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Remove the wireless card
Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 11:56 pm
by two4one
Is it possible to remove the wireless card from the pi4? (No internet/ No Bluetooth)
241
Re: Remove the wireless card
Posted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 8:26 am
by DougieLawson
There is no "wireless card" it's integrated hardware on the single board computer.
You can disable wireless in software. Use the rfkill program.
Re: Remove the wireless card
Posted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 8:12 pm
by Botspot
I believe the wireless parts are located under the RF shield on the Pi 4.
- rf shield.jpeg (66.7 KiB) Viewed 1230 times
Looking at the
mechanical drawing of the Pi 4, it appears there is quite a cluster of components under the RF shield.
- 2020-01-18-140714_1280x1024_scrot.png (22.32 KiB) Viewed 1230 times
Like Dougie said, the 'proper' way to disable WiFi and Bluetooth would be by using software. But, if you want 'FBI-level' disabling, ie - no possible way to hack it to work, then I suppose you could rip off the RF shield and then break the components off one by one until WiFi no longer works.
I am NOT recommending you do this, but just pointing out it is "possible to remove the wireless
card COMPONENTS from the pi4".
Edit for clarification: This is a
terrible idea - you stand a good change breaking your Pi in the process. Disabling wireless by software is the "proper" way to do it, and this post just shows that a theoretically physical way is
possible, not necessarily a good idea.
Re: Remove the wireless card
Posted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 8:28 pm
by DirkS
Botspot wrote: ↑Sat Jan 18, 2020 8:12 pm
But, if you want 'FBI-level' disabling, ie - no possible way to hack it to work, then I suppose you could rip off the RF shield and then break the components off one by one until WiFi no longer works.
I am NOT recommending you do this, but just pointing out it is "possible to remove the wireless card from the pi4".
And you are taking responsibility if this actually disables the Pi permanently?
Have you tried this yourself?
Re: Remove the wireless card
Posted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 8:45 pm
by Botspot
DirkS wrote: ↑Sat Jan 18, 2020 8:28 pm
Botspot wrote: ↑Sat Jan 18, 2020 8:12 pm
But, if you want 'FBI-level' disabling, ie - no possible way to hack it to work, then I suppose you could rip off the RF shield and then break the components off one by one until WiFi no longer works.
I am NOT recommending you do this, but just pointing out it is "possible to remove the wireless card from the pi4".
And you are taking responsibility if this actually disables the Pi permanently?
Have you tried this yourself?
No, I have not tried it my self (Not planning to either), and as a rule of thumb, you assume all responsibility when you follow the advice of some random guy on the Internet. (No, I cannot guarantee my advice is accurate and cannot guarantee will not break your Pi)
Re: Remove the wireless card
Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 2:03 am
by mahjongg
two4one wrote: ↑Fri Jan 17, 2020 11:56 pm
Is it possible to remove the wireless card from the pi4? (No internet/ No Bluetooth)
241
NO!!
It is NOT possible to remove the "wireless card" from the RPI4 because it has none!
The wireless functionality is integrated, and nor physically removable, suggestions toward this are made jokingly!
Re: Remove the wireless card
Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 2:56 am
by W. H. Heydt
The way to get a Pi without wireless is to buy a Pi2B. If thinking in terms of the Pi4B, the best option would be the P2Bv1.2.
A desire for a Pi4-class board without WiFi or BT would argue for a P2Bv1.3 which would be a Pi4B without the wireless circuitry. (I would buy a bunch of them--probably a 2GB variant.) It would have the advantage of--potentially--helping to phase out the BCM2837. However, I seriously doubt it would be a popular enough to be a viable product. Pity...
Re: Remove the wireless card
Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 6:54 am
by lpsw
241,
Is you goal to physically or logically remove wifi/bt?
If the latter, it can be done by disabling in /boot/config.txt.
Code: Select all
#dtoverlay=pi3-disable-wifi
#dtoverlay=pi3-disable-bt
Re: Remove the wireless card
Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 8:33 am
by rpdom
lpsw wrote: ↑Sun Jan 19, 2020 6:54 am
241,
Is you goal to physically or logically remove wifi/bt?
If the latter, it can be done by disabling in /boot/config.txt.
Code: Select all
#dtoverlay=pi3-disable-wifi
#dtoverlay=pi3-disable-bt
But you'd need to remove the "#" from the start of those lines, or they will do nothing.
Re: Remove the wireless card
Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 2:56 pm
by lpsw
Oops sorry. I thought I edited that post to remove them.
Re: Remove the wireless card
Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 3:29 pm
by hippy
To physically disable WiFi/Bluetooth you could disconnect the power from the WiFi/Bluetooth chip which should prevent its operation. You would have to test to check that is the case and that it doesn't have other adverse operational consequences.
According to the post below; the chip's power is the WB_VBAT signal shown in the reduced schematics, which could be disconnected simply by removing D2 -
https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/view ... 0#p1594998
The advantages of only removing D2 is that it's easy to do, easy to replace if you want to re-enable WiFi/Bluetooth, and you could make D2 switch operated so you can turn it on and off on a whim.
If D2 were removed, you would also need to remove R17 and link Q1/D3 via a 1K or higher resistor to 5V to allow the power LED to work as it originally did.
Any such circuit surgery would not be recommended, would void any warranty you have, may not work, and would be undertaken solely at your own risk.
Re: Remove the wireless card
Posted: Wed Jun 24, 2020 9:40 am
by imspyguy
If I might suggest.... I think there would be a use for pi 4 boards with no wifi. There is a large industry I think that might find a use for these little guys if they didn't have the wifi embedded. Just a suggestion.
Great device either way!!! Compliments all around!!
JB
Re: Remove the wireless card
Posted: Wed Jun 24, 2020 1:23 pm
by hippy
imspyguy wrote: ↑Wed Jun 24, 2020 9:40 am
There is a large industry I think that might find a use for these little guys if they didn't have the wifi embedded.
I can't see there being any any significant untapped market which wants to use a Pi without WiFi which could not use a Pi with WiFi. So I can't see producing a Pi board aimed at that being a sensible or commercially viable option for the Foundation.
Farnell / Element 14 offers a Pi customisation service which I imagine could include the removal of WiFi and would likely be the best route to go down.
Re: Remove the wireless card
Posted: Wed Jun 24, 2020 6:55 pm
by bjtheone
And of that small subset, you would have to remove, those that don't want WiFi and are happy with any of the software based methods of disabling it. If you are that stressed about it, just faraday cage that sucker.
Re: Remove the wireless card
Posted: Wed Jun 24, 2020 7:24 pm
by W. H. Heydt
hippy wrote: ↑Wed Jun 24, 2020 1:23 pm
imspyguy wrote: ↑Wed Jun 24, 2020 9:40 am
There is a large industry I think that might find a use for these little guys if they didn't have the wifi embedded.
I can't see there being any any significant untapped market which wants to use a Pi without WiFi which could not use a Pi with WiFi. So I can't see producing a Pi board aimed at that being a sensible or commercially viable option for the Foundation.
Farnell / Element 14 offers a Pi customisation service which I imagine could include the removal of WiFi and would likely be the best route to go down.
And, yet, Pi2Bs still sell.
Re: Remove the wireless card
Posted: Wed Jun 24, 2020 7:54 pm
by bensimmo
Only market I can think of is Cafe's and Thin Clients and possibly Schools, where they
may use Ethernet instead along with PoE. At which point you have a quite customised version, PoE onboard instead of WiFi/BT and drop the power connector.
But the I'm also assuming RPT know if there is a demand for it or if it too specialised.
AS a note to add tho this
You can now use
Code: Select all
dtoverlay=disable-wifi
dtoverlay=disable-bt
as they made a change to remove the Pi3 prefixes, since Pi4 and PiZero also use it.
Re: Remove the wireless card
Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 10:04 am
by Burngate
It strikes me as weird that the 3B / 3B+ / 4B have both WiFi and PoE, while the 2B has neither.
With the 4B, If you use PoE, WiFi is redundant; WiFi implies no cable so you'll have to provide power some other way.
With the 2B, either option needs desk-clutter.
That's without considering the down-sides of the 2B compared to later models.
Re: Remove the wireless card
Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 10:23 am
by drgeoff
Burngate wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2020 10:04 am
It strikes me as weird that the 3B / 3B+ / 4B have both WiFi and PoE, while the 2B has neither.
With the 4B, If you use PoE, WiFi is redundant; WiFi implies no cable so you'll have to provide power some other way.
With the 2B, either option needs desk-clutter.
That's without considering the down-sides of the 2B compared to later models.
I think the reason the 2B has neither was simply that at the time they could not be included within the $35 target.
The 3B does not have PoE capability. That did not come until the 3B+.
Re: Remove the wireless card
Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 10:30 am
by hippy
W. H. Heydt wrote: ↑Wed Jun 24, 2020 7:24 pm
And, yet, Pi2Bs still sell.
Indeed, but are they being bought by people who need a product which must not have WiFi or by people who don't need WiFi and are choosing it for other reasons, lower cost, habit, etc ?
I would never suggest there wouldn't be a market for a 4B without WiFi if cheaper; it's more the potential size of the market who must have a 4B without WiFi, cannot use 4B's with WiFi.
If the foundation produced a 4B without WiFi which cost the same as with WiFi; would they sell more 4B's ? I can't see it. Not enough to make it worthwhile doing it.
Re: Remove the wireless card
Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 10:33 am
by plugwash
Probablly sufficient to just remove the main wifi/bluetooth chip, no need to bother with the passives.
I could understand some high-security environments being uncomfortable about devices having unnessacery wifi radios around, even if they are disabled as an intruder could re-enable said radios.
Re: Remove the wireless card
Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 10:43 am
by bensimmo
All this talk of the Pi2.
The Pi2 is just an incremental model.
It has no WiFi/BT becasue it came before WiFi/BT was added.
It came before the PiZeroW and the Pi3
simples.
Pi2 released Feb 2015
a year later
P3 with the first WiFi/BT onboard Feb 2016
and another year later the Zero gained WiFi/BT Feb 2017
Re: Remove the wireless card
Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 12:38 pm
by hippy
bensimmo wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2020 10:43 am
The Pi2 is just an incremental model.
Yes, and the incremental nature of development, additions, and what the RPT were working on and when, can be seen from what was launched and when.
Maybe some E&OE -
Code: Select all
.--------------------------------------------------------------.
| |
| Zero ZW ZWH |
| B B+ |
| A A+ 3A+ |
| 2B 2B 1.2 |
| 3B 3B+ |
| 4B 4B8G |
| CM1 CM3 |
| |
|------|------|------|------|------|------|------|------|------|
| | | | | | | | | |
| 2012 | 2013 | 2014 | 2015 | 2016 | 2017 | 2018 | 2019 | 2020 |
| | | |
| | 40-pin | WiFi / Bluetooth |
`--------------------------------------------------------------'
I personally view the original 2B as a rather lacklustre affair. True, it's the first to have 4 cores and a bump in speed but still 32-bit and no new hardware features. I see it as a stop-gap or stepping stone to the 3B. The 2B Rev 1.2 merely the original with some lipstick slapped on it.
Re: Remove the wireless card
Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 12:55 pm
by jamesh
bensimmo wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2020 10:43 am
All this talk of the Pi2.
The Pi2 is just an incremental model.
It has no WiFi/BT becasue it came before WiFi/BT was added.
It came before the PiZeroW and the Pi3
simples.
Pi2 released Feb 2015
a year later
P3 with the first WiFi/BT onboard Feb 2016
and another year later the Zero gained WiFi/BT Feb 2017
This. Just part of product development, each model adds a few features!
Re: Remove the wireless card
Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 3:24 am
by W. H. Heydt
hippy wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2020 10:30 am
W. H. Heydt wrote: ↑Wed Jun 24, 2020 7:24 pm
And, yet, Pi2Bs still sell.
Indeed, but are they being bought by people who need a product which must not have WiFi or by people who don't need WiFi and are choosing it for other reasons, lower cost, habit, etc ?
Pi2B costs the same as the later boards, $35. The current Pi2Bv1.2 is, basically, a slowed down Pi3B with no WiFi, so the performance hit isn't a great as it might be. At the reduced default clock (900MHz), passive cooling with no heatsink is also an easy default.
If the foundation produced a 4B without WiFi which cost the same as with WiFi; would they sell more 4B's ? I can't see it. Not enough to make it worthwhile doing it.
I would buy at least 6 of them. Quite possibly more. But I will grant that I am probably an outlier in terms of market.
Re: Remove the wireless card
Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 3:26 am
by W. H. Heydt
hippy wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2020 12:38 pm
I personally view the original 2B as a rather lacklustre affair. True, it's the first to have 4 cores and a bump in speed but still 32-bit and no new hardware features. I see it as a stop-gap or stepping stone to the 3B. The 2B Rev 1.2 merely the original with some lipstick slapped on it.
The Pi2Bv1.2 is capable of USB MSD booting and running a 64-bit OS. That's pretty impressive lipstick.