cincfleet
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat Mar 27, 2021 1:58 pm

Upgrading to an ssd

Wed Apr 07, 2021 5:55 pm

Hi,
I am currently enjoying my pi 400 and am using it daily. The 16gb sd card is just about full, and so i have just ordered a 240gb ssd. Can i use that with two OS? I have two sd cards that I swap, one with the latest rpi os and ubuntu. Will i be able to copy both OS to the ssd and choose which one to boot to? or at least boot initially to the rpi os and then switch to ubuntu. TIA for the replies.
Steve

fruitoftheloom
Posts: 26829
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Location: Delightful Dorset

Re: Upgrading to an ssd

Fri Apr 09, 2021 4:51 am

cincfleet wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 5:55 pm
Hi,
I am currently enjoying my pi 400 and am using it daily. The 16gb sd card is just about full, and so i have just ordered a 240gb ssd. Can i use that with two OS? I have two sd cards that I swap, one with the latest rpi os and ubuntu. Will i be able to copy both OS to the ssd and choose which one to boot to? or at least boot initially to the rpi os and then switch to ubuntu. TIA for the replies.
Steve



PiNN:. viewtopic.php?f=63&t=142574
Last edited by fruitoftheloom on Fri Apr 09, 2021 7:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
The information is out there....you just have to let it in.

My other Linux machines: ChromeBox
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32966393971.html
& Stone Desktop Intel CoreDuo circa 2010

ejolson
Posts: 7236
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2014 11:47 am

Re: Upgrading to an ssd

Fri Apr 09, 2021 6:07 am

fruitoftheloom wrote:
Fri Apr 09, 2021 4:51 am
cincfleet wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 5:55 pm
Hi,
I am currently enjoying my pi 400 and am using it daily. The 16gb sd card is just about full, and so i have just ordered a 240gb ssd. Can i use that with two OS? I have two sd cards that I swap, one with the latest rpi os and ubuntu. Will i be able to copy both OS to the ssd and choose which one to boot to? or at least boot initially to the rpi os and then switch to ubuntu. TIA for the replies.
Steve

PiNN:. viewtopic.php?f=63&t=142574
My understanding is that neither PiNN nor NOOBS work without an SD card present because the boot partitions need to be on the SD card. However, I think the system root could be on the SSD.

fruitoftheloom
Posts: 26829
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Location: Delightful Dorset

Re: Upgrading to an ssd

Fri Apr 09, 2021 8:03 am

ejolson wrote:
Fri Apr 09, 2021 6:07 am
fruitoftheloom wrote:
Fri Apr 09, 2021 4:51 am
cincfleet wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 5:55 pm
Hi,
I am currently enjoying my pi 400 and am using it daily. The 16gb sd card is just about full, and so i have just ordered a 240gb ssd. Can i use that with two OS? I have two sd cards that I swap, one with the latest rpi os and ubuntu. Will i be able to copy both OS to the ssd and choose which one to boot to? or at least boot initially to the rpi os and then switch to ubuntu. TIA for the replies.
Steve

PiNN:. viewtopic.php?f=63&t=142574
My understanding is that neither PiNN nor NOOBS work without an SD card present because the boot partitions need to be on the SD card. However, I think the system root could be on the SSD.

Well then NoobS, PiNN & BerryBoot are pretty useless if can not run from USB MSD.
The information is out there....you just have to let it in.

My other Linux machines: ChromeBox
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32966393971.html
& Stone Desktop Intel CoreDuo circa 2010

cincfleet
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat Mar 27, 2021 1:58 pm

Re: Upgrading to an ssd

Fri Apr 09, 2021 5:51 pm

Thanks to all who replied, some interesting reading for me.
Rgds
Steve

User avatar
procount
Posts: 2510
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Location: UK

Re: Upgrading to an ssd

Sun Apr 11, 2021 9:33 pm

ejolson wrote:
Fri Apr 09, 2021 6:07 am
My understanding is that neither PiNN nor NOOBS work without an SD card present because the boot partitions need to be on the SD card. However, I think the system root could be on the SSD.
Actually, both NOOBS & PINN work perfectly well with USB & SSD drives. The boot partitions do not need to be on the SD card. They do need to be on the boot drive however.
Not all OSes can be installed to USB, though. They need to have the latest firmware and preferably support PARTUUIDS.
PINN - NOOBS with the extras... https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=63&t=142574

ejolson
Posts: 7236
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Re: Upgrading to an ssd

Sun Apr 11, 2021 10:34 pm

procount wrote:
Sun Apr 11, 2021 9:33 pm
ejolson wrote:
Fri Apr 09, 2021 6:07 am
My understanding is that neither PiNN nor NOOBS work without an SD card present because the boot partitions need to be on the SD card. However, I think the system root could be on the SSD.
Actually, both NOOBS & PINN work perfectly well with USB & SSD drives. The boot partitions do not need to be on the SD card. They do need to be on the boot drive however.
Not all OSes can be installed to USB, though. They need to have the latest firmware and preferably support PARTUUIDS.
Thanks for the clarification. It's good to know the same mechanism can be used to boot from different partitions of an SSD.

tramcrazy
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Contact: Website

Re: Upgrading to an ssd

Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:45 am

Just to go back to the basics @cincfleet do you have a USB 3 SSD? Or is it an internal one which you have a housing for? I know that Raspberry Pi OS boots fine off USB, especially USB 3 (2 is very slow) but as @procount said, you'll need to have a certain type of operating system for the Pi to boot from USB.
tramcrazy
I might be typing on a Pi, and I'm always willing to help with any issues.
My Pis:
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cincfleet
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat Mar 27, 2021 1:58 pm

Re: Upgrading to an ssd

Mon Apr 12, 2021 5:14 pm

tramcrazy wrote:
Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:45 am
Just to go back to the basics @cincfleet do you have a USB 3 SSD? Or is it an internal one which you have a housing for? I know that Raspberry Pi OS boots fine off USB, especially USB 3 (2 is very slow) but as @procount said, you'll need to have a certain type of operating system for the Pi to boot from USB.
Tramcrazy, I went for the Crucial 2.5in 240GB BX500/USB3.0 to SATA adapter cable, which I currently have booting to the raspi os, so far so good.
However I did order the Sabrent enclosure for protecting the ssd, it is listed as USB3.0 and the cable is USB to PI and a USB to the enclosure, i cannot boot with the enclosure setup? i have read that cables can be problematic!. :?:

tramcrazy
Posts: 24
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Contact: Website

Re: Upgrading to an ssd

Mon Apr 12, 2021 8:04 pm

Hmmm... So it works fine booting off the ssd with an adaptor cable, but not inside the enclosure? I assume the enclosure has a built in adaptor? That seems to suggest that the cable is compatible with the Pi, but not the enclosure. Can you post a picture of the setup? This'll give me a better idea of how it's wired up.
tramcrazy
I might be typing on a Pi, and I'm always willing to help with any issues.
My Pis:
Raspberry Pi B+
2 Raspberry Pi 0 Ws
Raspberry Pi 3A+
Raspberry Pi 3B+
Raspberry Pi 4B 4GB

cincfleet
Posts: 9
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Re: Upgrading to an ssd

Tue Apr 13, 2021 5:22 pm

Hi Tramcrazy,
So inside the enclosure is the SATA connector, however, the case is connected to the pi USB to USB.
The current working set up is uncased ssd direct to USB3.0 to SATA . Photos included as requested.
rgds
steve
Attachments
IMG_3157.jpg
ssd enclosure , internal sata connection. usb to usb pi to enclosure.
IMG_3157.jpg (24.4 KiB) Viewed 764 times
IMG_3158.jpg
usb3.0 to sata cable.
IMG_3158.jpg (23.47 KiB) Viewed 764 times
IMG_3156.jpg
current working set-up, uncased with usb3.0 to sata.
IMG_3156.jpg (60.66 KiB) Viewed 764 times

tramcrazy
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Re: Upgrading to an ssd

Tue Apr 13, 2021 7:46 pm

Thanks very much! It does seem weird that the enclosure doesn't work and the cable does, but it's probably because they use a different chip etc. When you connect the enclosure, does it seem to power up? I'm asking because sometimes the pi can't provide enough power for 'hungry' external USB devices.
tramcrazy
I might be typing on a Pi, and I'm always willing to help with any issues.
My Pis:
Raspberry Pi B+
2 Raspberry Pi 0 Ws
Raspberry Pi 3A+
Raspberry Pi 3B+
Raspberry Pi 4B 4GB

cincfleet
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat Mar 27, 2021 1:58 pm

Re: Upgrading to an ssd

Wed Apr 14, 2021 8:57 am

tramcrazy wrote:
Tue Apr 13, 2021 7:46 pm
Thanks very much! It does seem weird that the enclosure doesn't work and the cable does, but it's probably because they use a different chip etc. When you connect the enclosure, does it seem to power up? I'm asking because sometimes the pi can't provide enough power for 'hungry' external USB devices.
Yes the enclosure lights up and I get a steady flashing light, as if reading/loading, but nothing on screen.

tramcrazy
Posts: 24
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Contact: Website

Re: Upgrading to an ssd

Wed Apr 14, 2021 2:47 pm

If you plug the SSD enclosure into your computer, does it show up as a USB drive? If it does then this suggests a compatibility issue with the Pi.
tramcrazy
I might be typing on a Pi, and I'm always willing to help with any issues.
My Pis:
Raspberry Pi B+
2 Raspberry Pi 0 Ws
Raspberry Pi 3A+
Raspberry Pi 3B+
Raspberry Pi 4B 4GB

ejolson
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Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2014 11:47 am

Re: Upgrading to an ssd

Wed Apr 14, 2021 5:14 pm

cincfleet wrote:
Wed Apr 14, 2021 8:57 am
tramcrazy wrote:
Tue Apr 13, 2021 7:46 pm
Thanks very much! It does seem weird that the enclosure doesn't work and the cable does, but it's probably because they use a different chip etc. When you connect the enclosure, does it seem to power up? I'm asking because sometimes the pi can't provide enough power for 'hungry' external USB devices.
Yes the enclosure lights up and I get a steady flashing light, as if reading/loading, but nothing on screen.
Since the Micron BX SSD is already made of plastic, I don't see much reason to put it inside another plastic box. A good solution might be use the iitrust SATA bridge and return that other enclosure.

tramcrazy
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Contact: Website

Re: Upgrading to an ssd

Wed Apr 14, 2021 5:36 pm

Yeah, seems like a good idea @ejolson. A generic plastic case should be great to just enclose the drive in.
tramcrazy
I might be typing on a Pi, and I'm always willing to help with any issues.
My Pis:
Raspberry Pi B+
2 Raspberry Pi 0 Ws
Raspberry Pi 3A+
Raspberry Pi 3B+
Raspberry Pi 4B 4GB

cincfleet
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat Mar 27, 2021 1:58 pm

Re: Upgrading to an ssd

Fri Apr 16, 2021 7:19 pm

Umm, i have been sat in a hospital waiting room for most of the day, with time to kill i followed a Berryboot link, it is vast with loads of different os's. I think i need to revisit this post LOL. Food for thought keeps the grey matter active allegedly :lol: :lol:

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HawaiianPi
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Re: Upgrading to an ssd

Sat Apr 17, 2021 12:27 am

tramcrazy wrote:
Wed Apr 14, 2021 5:36 pm
Yeah, seems like a good idea @ejolson. A generic plastic case should be great to just enclose the drive in.
What ejolson was referring to is that a 2.5 inch SSD is already in a case (there are no exposed electronics like there are on a hard drive), so you don't need another case for the SSD, and using the adapter cable is fine.

tramcrazy wrote:
Wed Apr 14, 2021 5:36 pm
It does seem weird that the enclosure doesn't work and the cable does, but it's probably because they use a different chip etc.
There are problems with some USB-SATA bridge chips and the Pi 4B/400.

It can be a bit complicated, because both the chipset and the chipset firmware are involved.

The cable you have appears to be a common one that uses the ASMedia 1153E chip, and all of that style I've seen so far (with the blue SATA connector) have firmware version 141126a1ee83 which works well with the Pi 4B and 400. There are some other ASMedia based adapters with firmware that does not support TRIM, which isn't ideal for use with an SSD.

Adapters and enclosures based on the JMicron 0578 family of chips do not play well with Pi computers due to faulty UASP implementation, although that also may depend on the chip's firmware version (some supposedly work). There is a workaround of blacklisting UAS for those chips, but that reduces performance using Mass Storage protocol (still better than not working) and TRIM almost certainly won't work.

Also note that there are some JMicron adapter cables that look very similar to the ASMedia one you have (the USB-A plugs are a slightly different shape, but otherwise they look identical).

To verify which chips your adapter cable and enclosure have, run the lsusb command with the adapter or enclosure connected and post the output here. The cable will likely return something similar to: Bus 002 Device 002: ID 174c:55aa ASMedia Technology Inc... and the enclosure will be something along the line of: Bus 002 Device 003: ID 152d:0578 JMicron Technology Corp...
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lots of pop-ups...and where is that annoying music coming from?

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