Cubytus
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Get started with Pi without any external hardware?

Thu Dec 05, 2013 6:21 pm

Hi there,

As my first newbie question, I would like to know how it would be possible to get started with the Pi without any kind of external monitor, or keyboard. I thought a ready-to-boot Linux image, with SSH server enabled by default and perhaps Avahi-style server to help discovering it when plugged into Ethernet. Are such images available?

The rationale being that the Pi is a small and light board that can be used to supplement a laptop in more mundane tasks, and shouldn't require bulky or expensive hardware to get started. I also have a 13"CRT tv, but it probably won't give enough resolution for even a console configuration, so I don't count it as a monitor.

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DougieLawson
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Re: Get started with Pi without any external hardware?

Thu Dec 05, 2013 11:06 pm

You can easily run headless.

You may need a HDMI monitor to get it set-up and get raspi-config run and the network configured. But once that's done running it without a monitor is easy. PuTTY is my preferred SSH client on windows. JuiceSSH is the one on my Android tablet.
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Cubytus
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Re: Get started with Pi without any external hardware?

Thu Dec 05, 2013 11:20 pm

Oh thanks, but there is no HDMI monitor in here (nor any monitor, for that matter, except an older TV). Only TV at a friend's home. No intention to buy hardware that will be used only once (including wired mouse and keyboard)

SSH client is not an issue, though.

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DougieLawson
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Re: Get started with Pi without any external hardware?

Thu Dec 05, 2013 11:22 pm

Cubytus wrote:Oh thanks, but there is no HDMI monitor in here (nor any monitor, for that matter, except an older TV). Only TV at a friend's home. No intention to buy hardware that will be used only once (including wired mouse and keyboard)
You can do the initial install with a yellow RCA cable connected to your ancient TV. The keyboard and mouse are stock standard items that cost less than a tenner.
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Cubytus
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Re: Get started with Pi without any external hardware?

Thu Dec 05, 2013 11:37 pm

Would a 13" CRT be enough for that?

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redhawk
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Re: Get started with Pi without any external hardware?

Thu Dec 05, 2013 11:38 pm

As long as it has a composite or CVBS port you should be fine.

Richard S.

Cubytus
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Re: Get started with Pi without any external hardware?

Thu Dec 05, 2013 11:44 pm

For legibility, I meant. Of course from a technical point of view there's no reason it wouldn't work. I would like it to be comfortable enough so I can create a bootable image that wouldn't require any monitor for configuration.

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redhawk
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Re: Get started with Pi without any external hardware?

Thu Dec 05, 2013 11:55 pm

Just remember if you boot from NOOBS you need to press certain keys to enable PAL / NTSC mode - http://www.raspberrypi.org/downloads

Richard S.

Cubytus
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Re: Get started with Pi without any external hardware?

Fri Dec 06, 2013 12:12 am

I read that part before posting. But nothing was said about minimal size for legibility when using a tv as a monitor. I'd really like to have NOOBS directly find its way to a menu and start a suitable server for administrative purposes. Of course I could try and buy a Pi see what happens, but as I intend to use it in a mission-critical application, if it proves impossible, then it is useless. Not counting its not easy to find a Pi here, and preliminary comments I read elsewhere for my application are not encouraging.

Cubytus
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Re: Get started with Pi without any external hardware?

Fri Dec 27, 2013 11:08 pm

Just learnt existence of IPMI and other KVM-over-LAN. Is such a thing in the plans yet for the Pi?

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default_user8
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Re: Get started with Pi without any external hardware?

Sat Dec 28, 2013 4:13 am

Flashing the raspian image to an SD card without using noobs has SSH enabled so you can go headless from first boot. Then SSH into pi with putty, bitvise tunnlier(my preferance), connectbot for android(also my preference) etc, etc, and run sudo raspi-config.
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Cubytus
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Re: Get started with Pi without any external hardware?

Sat Dec 28, 2013 5:10 am

Like, only with a power cord and network cable connected? No local keyboard nor mouse nor monitor?

Ow, nice :)

Seems you just solved my issue considering purchasing a Pi !

henkg
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Re: Get started with Pi without any external hardware?

Sat Dec 28, 2013 7:03 am

Yes, headless from initial start works here also (raspbian). Of course only if ssh is enabled in the image by default.
Addition: For Putty you need the IP of the PI. In your router you can see which ip has been given to the PI.
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Cubytus
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Re: Get started with Pi without any external hardware?

Sat Dec 28, 2013 7:09 am

Why would I need Putty?

I understood that Rasbpian already had SSH enabled, isn't it the case?

ghellquist
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Re: Get started with Pi without any external hardware?

Sat Dec 28, 2013 8:23 am

Cubytus wrote:Why would I need Putty?
I understood that Rasbpian already had SSH enabled, isn't it the case?
Right. Putty is the SSH terminal you use in your PC, the "other end" so to say.

ghellquist
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Re: Get started with Pi without any external hardware?

Sat Dec 28, 2013 8:26 am

Raw images (from Downloads) can be run headless from the beginning using SSH.

NOOBS needs a little "tweak" before first start, see here:
https://github.com/raspberrypi/noobs#ho ... tall-an-os

// Gunnar

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Re: Get started with Pi without any external hardware?

Sat Dec 28, 2013 8:34 am

Cubytus wrote:Just learnt existence of IPMI and other KVM-over-LAN. Is such a thing in the plans yet for the Pi?
You can expect Linux to have solutions to just about any problem. Maybe not exactly the same solution as other platforms. As for KVM-over-Ip: Raspian uses tightvnc for the "server" end in the Pi. This program is available for installation (using apt-get).

Cubytus
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Re: Get started with Pi without any external hardware?

Sat Dec 28, 2013 4:00 pm

ghellquist wrote:
You can expect Linux to have solutions to just about any problem. Maybe not exactly the same solution as other platforms. As for KVM-over-Ip: Raspian uses tightvnc for the "server" end in the Pi. This program is available for installation (using apt-get).
Ok, I looked for it, and Putty os for Windows. There is no such OS here. Mac OS X has SSH built-in.

There are IPMI clients for Linux, but it needs to be hardware-supported.

Can all images, except the NOOBS, be run from the start headlessly? From other answers I got here and elsewhere, this was nor supposed to be the case, i.e. the Pi needed at least a keyboard and monitor for the first boot.

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Richard-TX
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Re: Get started with Pi without any external hardware?

Sat Dec 28, 2013 4:09 pm

I run many headless Rpis. The way I do it is to use Raspian. Once Raspian has initially booted, then I discover it's IP address using nmap. Then I ssh into it and it tells me to run raspi-config. The rest is academic.
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snipertyler
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Re: Get started with Pi without any external hardware?

Sat Dec 28, 2013 4:26 pm

I have never used any external hardware (minus a wifi dongle for ones without ethernet)
I also use linux mint, so ssh-client comes with it. Putty I think is the Windows way to go

Setup my internet pandora/radio player this way

Fyi, to setup wifi using the gui while headless, run "ssh -X USER@HOST" then "wpa_gui"
You'll need a (temporary) ethernet connection and a attached wifi dongle.

Cubytus
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Re: Get started with Pi without any external hardware?

Sat Dec 28, 2013 5:20 pm

DougieLawson said otherwise about the monitor and keyboard and mouse. And on another mailing list I was told this would be impossible.

Do tools ran through a remote command line continue to run when session is closed? In other words, do they all act as daemons? That's actually a UNIX logic I couldn't quite get until now.

_mlk_
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Re: Get started with Pi without any external hardware?

Sat Dec 28, 2013 6:19 pm

Depends on how you start the application (headless or not). If you use nohup ( http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nohup ) then it will continue when the connection is closed.

But if you are after an application to be a daemon then it requires a bit more set up (that is required regardless of headedness). Google has a ton of tutorials.

snipertyler
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Re: Get started with Pi without any external hardware?

Sat Dec 28, 2013 6:22 pm

Cubytus wrote:DougieLawson said otherwise about the monitor and keyboard and mouse. And on another mailing list I was told this would be impossible.

Do tools ran through a remote command line continue to run when session is closed? In other words, do they all act as daemons? That's actually a UNIX logic I couldn't quite get until now.
In previous versions (of Raspbian) ssh would not accept connections by default. This would render it impossible minus manually altering the files through the sd card. However, it is enabled now by default which means all that is needed of the raspberry is to have a network connection and your local computer, a ssh client.

After closing the connection, the programs will close (at least be sent a SIGHUP signal). However, in addition to nohup, you can install and use screen. Then they will continue after closing. I know that screen also permits "reattaching" of the terminal by using screen -r.

Cubytus
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Re: Get started with Pi without any external hardware?

Sat Dec 28, 2013 7:30 pm

snipertyler wrote: In previous versions (of Raspbian) ssh would not accept connections by default. This would render it impossible minus manually altering the files through the sd card. However, it is enabled now by default which means all that is needed of the raspberry is to have a network connection and your local computer, a ssh client.

After closing the connection, the programs will close (at least be sent a SIGHUP signal). However, in addition to nohup, you can install and use screen. Then they will continue after closing. I know that screen also permits "reattaching" of the terminal by using screen -r.
Considering how Google keeps on returning mostly crap results, I'd rather ask knowledgeable, real humans.

This post is really informative about the SSH access. I remember having used screen a long, long time ago, only once, but couldn't remember how it worked. Does it allow a user to "detach" from its SSH session, keeping programs running on the remote device, and "reattach" at will, only to watch if these programs sent a prompt?

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Re: Get started with Pi without any external hardware?

Sat Dec 28, 2013 7:45 pm

Cubytus wrote:
snipertyler wrote: In previous versions (of Raspbian) ssh would not accept connections by default. This would render it impossible minus manually altering the files through the sd card. However, it is enabled now by default which means all that is needed of the raspberry is to have a network connection and your local computer, a ssh client.

After closing the connection, the programs will close (at least be sent a SIGHUP signal). However, in addition to nohup, you can install and use screen. Then they will continue after closing. I know that screen also permits "reattaching" of the terminal by using screen -r.
Considering how Google keeps on returning mostly crap results, I'd rather ask knowledgeable, real humans.

This post is really informative about the SSH access. I remember having used screen a long, long time ago, only once, but couldn't remember how it worked. Does it allow a user to "detach" from its SSH session, keeping programs running on the remote device, and "reattach" at will, only to watch if these programs sent a prompt?
Yes, that is what I use screen for. It's a godsend.

Run 'screen' for the first time, then each time you then ssh in, run 'screen -rd' to connect to the old session and all the screen you may have had open.
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