fanoush
Posts: 375
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2012 2:37 pm

Re: Matematica removed from raspbian image

Tue Oct 16, 2018 7:57 am

Oh, it is back, what a good surprise after a bad surprise. Thank you! So I guess no need to sack anyone then (even if møøse bites Kan be pretti nasti :-))

Also there is now 'Download installation script now' button at http://www.wolfram.com/raspberry-pi/ which is shell script that gets wolfram-engine and wolframscript debs directly from some CDN and installs them including dependencies. So it looks like the http://repository.wolfram.com/raspbian/dists/stable repository mentioned in first post (which was hosted by wolfram directly) is something old that worked at some point of time (according to google search) but is probably obsolete for a long time and won't come back anytime soon(?).

jamesh
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Posts: 20756
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 7:41 pm

Re: Matematica removed from raspbian image

Tue Oct 16, 2018 10:00 am

fanoush wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 7:57 am
Oh, it is back, what a good surprise after a bad surprise. Thank you! So I guess no need to sack anyone then (even if møøse bites Kan be pretti nasti :-))

Also there is now 'Download installation script now' button at http://www.wolfram.com/raspberry-pi/ which is shell script that gets wolfram-engine and wolframscript debs directly from some CDN and installs them including dependencies. So it looks like the http://repository.wolfram.com/raspbian/dists/stable repository mentioned in first post (which was hosted by wolfram directly) is something old that worked at some point of time (according to google search) but is probably obsolete for a long time and won't come back anytime soon(?).
I don't believe there is yet an official position on whether it will remain, but I've been off sick the last couple of days so have not been privy to discusssions.

And why would we sack anyone? The huge majority of people don't use Mathematica, and had to download it (700MB of the image was Mathematica!) anyway. And it could make a simple apt udpate take forever. On the whole, not having it distributed by default is a win for most people. Having it in the repo is a much better option, if Wolfram are happy with that.
Principal Software Engineer at Raspberry Pi (Trading) Ltd.
Please direct all questions to the forum, I do not do support via PM.

ShiftPlusOne
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Posts: 5343
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2011 5:36 pm
Location: The unfashionable end of the western spiral arm of the Galaxy

Re: Matematica removed from raspbian image

Tue Oct 16, 2018 10:07 am

jamesh wrote: I don't believe there is yet an official position on whether it will remain, but I've been off sick the last couple of days so have not been privy to discussions.
I'm not privy to the discussions either, but they are still ongoing and the details haven't been ironed out yet, so that's correct.

hippy
Posts: 3914
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:34 pm
Location: UK

Re: Matematica removed from raspbian image

Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:28 am

jamesh wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 10:00 am
The huge majority of people don't use Mathematica, and had to download it (700MB of the image was Mathematica!) anyway. And it could make a simple apt udpate take forever. On the whole, not having it distributed by default is a win for most people. Having it in the repo is a much better option, if Wolfram are happy with that.
And that's how many people said it should have been from the very start, so I guess everyone can be happy now. For the time being at least.

I note Wofram are still claiming "A full version of the Wolfram Language ... comes bundled with the Raspbian operating system".

https://reference.wolfram.com/language/ ... rryPi.html

"The Wolfram Language and Mathematica are bundled with the Raspberry Pi New Out of Box Software (NOOBS)"

http://www.wolfram.com/raspberry-pi

fanoush
Posts: 375
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2012 2:37 pm

Re: Matematica removed from raspbian image

Tue Oct 16, 2018 2:09 pm

jamesh wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 10:00 am
And why would we sack anyone?
I said there is no need ;-)
Letting the contract expire and then just remove it without telling anyone was a bit strange and may not be entirely intentional?
So when ShiftPlusOne announced it is back again the Monty Python phrase "We apologise .... Those responsible have been sacked." (which he could jokingly use in his post) immediately came to my mind.
jamesh wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 10:00 am
The huge majority of people don't use Mathematica, and had to download it (700MB of the image was Mathematica!) anyway. And it could make a simple apt udpate take forever. On the whole, not having it distributed by default is a win for most people. Having it in the repo is a much better option, if Wolfram are happy with that.
Yes, exactly, this is best way (also mentioned in the first post).
jamesh wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 10:00 am
I don't believe there is yet an official position on whether it will remain
No problem, if it is gone and then back again there are still enough Monty Python lines to handle that.

hippy
Posts: 3914
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:34 pm
Location: UK

Re: Matematica removed from raspbian image

Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:46 am

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/10/1 ... thematica/

"Wolfram Research told The Register that the initial five-year contract had indeed expired, but they had agreed to extend it".

All sorted it seems.

fanoush
Posts: 375
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2012 2:37 pm

Re: Matematica removed from raspbian image

Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:46 pm

It seems to me that something got lost in translation. I didn't notice anybody here wanted to put it back into image download. The question was only whether it will still stay in the repositories so it can be installed via apt-get. I wonder where the "That said, there's been lots of grumbling, so we might end up putting it back." part comes from.

hippy
Posts: 3914
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:34 pm
Location: UK

Re: Matematica removed from raspbian image

Wed Oct 17, 2018 2:13 pm

fanoush wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:46 pm
I wonder where the "That said, there's been lots of grumbling, so we might end up putting it back." part comes from.
Maybe we aren't party to all the discussions which have gone on and this forum and thread isn't the be-all and end-all of everything ?

I personally hope it isn't put back, remains as a separate package or download, or there's a full installation download with it and without it.

That seems the best option to keep everyone happy, those who want it and those who don't.

I guess they chose not to do that originally because they wanted to maintain only single full and lite downloads. Maybe it was part of the agreement; you can have it for free but have to include it in all full downloads ? I have no idea. -- Should have read the comments on the article before posting. Seems it was included because that was the agreement.
Last edited by hippy on Wed Oct 17, 2018 2:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

mikerr
Posts: 2729
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 12:46 pm
Location: UK
Contact: Website

Re: Matematica removed from raspbian image

Wed Oct 17, 2018 2:21 pm

hippy wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 2:13 pm
I guess they chose not to do that originally because they wanted to maintain only single full and lite downloads.
Or the original agreement specified it was to be present by default ?

Anyway it will remain available, and notice their site has been changed a few days ago specifically to add details of installing it in raspbian with a script.
Android app - Raspi Card Imager - download and image SD cards - No PC required !

ejolson
Posts: 2033
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2014 11:47 am

Re: Matematica removed from raspbian image

Wed Oct 17, 2018 5:16 pm

mikerr wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 2:21 pm
hippy wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 2:13 pm
I guess they chose not to do that originally because they wanted to maintain only single full and lite downloads.
Or the original agreement specified it was to be present by default ?

Anyway it will remain available, and notice their site has been changed a few days ago specifically to add details of installing it in raspbian with a script.
Having it present by default could have been a marketing move to increase visibility and expand the user base. I recollect that Wolfram and NeXT had a similar arrangement which allowed Mathematica to be present by default.

Having a default install that includes everything useful in a educational context is important because many teachers and students don't have the time or knowledge to custom tune the software on their Pi computers. As any cook knows, it is easier to add ingredients than to subtract them. That is why I usually start out with Raspbian lite.

At this point a document on how to add Mathematica to the default image and then replicate that image to multiple SD cards without having to reinstall Mathematica individually on each one could be useful for teachers.

szhorvat
Posts: 26
Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2014 2:07 am

Re: Matematica removed from raspbian image

Sat Oct 27, 2018 10:11 am

It's great that Mathematica is back in the Raspbian repos. Seeing that we can count on Mathematica being available for the Raspberry Pi, I re-added RPi support for my network-analysis and graph theory package, IGraph/M.

Return to “Mathematica”