for some time. Hopefully, there won't be significant reliability problems, because the CM4 looks like a very sensible and versatile design.
Last edited by ejolson on Thu Oct 22, 2020 11:30 pm, edited 2 times in total.

W. H. Heydt
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Re: CM4 launched

Thu Oct 22, 2020 9:51 pm

Imperf3kt wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 8:19 pm
bifurkas wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 7:45 pm
W. H. Heydt wrote: Stop for a moment to consider the intended market for CMs generally and the CM4 in particular. I really don't see this as a problem.
I will remain unconvinced. Unfortunately, the use of CM4 is not available to me. In any case, the use of these connectors has narrowed the circle of CM users and increased the price.
Are you an industrial user or a hobbyist who knows what he/she is doing?
If no, then you are not the target market.

Would you complain about not being able to get rocket fuel to build your own rocket if you weren't an astronautics engineer?
An apt comparison when consider that it only takes a reasonable lay knowledge of rockets to know that kerosene--which is readily available--has been used as rocket fuel. First stage Saturn V, for instance. I could name other fuels that have been used that have varying degrees of avialibility...

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Gavinmc42
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Re: CM4 launched

Fri Oct 23, 2020 2:02 am

In my opinion, it is impossible to tell how successful the design will be until many custom built carrier boards have been designed by independent third parties and then used in the field for some time. Hopefully, there won't be significant reliability problems, because the CM4 looks like a very sensible and versatile design.
It is the first CM I have been interested in.
Already alternative motherboards are appearing.
Those connectors do seem a better solution than the SODIMM type from a vibration issue.
With the 4 screw holes it should be pretty solid.

Time to get one and try it?
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Gavinmc42
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Re: CM4 launched

Fri Oct 23, 2020 2:53 am

Another reason to get the IO board?
https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page= ... -gpu&num=1
6 screen Pi?
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trejan
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Re: CM4 launched

Fri Oct 23, 2020 3:05 am

Gavinmc42 wrote:
Fri Oct 23, 2020 2:53 am
Another reason to get the IO board?
https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page= ... -gpu&num=1
6 screen Pi?
GPUs don't work yet. Investigation thread over at viewtopic.php?f=98&t=288902

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Gavinmc42
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Re: CM4 launched

Fri Oct 23, 2020 3:28 am

Yet? :D
Thanks, will watch with interest that development.
Probably solved before any CM4's make it to Oz?
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Raspberries are not Apples or Oranges

W. H. Heydt
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Re: CM4 launched

Fri Oct 23, 2020 3:48 am

Gavinmc42 wrote:
Fri Oct 23, 2020 2:02 am
In my opinion, it is impossible to tell how successful the design will be until many custom built carrier boards have been designed by independent third parties and then used in the field for some time. Hopefully, there won't be significant reliability problems, because the CM4 looks like a very sensible and versatile design.
It is the first CM I have been interested in.
Already alternative motherboards are appearing.
Those connectors do seem a better solution than the SODIMM type from a vibration issue.
With the 4 screw holes it should be pretty solid.

Time to get one and try it?
If you can find a company with them in stock, then by all means. I've played some with the original CM and CM3L. I agree that the CM4 is interesting, and the most interesting thing (at this point) is the CM4IO board.

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Gavinmc42
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Re: CM4 launched

Fri Oct 23, 2020 4:03 am

I agree that the CM4 is interesting, and the most interesting thing (at this point) is the CM4IO board.
Yep the IO board if we can it, is not to badly priced.
That PCIe connector has some interesting possibilities.
https://coral.ai/products/pcie-accelerator

More stuff to learn :lol:
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ejolson
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Re: CM4 launched

Fri Oct 23, 2020 4:58 am

Gavinmc42 wrote:
Fri Oct 23, 2020 4:03 am
I agree that the CM4 is interesting, and the most interesting thing (at this point) is the CM4IO board.
Yep the IO board if we can it, is not to badly priced.
That PCIe connector has some interesting possibilities.
https://coral.ai/products/pcie-accelerator

More stuff to learn :lol:
Is there an FPGA that has been verified to work in that slot on the IO board?

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Gavinmc42
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Re: CM4 launched

Fri Oct 23, 2020 5:34 am

A quick goo goo, first one I found looks interesting
https://www.knjn.com/FPGA-PCIe.html
Verified is going to have to wait until someone does it.
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bensimmo
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Re: CM4 launched

Fri Oct 23, 2020 8:51 am

Gavinmc42 wrote:
Fri Oct 23, 2020 4:03 am
I agree that the CM4 is interesting, and the most interesting thing (at this point) is the CM4IO board.
Yep the IO board if we can it, is not to badly priced.
That PCIe connector has some interesting possibilities.
https://coral.ai/products/pcie-accelerator

More stuff to learn :lol:
Gumstix have already mode.a.board or two with coral on for you.

It would be interesting to see how much faster the direct PCIe interface than the usb3 one Google make.

racer993
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Re: CM4 launched

Fri Oct 23, 2020 9:58 am

I have looking around to actually buy the CM4. Until now I've only found shops that have none in stock.

The Pimoroni Website however mentions the following: No wireless ships early November. Wireless ships mid-November.

Maybe the Raspberry Pi foundation can shed a light on availability of the CM4 and CM4IO board?

X-Gen
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Re: CM4 launched

Fri Oct 23, 2020 11:50 am

I wonder if the 1GB versions will have slower RAM than the higher RAM versions?

I'm just waiting to see how TuringPi 2 will come out to be (in terms of converting the new socket to the old one).
They're using a 260 pin SoDimm, and the CM4 is still smaller than the Sodimm.
They're only populating a single CM per Sodimm.

https://turingpi.com/

Also, I wonder if the same speeds on the CM4 can be gotten as the Pi4B (including overclock). As the CM3 modules were slightly slower than their Pi3B counterparts.
If so, they'd need some heat sinks, and an active case fan.

hippy
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Re: CM4 launched

Fri Oct 23, 2020 1:53 pm

Gavinmc42 wrote:
Fri Oct 23, 2020 2:53 am
https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page= ... -gpu&num=1
6 screen Pi?
Oooh. That would be nice for building status and advertising displays with multiple monitors.
Gavinmc42 wrote:
Fri Oct 23, 2020 4:03 am
That PCIe connector has some interesting possibilities.
https://coral.ai/products/pcie-accelerator
I'm wondering if MindVirus is dreaming up something to plug into it.

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Re: CM4 launched

Fri Oct 23, 2020 2:19 pm

racer993 wrote:
Fri Oct 23, 2020 9:58 am
I have looking around to actually buy the CM4. Until now I've only found shops that have none in stock.

The Pimoroni Website however mentions the following: No wireless ships early November. Wireless ships mid-November.

Maybe the Raspberry Pi foundation can shed a light on availability of the CM4 and CM4IO board?
Foundation doesn't do production management, Trading do.

In short, we are in full production right now. Boards without wireless and IO boards should be available in a couple of weeks, wireless boards by December. Quite a few thousand of everything being made, so unless demand is very high those dates should be pretty accurate.
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6by9
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Re: CM4 launched

Fri Oct 23, 2020 2:27 pm

hippy wrote:
Fri Oct 23, 2020 1:53 pm
Gavinmc42 wrote:
Fri Oct 23, 2020 2:53 am
https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page= ... -gpu&num=1
6 screen Pi?
Oooh. That would be nice for building status and advertising displays with multiple monitors.
Support for Nvidia 710 cards is already being discussed - viewtopic.php?f=98&t=288902
Software Engineer at Raspberry Pi Trading. Views expressed are still personal views.
I'm not interested in doing contracts for bespoke functionality - please don't ask.

X-Gen
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Re: CM4 launched

Fri Oct 23, 2020 8:41 pm

Did anyone test the power consumption on those boards at full CPU (and/or CPU+GPU) load?

W. H. Heydt
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Re: CM4 launched

Fri Oct 23, 2020 9:23 pm

X-Gen wrote:
Fri Oct 23, 2020 8:41 pm
Did anyone test the power consumption on those boards at full CPU (and/or CPU+GPU) load?
Based on what we know from the Pi4B, the CM4 shouldn't draw more than 1.8A--2A at the outside since it supplies 3.3v back to the carrier. Personally, for a 12v supply for the CM4IO board, I'd be looking for something around 2.5A to 3A (or perhaps more) to allow power for the PCIe connector as well as the--up to 4--USB 2 ports. The HDMI, CSI and DSI shouldn't take much.

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