Mike_Kee
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Nov 06, 2013 4:36 pm

Pi runs Noobs perfectly well, but...

Wed Nov 06, 2013 4:50 pm

... once Raspbian is installed and the Pi reboots, the display vanishes.

I'm using a TV as a display with composite output from the Pi. I know I have to press '3' to get the Pi to display through this mode and I tried that when the display vanished as I thought the reboot would probably have set it back to HDMI - doesn't work.

I'm using an Amazon Kindle charger as a power source, with a bog standard Dell keyboard and a normal mouse plugged in. The SD card is an 8GB SanDisk Extreme 30m/s.

Noobs was a clean install onto the newly formatted SD card from the NOOBS Lite v1.3.2 download and it started perfectly, allowing me to select Raspbian to download. This all worked fine until the download had finished and the Pi rebooted.

So, anyone else had this? Perhaps the power supply isn't up to it, or the SD card not compatible, but if so, why did NOOBS run perfectly?

Any ideas?

Mike K

Mike_Kee
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Nov 06, 2013 4:36 pm

Re: Pi runs Noobs perfectly well, but...

Wed Nov 06, 2013 8:10 pm

Just some additional info:

Checked the SD card contents after it went through the Raspbian download and reboot. The files and directories now present are:

defaults/slides/A
os/ (this is a completely empty directory)
bootcode
BUILD-DATA
INSTRUCTIONS-README
recovery-cmdline
recovery.elf
recovery.img
recovery.rfs
RECOVERY_FILES_DO_NOT_EDIT
riscos-boot

Not only that, the entire card has been named 'Recovery'.

Something not right in the State of Pi, methinks!

Mike

Phill Rymer
Posts: 207
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2012 3:01 am

Re: Pi runs Noobs perfectly well, but...

Wed Nov 06, 2013 8:22 pm

what are the lights showing

Mike_Kee
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Nov 06, 2013 4:36 pm

Re: Pi runs Noobs perfectly well, but...

Wed Nov 06, 2013 8:32 pm

Strong red and green for all lights when the NOOBS is running.

ACT light is dim once the Raspbian reboot has taken place.

Mike_Kee
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Nov 06, 2013 4:36 pm

Re: Pi runs Noobs perfectly well, but...

Wed Nov 06, 2013 8:33 pm

Sorry, thanks for the answer BTW!

Loved it when I could see NOOBS immediately, gutted when I could get no further.

ChadRpi
Posts: 51
Joined: Sat Nov 02, 2013 3:29 pm

Re: Pi runs Noobs perfectly well, but...

Wed Nov 06, 2013 8:52 pm

just install rasbian and see if that works.
Forget about NOOBS just install Rasbian on its own.

Make sure you have the hdmi cable. .. . or your video cable plugged in before you turn the PI on as it will not pick it up after it is turned on

Mike_Kee
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Nov 06, 2013 4:36 pm

Re: Pi runs Noobs perfectly well, but...

Wed Nov 06, 2013 9:10 pm

Thanks for the reply!

I'll give that a try. I need to do it via a windows app, as I can't simply bung it straight on the SD card, is that correct? Will check out the info.

Thanks again.

Mike

User avatar
DeeJay
Posts: 2027
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2013 9:33 pm
Location: East Midlands, UK

Re: Pi runs Noobs perfectly well, but...

Wed Nov 06, 2013 9:48 pm

Mike_Kee wrote:Just some additional info:

[posted content deleted]

Something not right in the State of Pi, methinks!
That looks perfectly OK to me. What makes you think it is not?

NOOBS is supposed, according to its documentation, to pass details of the working video output setting to the installed operating system.

https://github.com/raspberrypi/noobs#about
Display Mode Selection: By default, NOOBS will output over HDMI at your display's preferred resolution, even if no HDMI display is connected. If you do not see any output on your HDMI display or are using the composite output, press 1, 2, 3 or 4 on your keyboard to select HDMI preferred mode, HDMI safe mode, composite PAL mode or composite NTSC mode respectively.

Note that all user settings (language, keyboard layout, display mode) will persist between reboots and will also be automatically passed to the installed OSes. This means that if you can see the NOOBS interface on your display device then you should be able to see the OS CLI/GUI when it boots too!
It sounds as though that might not be working as designed?

NOOBS has its own Issue Tracker. https://github.com/raspberrypi/noobs/issues/117
How To Ask Questions The Smart Way: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
How to Report Bugs Effectively: http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/bugs.html

Mike_Kee
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Nov 06, 2013 4:36 pm

Re: Pi runs Noobs perfectly well, but...

Wed Nov 06, 2013 10:56 pm

Ha! All solved. Last post gave me a clue. I needed to click 'yes' for the Raspbian install to remember the screen output settings. You can't change them post-install.

Done!

Thanks for the help ;-)

Mike

Phill Rymer
Posts: 207
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2012 3:01 am

Re: Pi runs Noobs perfectly well, but...

Thu Nov 07, 2013 12:52 am

DeeJay wrote:
Mike_Kee wrote:Just some additional info:

[posted content deleted]

Something not right in the State of Pi, methinks!
That looks perfectly OK to me. What makes you think it is not?

NOOBS is supposed, according to its documentation, to pass details of the working video output setting to the installed operating system.

https://github.com/raspberrypi/noobs#about
Display Mode Selection: By default, NOOBS will output over HDMI at your display's preferred resolution, even if no HDMI display is connected. If you do not see any output on your HDMI display or are using the composite output, press 1, 2, 3 or 4 on your keyboard to select HDMI preferred mode, HDMI safe mode, composite PAL mode or composite NTSC mode respectively.

Note that all user settings (language, keyboard layout, display mode) will persist between reboots and will also be automatically passed to the installed OSes. This means that if you can see the NOOBS interface on your display device then you should be able to see the OS CLI/GUI when it boots too!
It sounds as though that might not be working as designed?

NOOBS has its own Issue Tracker. https://github.com/raspberrypi/noobs/issues/117
try changing source on tv hdmi is normally on a drop down menu your tv isn't set to it by default I hada similar problem changed settings it works ok

darrylpi
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2013 9:21 pm

Re: Pi runs Noobs perfectly well, but...

Thu Nov 07, 2013 2:20 pm

Hi Mike.

I am experiencing the same problem. Noobs (V1.2.1 - Built June 2013) worked fine. On reboot Coloured screen appeared for an instant and then screen whent blank indicating no digital signal. What did you click 'yes' too?

Thank you.

Darryl

Mike_Kee
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Nov 06, 2013 4:36 pm

Re: Pi runs Noobs perfectly well, but...

Thu Nov 07, 2013 3:28 pm

Hi Darryl

I didn't even get the coloured screen!

I clicked 'Yes' to the message that asked me if I wanted to make the display change permanent when I pressed '3' to switch to the composite port so I could see the NOOBs screen. The first couple of times I tried, I didn't do that, so I assume that when Raspbian downloaded and the Pi rebooted, it was back in HDMI mode and it was no longer possible to switch display modes.

Once I'd told it I wanted the change to be permanent in NOOBs, it re-booted into composite display mode once Raspbian was installed.

Not sure if that's any use to you!

Regards

Mike

User avatar
FTrevorGowen
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Posts: 5196
Joined: Mon Mar 04, 2013 6:12 pm
Location: Bristol, U.K.
Contact: Website

Re: Pi runs Noobs perfectly well, but...

Thu Nov 07, 2013 3:28 pm

darrylpi wrote:Hi Mike.
I am experiencing the same problem. Noobs (V1.2.1 - Built June 2013) worked fine. On reboot Coloured screen appeared for an instant and then screen whent blank indicating no digital signal. What did you click 'yes' too?
Thank you.
Darryl
Hi Darryl,
Which version of NOOBS are you (now) using? (1.3.2 is the newest)
What happens if you press/toggle the "video mode select key" (1,2,3 or 4) appropriate for your display type when the RGB splash screen disappears, and is the display on and (mainly for a TV) has the correct input selected before (re-)booting up the Pi?
Likewise, can you get into recovery mode by toggling "shift" once the RGB splash screen disappears? (Toggling sometimes works better than simply "holding down" "shift").
Trev.
Still running Raspbian Jessie or Stretch on some older Pi's (an A, B1, B2, B+, P2B, 3xP0, P0W, 2xP3A+, P3B+, P3B, B+, A+ and a B2) but Buster on the P4B's. See: https://www.cpmspectrepi.uk/raspberry_pi/raspiidx.htm

User avatar
FTrevorGowen
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Posts: 5196
Joined: Mon Mar 04, 2013 6:12 pm
Location: Bristol, U.K.
Contact: Website

Re: Pi runs Noobs perfectly well, but...

Thu Nov 07, 2013 3:42 pm

Mike_Kee wrote:Hi Darryl
I didn't even get the coloured screen!
I clicked 'Yes' to the message that asked me if I wanted to make the display change permanent when I pressed '3' to switch to the composite port so I could see the NOOBs screen. The first couple of times I tried, I didn't do that, so I assume that when Raspbian downloaded and the Pi rebooted, it was back in HDMI mode and it was no longer possible to switch display modes.
Once I'd told it I wanted the change to be permanent in NOOBs, it re-booted into composite display mode once Raspbian was installed.
Not sure if that's any use to you!
Regards
Mike
NOOBS 1.3.x assumes most NOOBS users will be using HDMI and so composite mode has to be requested and made "permanent" whereas earlier versions and "direct installed" Raspbian (via an *.img file) use(d) "auto-detection" of video mode depending on whether an RCA or HDMI** lead was plugged in. It is possible to use NOOBS recovery mode's editor to change the installed (Raspbian) "config.txt" to override NOOBS' settings to re-setup composite video without having to re-install.
(FWIW I noted the behaviour you observed during early beta testing of NOOBS 1.3.x)
Trev.
**Strictly speaking it's the HDMI connection that's detected, if that wasn't found, composite was reverted to.
Still running Raspbian Jessie or Stretch on some older Pi's (an A, B1, B2, B+, P2B, 3xP0, P0W, 2xP3A+, P3B+, P3B, B+, A+ and a B2) but Buster on the P4B's. See: https://www.cpmspectrepi.uk/raspberry_pi/raspiidx.htm

darrylpi
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2013 9:21 pm

Re: Pi runs Noobs perfectly well, but...

Thu Nov 07, 2013 8:55 pm

Hi Guys

Thanks for the replies.

My Raspberry is connected via the HDMI output to the monitor. I am using NOOBS V1.2.1 - Built June 2013. I do get a message "recovery mode hold shift" for a moment and then the screen goes off. How would one know if the keyboard and mouse are operational? I am going to try playing with the "shift" and "1" keys and then see what happens.

Darryl

User avatar
FTrevorGowen
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Posts: 5196
Joined: Mon Mar 04, 2013 6:12 pm
Location: Bristol, U.K.
Contact: Website

Re: Pi runs Noobs perfectly well, but...

Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:39 pm

darrylpi wrote:Hi Guys
Thanks for the replies.
My Raspberry is connected via the HDMI output to the monitor. I am using NOOBS V1.2.1 - Built June 2013. I do get a message "recovery mode hold shift" for a moment and then the screen goes off. How would one know if the keyboard and mouse are operational? I am going to try playing with the "shift" and "1" keys and then see what happens.
Darryl
Since you're using NOOBS V1.2.1 you might like to look at my old "NOOBS Installation Process" pages at http://www.cpmspectrepi.webspace.virgin ... stall.html , FWIW. I'm currently in the process of generating a similar page (or pages) for NOOBS 1.3.2 which supports multi-booting O.S', i.e. you can install one or more different O.S.' and subsequently select which one you want to boot into. The first part of the installation process is more or less the same as for 1.2.1 so that may be of help if you decided to give 1.3.2** a try.
Trev.
**http://www.raspberrypi.org/downloads
Still running Raspbian Jessie or Stretch on some older Pi's (an A, B1, B2, B+, P2B, 3xP0, P0W, 2xP3A+, P3B+, P3B, B+, A+ and a B2) but Buster on the P4B's. See: https://www.cpmspectrepi.uk/raspberry_pi/raspiidx.htm

darrylpi
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2013 9:21 pm

Re: Pi runs Noobs perfectly well, but...

Sat Nov 09, 2013 10:00 pm

Hi Guys

I held down the "shift" key got into the setup screen. I uncomented a line that sets the HDMI output as defalt and viola!! The whole thing installed and I got into the raspbian GUI.

Thanks for your support.

Darryl :D :D

rdb
Posts: 294
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2012 3:42 pm

Re: Pi runs Noobs perfectly well, but...

Sun Nov 10, 2013 11:45 am

So did NOOBS not persist your component settings to Raspbian and kept the HDMI defaults instead? If that's the case then it's a bug.

User avatar
FTrevorGowen
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Posts: 5196
Joined: Mon Mar 04, 2013 6:12 pm
Location: Bristol, U.K.
Contact: Website

Re: Pi runs Noobs perfectly well, but...

Sun Nov 10, 2013 8:21 pm

rdb wrote:So did NOOBS not persist your component settings to Raspbian and kept the HDMI defaults instead? If that's the case then it's a bug.
My understanding is that the O.P. (@Mike_Kee) was using composite video and appeared to have "fallen foul" of an issue I'd also noticed during beta testing (IIRC) - unless you declare that permanent on first boot before installing any O.S. then the O.S's are setup to use HDMI. It's not clear whether the current poster (@darrylpi) was observing the same issue, but he did imply, or think so in his O.P. Personally, so long as it's made clear to users that NOOBS expects the majority to require HDMI and that composite video is (now) a special case I think it's more of a documentation issue than a bug, since, so long as the user (still) has access to a monitor of the "setup type" and can invoke recovery mode, the settings can be changed. What I'm not sure about is whether it's possible to both trigger recovery mode and override any previously defined NOOBS "permanent" settings ie. does NOOBS' own boot process detect and act on both the shift key and a (possibly shifted) numeric video key? For example the largest TV screen in our house is quite old and composite only, but easier to use for initial setup (or photograph) than my smaller, but with better resolution, DVI & VGA monitor that is already shared between 3 Pi's (via an HDMI switch) and a netbook. The "sharing" of the latter make's it difficult to capture the first seconds of the boot sequence unless no other inputs are active.
Trev.
Still running Raspbian Jessie or Stretch on some older Pi's (an A, B1, B2, B+, P2B, 3xP0, P0W, 2xP3A+, P3B+, P3B, B+, A+ and a B2) but Buster on the P4B's. See: https://www.cpmspectrepi.uk/raspberry_pi/raspiidx.htm

rdb
Posts: 294
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2012 3:42 pm

Re: Pi runs Noobs perfectly well, but...

Mon Nov 11, 2013 6:22 pm

FTrevorGowen wrote:
rdb wrote:So did NOOBS not persist your component settings to Raspbian and kept the HDMI defaults instead? If that's the case then it's a bug.
My understanding is that the O.P. (@Mike_Kee) was using composite video and appeared to have "fallen foul" of an issue I'd also noticed during beta testing (IIRC) - unless you declare that permanent on first boot before installing any O.S. then the O.S's are setup to use HDMI. It's not clear whether the current poster (@darrylpi) was observing the same issue, but he did imply, or think so in his O.P. Personally, so long as it's made clear to users that NOOBS expects the majority to require HDMI and that composite video is (now) a special case I think it's more of a documentation issue than a bug, since, so long as the user (still) has access to a monitor of the "setup type" and can invoke recovery mode, the settings can be changed. What I'm not sure about is whether it's possible to both trigger recovery mode and override any previously defined NOOBS "permanent" settings ie. does NOOBS' own boot process detect and act on both the shift key and a (possibly shifted) numeric video key? For example the largest TV screen in our house is quite old and composite only, but easier to use for initial setup (or photograph) than my smaller, but with better resolution, DVI & VGA monitor that is already shared between 3 Pi's (via an HDMI switch) and a netbook. The "sharing" of the latter make's it difficult to capture the first seconds of the boot sequence unless no other inputs are active.
Trev.
Yes, it's important to make clear that NOOBS persists the display settings used by NOOBS to the OS *at the time of that the OS was installed* (which I think is a reasonable requirement IMHO)

User avatar
FTrevorGowen
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Posts: 5196
Joined: Mon Mar 04, 2013 6:12 pm
Location: Bristol, U.K.
Contact: Website

Re: Pi runs Noobs perfectly well, but...

Mon Nov 11, 2013 6:45 pm

rdb wrote:
FTrevorGowen wrote:
rdb wrote:So did NOOBS not persist your component settings to Raspbian and kept the HDMI defaults instead? If that's the case then it's a bug.
My understanding is that the O.P. (@Mike_Kee) was using composite video and appeared to have "fallen foul" of an issue I'd also noticed during beta testing (IIRC) - unless you declare that permanent on first boot before installing any O.S. then the O.S's are setup to use HDMI. It's not clear whether the current poster (@darrylpi) was observing the same issue, but he did imply, or think so in his O.P. Personally, so long as it's made clear to users that NOOBS expects the majority to require HDMI and that composite video is (now) a special case I think it's more of a documentation issue than a bug, since, so long as the user (still) has access to a monitor of the "setup type" and can invoke recovery mode, the settings can be changed. What I'm not sure about is whether it's possible to both trigger recovery mode and override any previously defined NOOBS "permanent" settings ie. does NOOBS' own boot process detect and act on both the shift key and a (possibly shifted) numeric video key? For example the largest TV screen in our house is quite old and composite only, but easier to use for initial setup (or photograph) than my smaller, but with better resolution, DVI & VGA monitor that is already shared between 3 Pi's (via an HDMI switch) and a netbook. The "sharing" of the latter make's it difficult to capture the first seconds of the boot sequence unless no other inputs are active.
Trev.
Yes, it's important to make clear that NOOBS persists the display settings used by NOOBS to the OS *at the time of that the OS was installed* (which I think is a reasonable requirement IMHO)
I totally agree. What is less clear, however, w.r.t. the pop-up box for composite video that asks "do you want to make this permanent?" (or similar) is that, if you answer "No" then HDMI settings will be passed to the O.S. I.E. the meaning/consequences of "permanent" are unclear. Perhaps the question should be more explicit, e.g.
"Do you want the current composite settings to be used by any installed O.S. after re-boot?"
Trev.
Still running Raspbian Jessie or Stretch on some older Pi's (an A, B1, B2, B+, P2B, 3xP0, P0W, 2xP3A+, P3B+, P3B, B+, A+ and a B2) but Buster on the P4B's. See: https://www.cpmspectrepi.uk/raspberry_pi/raspiidx.htm

User avatar
DeeJay
Posts: 2027
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2013 9:33 pm
Location: East Midlands, UK

Re: Pi runs Noobs perfectly well, but...

Mon Nov 11, 2013 10:33 pm

Perhaps the question should be more explicit, e.g.
"Do you want the current composite settings to be used by any installed O.S. after re-boot?"
Trev.
But I'm not sure that option is on offer?

What @rdb wrote was:
NOOBS persists the display settings used by NOOBS to the OS *at the time of that the OS was installed*
The little difference that caught me out is that the composite setting seems NOT to be inherited by the installed Operating System(s) if it is changed AFTER the initial OS installation.

Specifically: I use NOOBS on my 'big-screen' HDMI display to see clearly what I am doing during installation and configuration. If I then disconnect the HDMI and connect a more portable display that uses composite, I can re-enter NOOBS recovery mode and use screen modes 3 or 4 to get a display, and say that I want to keep that setting, but it has no effect on the display mode used by the OS(es) that have been installed once I boot into them. That's fine if it is understood and documented. But initially I was expecting more, and was puzzled when my installed OS did not honour what I thought was the new, composite, display option.
How To Ask Questions The Smart Way: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
How to Report Bugs Effectively: http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/bugs.html

User avatar
FTrevorGowen
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Posts: 5196
Joined: Mon Mar 04, 2013 6:12 pm
Location: Bristol, U.K.
Contact: Website

Re: Pi runs Noobs perfectly well, but...

Tue Nov 12, 2013 8:05 am

DeeJay wrote:
Perhaps the question should be more explicit, e.g.
"Do you want the current composite settings to be used by any installed O.S. after re-boot?"
Trev.
But I'm not sure that option is on offer?
What @rdb wrote was:
NOOBS persists the display settings used by NOOBS to the OS *at the time of that the OS was installed*
The little difference that caught me out is that the composite setting seems NOT to be inherited by the installed Operating System(s) if it is changed AFTER the initial OS installation.
Specifically: I use NOOBS on my 'big-screen' HDMI display to see clearly what I am doing during installation and configuration. If I then disconnect the HDMI and connect a more portable display that uses composite, I can re-enter NOOBS recovery mode and use screen modes 3 or 4 to get a display, and say that I want to keep that setting, but it has no effect on the display mode used by the OS(es) that have been installed once I boot into them. That's fine if it is understood and documented. But initially I was expecting more, and was puzzled when my installed OS did not honour what I thought was the new, composite, display option.
The "offer" to make composite video "permanent", and thus be passed to the O.S. appears if you are working with and select composite on a first boot of NOOBS. This may be the only time you can do that (other than by using the recovery mode editor on an HDMI setup to manually change the O.S. settings). Some of my beta testing was done with an old, but large (32") JVC (c.r.t.) T.V. and that's when I discovered that if I didn't use the permanent option I got no video on re-boot because (on checking the O.S. config.txt files) it had reverted to HDMI for the O.S.
Trev.
Still running Raspbian Jessie or Stretch on some older Pi's (an A, B1, B2, B+, P2B, 3xP0, P0W, 2xP3A+, P3B+, P3B, B+, A+ and a B2) but Buster on the P4B's. See: https://www.cpmspectrepi.uk/raspberry_pi/raspiidx.htm

rdb
Posts: 294
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2012 3:42 pm

Re: Pi runs Noobs perfectly well, but...

Tue Nov 12, 2013 10:34 am

https://github.com/raspberrypi/noobs/issues/142

Any suggestions for a solution are welcome. Will try to fix for the next release.

User avatar
FTrevorGowen
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Posts: 5196
Joined: Mon Mar 04, 2013 6:12 pm
Location: Bristol, U.K.
Contact: Website

Re: Pi runs Noobs perfectly well, but...

Tue Nov 12, 2013 6:51 pm

rdb wrote:https://github.com/raspberrypi/noobs/issues/142
Any suggestions for a solution are welcome. Will try to fix for the next release.
Thanks for raising a "formal issue" (I'm not {yet} registered on github). I'll re-visit the "first-boot" prompts/messages etc. for both composite and HDMI setups to check the current wording, probably take TV/Monitor photo's for reference before commenting etc. formally on github. I do have an idea or two that may help "absolute noobs" understand what happens during NOOBS' first boot better but I don't regard such as "urgent" but maybe a "good thing" as part of the next release. Meanwhile I'll continue to pay "special attention" to NOOBS queries here and also add more help to my own NOOBS guides once I've got the photo's etc.
Trev.
Still running Raspbian Jessie or Stretch on some older Pi's (an A, B1, B2, B+, P2B, 3xP0, P0W, 2xP3A+, P3B+, P3B, B+, A+ and a B2) but Buster on the P4B's. See: https://www.cpmspectrepi.uk/raspberry_pi/raspiidx.htm

Return to “Beginners”