jamesh
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Re: Compute module 3 details?

Wed Jun 15, 2016 9:59 am

ivomilev wrote:Maybe the roadmap of CM3 could be changed because of this: http://www.theverge.com/2016/6/14/11936 ... er-holding

Also I think CM is completely not recommended for any industrial design & product since there is no clear support and roadmap from the SoC supplier. For me, this is the most important when someone wants to design a product with long term support and possible upgrade in order to be rival with other ARM SoC vendors ( like Amlogic ). Current CM uses more than 10 years old ARM instruction set which makes simple NodeJS based application to load for 2-5sec. Just not good for real-time embedded projects. It is just a good toy for educational purposes :)
CM3 will use, I believe, the A53 instruction set (64bit processors like Pi3).

Is that up to date enough?

And to be honest, I not sure what embedded projects you are thinking off that need that sort of power (or the 16GB of NAND mentioned above, what the heck? Learn to write better smaller and optimised code code, that what being a decent embedded engineer is all about!), but it must be pretty unusual. Most embedded devices I have worked on hardly task an Armv6!

And why are you using NodeJS for real time projects? That seems....odd.....
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6by9
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Re: Compute module 3 details?

Wed Jun 15, 2016 10:32 am

ivomilev wrote:Maybe the roadmap of CM3 could be changed because of this: http://www.theverge.com/2016/6/14/11936 ... er-holding
Element 14 are one of 2 licenced distribution partners for Pi, the other being RS. It will make no difference whatsoever.
ivomilev wrote:Also I think CM is completely not recommended for any industrial design & product since there is no clear support and roadmap from the SoC supplier. For me, this is the most important when someone wants to design a product with long term support and possible upgrade in order to be rival with other ARM SoC vendors ( like Amlogic ). Current CM uses more than 10 years old ARM instruction set which makes simple NodeJS based application to load for 2-5sec. Just not good for real-time embedded projects. It is just a good toy for educational purposes :)
Interesting point of view, but rather odd.

If you're designing a product, surely guarantee of supply is the key criteria. Broadcom as the SoC manufacturer will supply to Raspberry Pi whilst there is demand - can you say the same of any other ARM chip that you can buy to embed in your product.
The SoC is mature, so there is a minimal level of support required from Broadcom. Ongoing support is from Raspberry Pi Trading, and is exactly the same as any other flavour of Pi.

Future SoC roadmap is irrelevant if you're building a product now - either it does the job or it doesn't. It may affect your next generation, and reusablility would be nice, but you don't get that sort of information from any of the other ARM platform manufacturers either.
Performance of CM3 will be the comparable to the Pi3, so if you were designing now then prototype on the Pi3 for minimal cost, and switch to CM3 as it is available.
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ivomilev
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Re: Compute module 3 details?

Wed Jun 15, 2016 11:06 am

jamesh wrote: And why are you using NodeJS for real time projects? That seems....odd.....
Why not?! It has tons of good libs - from serving the hardware to implementing Socket.IO and sessions with Express. Everything in one language, in one app/service. Therefor TTM and costs are less. If CM3 will use A53 - that will be really great.

ivomilev
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Re: Compute module 3 details?

Wed Jun 15, 2016 11:16 am

Broadcom Corp does not exist anymore as well. They were acquired by Avago Technologies one year ago. I have 10 years experience in the chip market and I can assure you that a company roadmap can be changed dramatically when it is acquired. So please do not expect future BCM28 based SoC ;)

6by9
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Re: Compute module 3 details?

Wed Jun 15, 2016 11:47 am

ivomilev wrote:Broadcom Corp does not exist anymore as well. They were acquired by Avago Technologies one year ago.
Partly true. Avago Technologies completed the acquisition of Broadcom Corp in January 2016 (6 months ago), but have now renamed themselves as Broadcom Ltd.
ivomilev wrote:I have 10 years experience in the chip market and I can assure you that a company roadmap can be changed dramatically when it is acquired. So please do not expect future BCM28 based SoC ;)
The roadmap MAY change, not will. That is a discussion that Eben and co will be having with the new Broadcom Ltd bosses.
There are a large number of potential outcomes of those discussions and you are purely speculating. Please stop it unless you can back up your statements with reliable sources. (I'm assuming you're not one of those new bosses)

Pi has always been a bit of a quirky one - it isn't a great money spinner for Broadcom, but they have chosen to support it, and I for one am very grateful of that.
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Re: Compute module 3 details?

Wed Jun 15, 2016 7:34 pm

ivomilev wrote:If CM3 will use A53 - that will be really great.
That is as close to certain as anything you can't just walk out and buy right now. To use any other SoC would mean working with one that isn't used in any other Pi (and why would RPF/RPT do *that*?) unless they used the BCM2936 (used in the Pi2B), but in that case, it would be a "CM2", not a "CM3".

So...all in all, it's going to be a BCM2837-based device. It has already been mentioned by one tester that it works in the original CM carrier board. Beyond that, the features aren't known. Personally, I'd like to see it have 8GB of eMMC (and I think that's a lot more likely than 16GB), although that's not critical for what I want to do since some one of these times the full boot chain will be worked out to boot over the USB bus and flash booting will be optional, not required.

jamesh
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Re: Compute module 3 details?

Thu Jun 16, 2016 8:48 am

ivomilev wrote:
jamesh wrote: And why are you using NodeJS for real time projects? That seems....odd.....
Why not?! It has tons of good libs - from serving the hardware to implementing Socket.IO and sessions with Express. Everything in one language, in one app/service. Therefor TTM and costs are less. If CM3 will use A53 - that will be really great.
Because it's not even remotely a real time language? Seems to imply that your needs are not actually real time.
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piglet
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Re: Compute module 3 details?

Thu Jun 16, 2016 9:06 am

6by9 wrote:Pi has always been a bit of a quirky one - it isn't a great money spinner for Broadcom, but they have chosen to support it, and I for one am very grateful of that.
It's probably been the best publicity for a chip manufacturer that I can ever think of.

Before the Pi how many people outside the embedded system world had heard of Broadcom? They might have been vaguely aware that the name was written on the box of their router before they binned the box... but now everyone I know knows about Raspberry Pi computers. Most people I know have at least one in their household, and most of them know that the CPU is from Broadcom. Almost every press article about the Pi mentions Broadcom, and now due to the Pi's popularity any Broadcom related news gets headlines not footnotes.

That seems to me a very just and unexpected reward for a mighty fine good deed in supporting Eben in his venture.

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Re: Compute module 3 details?

Thu Jun 16, 2016 9:22 am

W. H. Heydt wrote:It has already been mentioned by one tester that it works in the original CM carrier board. Beyond that, the features aren't known.
You can see from the pins_cm3 section of dt-blob.dts that the CM3 has onboard external SMPS for core voltage as you'd expect (that was internal on 2835), & a GPIO expander to replace the lines used for the SMPS control.

Whether it works in the original carrier board I'm not sure, as that supplied the core voltage regulator's VBAT from the 3V3 / 1A regulator, which might not be beefy enough for the 2837 running at full tilt. It's a simple mod to divert unregulated, unlimited 5V on the CMIO to VBAT instead - I've done mine already.

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Re: Compute module 3 details?

Thu Jun 16, 2016 10:16 am

piglet wrote:
6by9 wrote:Pi has always been a bit of a quirky one - it isn't a great money spinner for Broadcom, but they have chosen to support it, and I for one am very grateful of that.
It's probably been the best publicity for a chip manufacturer that I can ever think of.

Before the Pi how many people outside the embedded system world had heard of Broadcom? They might have been vaguely aware that the name was written on the box of their router before they binned the box... but now everyone I know knows about Raspberry Pi computers. Most people I know have at least one in their household, and most of them know that the CPU is from Broadcom. Almost every press article about the Pi mentions Broadcom, and now due to the Pi's popularity any Broadcom related news gets headlines not footnotes.

That seems to me a very just and unexpected reward for a mighty fine good deed in supporting Eben in his venture.
I can't deny that, but Broadcom was never a company that sold direct to the general public. When buying a device did you care who made the ethernet, WLAN, or Bluetooth chips? Most of Joe Public won't, although you do get the Linux people who have to ensure drivers are available.

I really don't know the figures on what Broadcom normally spend on marketing, what their support of Pi has cost, and what margin they make on each chip. Someone has made the call to support Eben and Pi, and hopefully long may that continue.
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Re: Compute module 3 details?

Thu Jun 16, 2016 10:36 am

gregeric wrote:
W. H. Heydt wrote:It has already been mentioned by one tester that it works in the original CM carrier board. Beyond that, the features aren't known.
You can see from the pins_cm3 section of dt-blob.dts that the CM3 has onboard external SMPS for core voltage as you'd expect (that was internal on 2835), & a GPIO expander to replace the lines used for the SMPS control.
I don't think I'll get told off for saying that the CM3 module I have includes a BCM2837 - I thought Eben actually stated it at the Pi3 launch event.
gregeric wrote:Whether it works in the original carrier board I'm not sure, as that supplied the core voltage regulator's VBAT from the 3V3 / 1A regulator, which might not be beefy enough for the 2837 running at full tilt. It's a simple mod to divert unregulated, unlimited 5V on the CMIO to VBAT instead - I've done mine already.
As I said back in Feb on this very thread, I wasn't warned against connecting a CM3 to original CMIO. GSH is both one of the guys behind the Slice media player (using CM1) and also Director of Software at Pi Towers, compatibility is pretty much guaranteed as they'll want to upgrade their users.

There has been at least one discussion on potential changes needed. viewtopic.php?f=98&t=141306&p=935591 is the one I could find. I thought jdb or James Adams had made comment somewhere too, and I'd take their word as pretty much gospel on it.
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Re: Compute module 3 details?

Thu Jun 16, 2016 4:36 pm

gregeric wrote:
W. H. Heydt wrote:It has already been mentioned by one tester that it works in the original CM carrier board. Beyond that, the features aren't known.
You can see from the pins_cm3 section of dt-blob.dts that the CM3 has onboard external SMPS for core voltage as you'd expect (that was internal on 2835), & a GPIO expander to replace the lines used for the SMPS control.

Whether it works in the original carrier board I'm not sure, as that supplied the core voltage regulator's VBAT from the 3V3 / 1A regulator, which might not be beefy enough for the 2837 running at full tilt. It's a simple mod to divert unregulated, unlimited 5V on the CMIO to VBAT instead - I've done mine already.
There was a comment some time ago about the Pi3B power budget to the effect that 1A was allocated for the SoC, plus the comment from a person who is testing cameras with the CM3 that he was using a CM1 dev carrier board to do so. As a result, I think it is safe to conclude that the CM3 will work with a CM1 carrier, at least for some purposes. That isn't to say that there won't be an upgraded CM3 dev carrier board.

Edit to add: See the comment above this one...

rhildinger
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Re: Compute module 3 details?

Thu Jun 16, 2016 9:47 pm

gregeric wrote:Whether it works in the original carrier board I'm not sure, as that supplied the core voltage regulator's VBAT from the 3V3 / 1A regulator, which might not be beefy enough for the 2837 running at full tilt. It's a simple mod to divert unregulated, unlimited 5V on the CMIO to VBAT instead - I've done mine already.
Really? I'd be interested in knowing how you did that...

gregeric
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Re: Compute module 3 details?

Fri Jun 17, 2016 11:35 am

@WHH is your 1A figure budgeted from the 5V line? If so then the CMIO's 3V3 line for VBAT would need to output 1.5A to supply the equivalent power to the core SMPS...

@rhildinger simply remove R1, and take a short wire from the pad adjacent to the compute module, running it to one of the 5V smoothing caps near the full size USB. (The purpose of the mod for me was to allow more current draw from 3V3 for other stuff attached to the board).

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Re: Compute module 3 details?

Tue Oct 04, 2016 1:11 pm

Any updates on this?

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Re: Compute module 3 details?

Tue Oct 04, 2016 2:21 pm

philby wrote:Any updates on this?
Not until it's announced.....
Various male/female 40- and 26-way GPIO header for sale here ( IDEAL FOR YOUR PiZero ):
https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=93&t=147682#p971555

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