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BerndGaykema
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New Raspberry Pi OS for USB-boot on Pi 4 ?

Sat Jul 18, 2020 5:56 pm

I have prepared my Pi 4 for booting with a USB MSD. So far so good.
When I "RPI-image" the latest version (2020-05-27) to a USB stick the RPi 4 will not boot. It tells me that I need newer software by visiting the download page. But the version there is too old .....

When will this newer version be available so that I can make use of USB-boot in a simple way (like I can already for years with my RPi 3B)?

I know that there is a work-around by copying some files from a proper SD-card to my USB-stick but that is too complicated.

Thank you.

W. H. Heydt
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Re: New Raspberry Pi OS for USB-boot on Pi 4 ?

Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:04 pm

The first thing to do with any new install is...

Code: Select all

sudo apt update
sudo apt full-upgrade
reboot
To get USB MSD booting to work, you also need to change to EEPROM...level classification, for want of a better term...from "critical" to "stable". You may need a couple more update/upgrade cycles. Use "rpi-eeprom-update" to make sure that EEPROM has a version no earlier than 15 June 2020.

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HawaiianPi
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Re: New Raspberry Pi OS for USB-boot on Pi 4 ?

Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:56 pm

It's unknown when a new image will be released. In the meantime here is a simple procedure I have tested that works on my Pi4B.

  1. Use the Raspberry Pi Imager utility to put Raspberry Pi OS (32-bit) on your SD card.
  2. Boot that card and run through the Welcome to Raspberry Pi configuration script.
  3. While the OS is being updated you'll have some time to kill, so open a terminal and enter the following command:

    Code: Select all

    sudo nano /etc/default/rpi-eeprom-update
    Change FIRMWARE_RELEASE_STATUS="critical" to FIRMWARE_RELEASE_STATUS="stable"
    Save the file with ^x y Enter (Control+X, answer Y for yes, then hit enter when it asks File Name to Write: ...)
  4. When the System is up to date, hit OK then the Restart button.
  5. After reboot, open a terminal and enter the following command (so you'll have July 16 bootloader with correct configuration):

    Code: Select all

    sudo rpi-eeprom-update -d -f /lib/firmware/raspberrypi/bootloader/stable/pieeprom-2020-07-16.bin && sudo reboot
  6. Now you are ready to plug in your USB drive and use the SD Card Copier utility to clone your card (make sure you select the New Partition UUIDs option). WARNING! This will erase everything previously on the USB drive!
  7. When that's done, shutdown your Pi4B and unplug the power supply, remove the SD card, then power it back up again.
    It should boot from USB.
  8. Celebrate your success. Good Job! Image

EDIT
Updated instructions for the newer 2020-07-16 bootloader. If you followed this guide and installed the June 15 bootloader, don't worry, next time you do an apt update/full-upgrade you will get it.
Last edited by HawaiianPi on Sat Jul 25, 2020 11:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
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cleverca22
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Re: New Raspberry Pi OS for USB-boot on Pi 4 ?

Sat Jul 18, 2020 7:23 pm

BerndGaykema wrote:
Sat Jul 18, 2020 5:56 pm
I have prepared my Pi 4 for booting with a USB MSD. So far so good.
When I "RPI-image" the latest version (2020-05-27) to a USB stick the RPi 4 will not boot. It tells me that I need newer software by visiting the download page. But the version there is too old .....

When will this newer version be available so that I can make use of USB-boot in a simple way (like I can already for years with my RPi 3B)?

I know that there is a work-around by copying some files from a proper SD-card to my USB-stick but that is too complicated.

Code: Select all

This board requires newer software
i believe this error happens if the hardware revision is too new, and the start4.elf is too old

Code: Select all

USB-MSD boot requires newer software
and this one only happens if you are booting from usb, but the start4.elf lacks usb boot support, so it wouldnt be able to load the rest of the files

both errors are due to the contents of the usb stick, not the eeprom, and updating the eeprom wont solve them, but its not entirely clear if those are the exact messages you got

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HawaiianPi
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Re: New Raspberry Pi OS for USB-boot on Pi 4 ?

Sat Jul 18, 2020 7:39 pm

cleverca22 wrote:
Sat Jul 18, 2020 7:23 pm
both errors are due to the contents of the usb stick, not the eeprom, and updating the eeprom wont solve them
Not surprising, since the most recent image is from May, and the USB-MSD bootloader was introduced in June. The procedure I outlined in my previous post will work on a new system and ensure you have the correct firmware and configuration.
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BerndGaykema
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Re: New Raspberry Pi OS for USB-boot on Pi 4 ?

Sat Jul 18, 2020 7:44 pm

W. H. Heydt wrote:
Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:04 pm
The first thing to do with any new install is...
... that EEPROM has a version no earlier than 15 June 2020.
That is all done in my "so far so good".

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BerndGaykema
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Re: New Raspberry Pi OS for USB-boot on Pi 4 ?

Sat Jul 18, 2020 7:52 pm

HawaiianPi wrote:
Sat Jul 18, 2020 7:39 pm
Not surprising, since the most recent image is from May, and the USB-MSD bootloader was introduced in June.
Exactly, and therefore I asked when the proper firmware will be available. It would have been better to launch the latest eeprom bin file (June 15) together with a RPi OS version which includes all the necessary files so that a warning message makes sense.

Start4.elf is not compatible
USB-MSD boot requires newer software
Get the latest software from https://www.raspberrypi.org/downloads/

The latest version is from May, currently in use :?

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HawaiianPi
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Re: New Raspberry Pi OS for USB-boot on Pi 4 ?

Sat Jul 18, 2020 11:41 pm

BerndGaykema wrote:
Sat Jul 18, 2020 7:52 pm
It would have been better to launch the latest eeprom bin file (June 15) together with a RPi OS version which includes all the necessary files...
Not as simple as you might think. For example, how do you deal with Pi4B models that don't have the updated bootloader? One solution I can think of would be to make the bootloader upgrade part of the first boot resize script, and I'm sure RPF/RPT engineers have their own ideas.

The June 15 bootloader has been moved to "stable" but there are still improvements that could be made, and I'm guessing a new image won't be released until RPF/RPT has come up with a simple burn-n-boot solution that works for everyone.

I've thought about making my own burn-n-boot image based on the current version, but I've only got two Pi4B computers and they've both been upgraded, so it's not a high priority. I suppose if enough people asked, I might get motivated.

So, how important is a simple burn-n-boot image now (as opposed to waiting for an official solution)?
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BerndGaykema
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Re: New Raspberry Pi OS for USB-boot on Pi 4 ?

Sun Jul 19, 2020 10:34 am

I see ...., being compatible is of course important. But forcing an eeprom update is the best way to go, but than Stable should be stable ;)
Well, it is not for my living... I try to prevent dead SD-cards by using USB-MSD's and that works ok on my old RPi 3. For my new project (creating a NAS around the RPi 4) I need USB-boot, otherwise I wait until an official release is ready (or nice people like you publish a version with the proper files 8-) ).

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DougieLawson
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Re: New Raspberry Pi OS for USB-boot on Pi 4 ?

Sun Jul 19, 2020 10:58 am

HawaiianPi wrote:
Sat Jul 18, 2020 11:41 pm

Not as simple as you might think. For example, how do you deal with Pi4B models that don't have the updated bootloader? One solution I can think of would be to make the bootloader upgrade part of the first boot resize script, and I'm sure RPF/RPT engineers have their own ideas.
That piece is part of the RaspiOS rpi-eeprom package. A fresh install of RaspiOS on an original RPi4B will automagically update the EEPROM boot loader with the current "critical" (aka stable) version.
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HawaiianPi
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Re: New Raspberry Pi OS for USB-boot on Pi 4 ?

Mon Jul 20, 2020 11:40 am

DougieLawson wrote:
Sun Jul 19, 2020 10:58 am
A fresh install of RaspiOS on an original RPi4B will automagically update the EEPROM boot loader with the current "critical" (aka stable) version.
Yes, but the "critical" bootloader is still the non-USB-MSD boot version. Also, when updated via apt, the bootloader configuration doesn't get automagically updated, which leaves the default boot order of 0x1 (only SD card boot). So even if you change /etc/default/rpi-eeprom-update FIRMWARE_RELEASE_STATUS="critical" to "stable" and apt update/full-upgrade, it still won't boot from USB.

To enable USB-MSD boot you need to update the bootloader and the bootloader configuration.

There are a few different ways that could be handled with a new image, but right now it needs to be done manually.
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Re: New Raspberry Pi OS for USB-boot on Pi 4 ?

Mon Jul 20, 2020 11:57 am

HawaiianPi wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 11:40 am

Yes, but the "critical" bootloader is still the non-USB-MSD boot version.
Ah, the stupid names win again. I thought the "critical" stuff was up to date. It's so confusing.
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Re: New Raspberry Pi OS for USB-boot on Pi 4 ?

Mon Jul 20, 2020 12:25 pm

DougieLawson wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 11:57 am
HawaiianPi wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 11:40 am

Yes, but the "critical" bootloader is still the non-USB-MSD boot version.
Ah, the stupid names win again. I thought the "critical" stuff was up to date. It's so confusing.
Dougie, let's try one more time. The names are not really stupid, though they may appear so from one (mistaken) perspective.
"Critical" means that ONLY really important (ie, critical) upgrades are applied. Thus avoiding the risk of breaking production Pis, or those in inaccessible locations.
"Stable" means that tested (post beta, ie, stable) upgrades can be applied, but anything still being tested is left out.
"Beta" means that upgrades still being tested can be applied, and the owner/user accepts the risks that go with that.

Therefore, it makes sense that the "critical" default setting is the most cautious -- even though "stable" will suit many users and more than a few (especially those active here) may choose "beta" on some of their Pis to help to try to break things.

HTH.
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W. H. Heydt
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Re: New Raspberry Pi OS for USB-boot on Pi 4 ?

Mon Jul 20, 2020 5:46 pm

davidcoton wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 12:25 pm
DougieLawson wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 11:57 am
HawaiianPi wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 11:40 am

Yes, but the "critical" bootloader is still the non-USB-MSD boot version.
Ah, the stupid names win again. I thought the "critical" stuff was up to date. It's so confusing.
Dougie, let's try one more time. The names are not really stupid, though they may appear so from one (mistaken) perspective.
"Critical" means that ONLY really important (ie, critical) upgrades are applied. Thus avoiding the risk of breaking production Pis, or those in inaccessible locations.
"Stable" means that tested (post beta, ie, stable) upgrades can be applied, but anything still being tested is left out.
"Beta" means that upgrades still being tested can be applied, and the owner/user accepts the risks that go with that.

Therefore, it makes sense that the "critical" default setting is the most cautious -- even though "stable" will suit many users and more than a few (especially those active here) may choose "beta" on some of their Pis to help to try to break things.

HTH.
There is the problem that the install default for RPIOS is "critical". so for any user that doesn't want to tinker with settings, it will be some time before USB MSD will automatically be enabled through a "normal" apt update/upgrade cycle. In that sense, the priority ordering of critical/stable/beta is somewhat broken. To make "critical" only apply "you REALLY need this" changes, the default should probably be better set to "stable".

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HawaiianPi
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Re: New Raspberry Pi OS for USB-boot on Pi 4 ?

Mon Jul 20, 2020 11:54 pm

W. H. Heydt wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 5:46 pm
... the default should probably be better set to "stable".
I would argue that "any user that doesn't want to tinker with settings" would be unlikely to use an advanced feature like USB-MSD boot. And if they do choose to go that route, they need to learn to tinker with settings to do it properly.

FIRMWARE_RELEASE_STATUS="critical" is just fine for the vast majority of users that don't want to tinker with settings.
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Re: New Raspberry Pi OS for USB-boot on Pi 4 ?

Tue Jul 21, 2020 12:13 am

HawaiianPi wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 11:54 pm
W. H. Heydt wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 5:46 pm
... the default should probably be better set to "stable".
I would argue that "any user that doesn't want to tinker with settings" would be unlikely to use an advanced feature like USB-MSD boot. And if they do choose to go that route, they need to learn to tinker with settings to do it properly.

FIRMWARE_RELEASE_STATUS="critical" is just fine for the vast majority of users that don't want to tinker with settings.
We'll have to agree to disagree on that. I can see more people being interested USB MSD, especially as Pis get faster and more able to use both faster and larger mass storage devices, than are interested in changing fundamental system settings. I don't think there's a line there, rather it's a fairly broad grey area. If that were not the case, this--and some other--threads wouldn't exist...especially in the Beginners forum.

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Re: New Raspberry Pi OS for USB-boot on Pi 4 ?

Tue Jul 21, 2020 1:39 am

"Critical" is supported hence is the default.

"Beta" and "Stable" are unsupported hence are not suitable for the majority of users, plus new features in "Beta" and "Stable" may be withdrawn.

Although highly unlikely, it is not impossible that USB-boot may never be formally released and supported, the development team need that flexibility in the testing phases.

22over7
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Re: New Raspberry Pi OS for USB-boot on Pi 4 ?

Tue Jul 21, 2020 5:00 am

I have a pi4 with the latest full-upgrade, running 32 bit Raspberry OS with 5.4 kernel and "critical" firmware. I would like to run the 64 bit Raspberry OS beta on SSD. I want to confirm that the following is the correct procedure:

(a) Follow Step 1-5 of @HawaiianPi's instruction

(b) Instead of cloning the sdcard onto the ssd, using e.g. RPi image writer to write the 64 bit Raspberry image onto the ssd

(c) Copy all the *.dat and *.elf files from the 32 bit sdcard to the 64 bit ssd <--- ?

(d) Remove the sdcard, connect the ssd and power up the pi

Step (c) sounds weird --- I thought I would need the 64 bit version .dat and .elf ? --- but since I'm running 32 bit OS where do I get 64 bit version?

Many thanks for your help and clarification.

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Re: New Raspberry Pi OS for USB-boot on Pi 4 ?

Tue Jul 21, 2020 6:50 am

We've started releasing Raspberry Pi OS test images which contain the latest versions of the APT packages plus rpi-update kernel and firmware. The images can be installed via your usual disk imager program.

Hopefully, this should make it easier for non-expert users to try an experimental OS release on a spare SD card and be able to report bugs against a specific release. However, this is still test software so normal warnings about possible data loss etc apply.

http://downloads.raspberrypi.org/nightlies/

N.B. At the moment the 'nightly' images are actually manually triggered when a new rpi-update release is made, however, this does avoid having duplicate images there.

fruitoftheloom
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Re: New Raspberry Pi OS for USB-boot on Pi 4 ?

Tue Jul 21, 2020 7:03 am

timg236 wrote:
Tue Jul 21, 2020 6:50 am
We've started releasing Raspberry Pi OS test images which contain the latest versions of the APT packages plus rpi-update kernel and firmware. The images can be installed via your usual disk imager program.

Hopefully, this should make it easier for non-expert users to try an experimental OS release on a spare SD card and be able to report bugs against a specific release. However, this is still test software so normal warnings about possible data loss etc apply.

http://downloads.raspberrypi.org/nightlies/

N.B. At the moment the 'nightly' images are actually manually triggered when a new rpi-update release is made, however, this does avoid having duplicate images there.

Where are the RaspiOS64 Beta nighties ??
Take what I advise as advice not the utopian holy grail, and it is gratis !!

timg236
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Re: New Raspberry Pi OS for USB-boot on Pi 4 ?

Tue Jul 21, 2020 7:05 am

There aren't any

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B.Goode
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Re: New Raspberry Pi OS for USB-boot on Pi 4 ?

Tue Jul 21, 2020 7:27 am

fruitoftheloom wrote:
Tue Jul 21, 2020 7:03 am


Where are the RaspiOS64 Beta nighties ??


They are all in the wash. Try pyjamas instead.

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HawaiianPi
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Re: New Raspberry Pi OS for USB-boot on Pi 4 ?

Tue Jul 21, 2020 12:48 pm

22over7 wrote:
Tue Jul 21, 2020 5:00 am
I have a pi4 with the latest full-upgrade, running 32 bit Raspberry OS with 5.4 kernel and "critical" firmware. I would like to run the 64 bit Raspberry OS beta on SSD. I want to confirm that the following is the correct procedure:
You could start with the 64-bit beta OS on SD card and follow my guide.

Or you could use a recovery image with the newer bootloader to upgrade.

What you propose might work without having to copy any *.dat or *.elf files, since the 64-bit beta was released after the USB-MSD beta bootloader (it might already have compatible firmware). Haven't tried that myself, but someone else reported it worked for them.
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22over7
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Re: New Raspberry Pi OS for USB-boot on Pi 4 ?

Tue Jul 21, 2020 5:48 pm

HawaiianPi wrote:
Tue Jul 21, 2020 12:48 pm
What you propose might work without having to copy any *.dat or *.elf files, since the 64-bit beta was released after the USB-MSD beta bootloader (it might already have compatible firmware). Haven't tried that myself, but someone else reported it worked for them.
I bite the bullet and install the 64 bit OS onto the ssd without copying any .dat and .elf, and it works! Unfortunately a couple of the programs I need are not yet 64-bit ready (I knew that but I thought I would give it a shot). No big deal; back to 32 bit and wait...

Thanks so much!

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BerndGaykema
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Re: New Raspberry Pi OS for USB-boot on Pi 4 ?

Thu Jul 23, 2020 8:05 pm

timg236 wrote:
Tue Jul 21, 2020 6:50 am
We've started releasing Raspberry Pi OS test images which contain the latest versions of the APT packages plus rpi-update kernel and firmware. The images can be installed via your usual disk imager program.

http://downloads.raspberrypi.org/nightlies/
This is the answer I was waiting for. Will give it a go when I am back at home! THANKS!!

July 24:
Regarding booting I can confirm that it is working. I have the nightly build from July 23 installed on my Sandisk Cruzer Fit Flash drive 16 GB and the Pi4 is booting from it without any problem.
Super!

Please make it available for all released versions (also light), would be highly appreciated by many users of your wonderful RPi.

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